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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/20/2014
Choice News MONDAY, FEB 25, 2013  |  63 comments  |  1 commentary
Study says too many Americans still drink too much
On any given day in the United States, 18 percent of men and 11 percent of women drink more alcohol than federal guidelines recommend, according to a study that also found that 8 percent of men and 3 percent of women are full-fledged "heavy drinkers."

That means the great majority of Americans stay within the advised limit of two drinks a day for men and one for women, according to the study that appeared in the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.

"And in fact, most adults don't drink at all on any given day," said lead author Patricia Guenther, a nutritionist at the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion. ...


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Americans still drink too much • 90+
Mohan Krishna | Garfield Ridge Baptist Church
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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 63 user comment(s)
News Item3/2/13 8:29 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Very interesting comments Lurker, and Mike concerning Proverbs being more about wise instructions rather than actual commands. So it's more like Solomon giving advice based upon his life experiences or what he saw going on around him with each day? Kind of like a parent trying to mold a child so they can avoid possible future troubles? Like, they are not actually saying, "don't do this or that!", but rather this is what is proper, this is what will get you through, this is what will cause you the least troubles, etc? Hopefully I made sense there. I understand John's logic concerning strong drink not being mentioned earlier, but also get Rufus as well.
I thought the entire Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit and thought that whether its Proverbs, or wherever, whenever we are told to do or not do something, it was to be taken as a command.
So Proverbs is basically a book which contains parental wisdom, not commands, that would simply be wise to follow but not sin to disregard, or pick and choose?
43

News Item3/2/13 12:40 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Rufus wrote:
The Proverbs are replete with commands/instructions/law. I encourage that we read them, believe them and obey them.
As an old king reflecting on the vanity of his life's work, I think Solomon instructed otherwise.

And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: ***Fear God, and keep his commandments:*** for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Eccl 12:9-14)

Read them? Of course.

Believe them? Sure, in their timeline. Believe that they are the work of the third king of Israel under the first covenant.

Obey them? Be careful. Solomon's house was the shadow. Christ's house, which we are, is the substance.

42

News Item3/1/13 4:03 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Proverbs 1:1-4
"The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion."

The proverbs are given for wisdom in living, not law. Every proverb won't necessarily apply to all people at all times, nor are they all commands. Some examples:

Proverbs 6:32-34 "But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.
For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance."

Should this be taken as a command to do vengeance?

Proverbs 14:20
"The poor is hated even of his own neighbour: but the rich hath many friends."

Who is hated more today, the rich or the poor?

Proverbs 22:29 "Seest thou a man diligent in his business? he shall stand before kings; he shall not stand before mean men."

Do all diligent businessmen stand before kings? I'd say most of them are robbed by "kings."

Proverbs are not always to be held as doctrine to be obeyed.

41

News Item3/1/13 3:18 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
So what the Proverbs don't apply to you?
Which one of the following Proverbs would you be inclined not to follow because they are not law?

I encourage that we read them, believe them and obey them.

Sure, no problem. If you want to obey the OT law, and you regard every OT book as OT law, carry on.

But Rufus, that leaves you with a dilemma. Although drunkenness was known way back in Genesis, you want to tell me that Jehovah waited until Solomon wrote some proverbs to give instruction concerning strong drink? And then God called that his "law" on drink? So that before Proverbs, there was no law on prohibiting strong drink?

I'm sorry, but I'm not following you on this. What about the actual law of God, found in Exodus and Leviticus?

40

News Item3/1/13 3:10 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, SteveR, there are too many of the Romish Magisterium who are drunks as well, Alcoholism claims priests too. I knew there were houses for them to dry out, before I read this article.

Also remember Cardinal Brian Keith?

The Guardian wrote:
In a third statement, "Priest B" claims that he was starting his ministry in the 1980s when he was invited to spend a week "getting to know" O'Brien at the archbishop's residence. His statement alleges that he found himself dealing with what he describes as unwanted behaviour by the cardinal after a late-night drinking session.
excerpt from, UK's top cardinal accused of 'inappropriate acts' by priests

The Magisterium has a drinking problem, among many others, Are We Really Catholic Bashing? (PDF)

39

News Item3/1/13 3:05 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
John UK wrote:
...
2. "The law" is not found in Proverbs. If strong drink is so anathema to God, where in his "law" does he condemn it?
...
So what the Proverbs don't apply to you?

Which one of the following Proverbs would you be inclined not to follow because they are not law?

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: ... 3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: ... 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. ... 9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

The Proverbs are replete with commands/instructions/law. I encourage that we read them, believe them and obey them.

38

News Item3/1/13 2:50 PM
SteveR | Upper Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
Rufus wrote:
There is a strong drink which the daughter's of Belial drink which the Godly Hannah would not drink.
1 Samuel 1:15 - And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. 16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
Returning to wine. Take a look at Proverbs 23:29-35. Look at how it rightly describes the plight of a drunkard and the symptoms of drunkenness. Now what is the command for how you are to deal with the drink that causes those things? "Look not thou upon the wine..." If we are not to look at it then surely we are not to drink it. If it is not alcoholic wine being described then what is it?
Rufus,
Eli thought Hannah was drunk while praying in the HOUSE OF THE LORD, her response was that she was not.

In context, it is more of a location specific response, then a wine specific prohibition response.

37

News Item3/1/13 2:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
There is a strong drink which the daughter's of Belial drink which the Godly Hannah would not drink.
1 Samuel 1:15 - And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. 16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
Returning to wine. Take a look at Proverbs 23:29-35. Look at how it rightly describes the plight of a drunkard and the symptoms of drunkenness. Now what is the command for how you are to deal with the drink that causes those things? "Look not thou upon the wine..." If we are not to look at it then surely we are not to drink it. If it is not alcoholic wine being described then what is it?
1. Fair point bro. But remember the Nazarite vow to abstain from strong drink, which would have been a nonsense unless normal Jews regularly used strong drink in moderation.

2. "The law" is not found in Proverbs. If strong drink is so anathema to God, where in his "law" does he condemn it?

3. Good point Mike. It is a fact that some of the early Lord's Supper meetings were disrupted by ... guess what .... drunkenness.

36

News Item3/1/13 2:15 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Jesus used new, fermenting wine as a metaphor for the gospel of grace. Would He use something evil to not only illustrate something good, but even draw a comparison between new wine and the gospel, if wine were intrinsically evil? No. Would He create a very picture of bottles bursting from fermenting wine, in the minds of his listeners, if He didn’t want them to even see it? No. Could He have used unfermenting wine for His parable? No! Unfermenting wine would not burst the bottles.

It should not be argued that the Lord forbids fermented wine. Is He opposed to Himself?

Luke 5:37,38
"And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved."

35

News Item3/1/13 2:13 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, John U.K., time to point out there too many people that are "all wet," on your side of the pond too! Alcohol abuse's hidden world (basically an audio file) Good commentary what happens to drinkers around the world -- and England.

American Tract Dictionary circa 1859 wrote:
Drunkenness

Is referred to in the Bible both in single instances and as a habit. Its folly is often illustrated, Ps 107:27 Isa 19:14 24:20 28:7,8, its guilt denounced, Isa 5:22, its ill results traced, 1Sa 25:36 1Ki 16:9 20:16, and its doom shown, 1Co 6:9,10. It is produced by wine, Ge 9:21 21:33 Jer 23:9 Eph 5:18, as well as by "strong drink," 1Sa 1:13-15 Isa 5:11. Hence the use of these was forbidden to the priests at the altar, Le 10:9; and all are cautioned to avoid them, Pr 20:1 23:20. To tempt others to drunkenness is a sin accursed of God, 2Sa 11:13 Hab 2:15,16. Its prevalence in a community is inseparable from the habitual use of any inebriating liquor. Hence the efforts made by the wise and good to secure abstinence from all intoxicating drinks, 1Co 8:13. See WINE.

34

News Item3/1/13 2:09 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
John UK wrote:
Thank you Frank, it seems clear to me also.
Besides, if sin is the "transgression of the law", then among the thousands of Jewish laws you would expect to find a prohibition law concerning strong drink.
I don't have PM's booklet about the subject.
There is a strong drink which the daughter's of Belial drink which the Godly Hannah would not drink.

1 Samuel 1:15 - And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. 16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.

Returning to wine. Take a look at Proverbs 23:29-35. Look at how it rightly describes the plight of a drunkard and the symptoms of drunkenness. Now what is the command for how you are to deal with the drink that causes those things? "Look not thou upon the wine..." If we are not to look at it then surely we are not to drink it. If it is not alcoholic wine being described then what is it?

33

News Item3/1/13 1:02 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Heh Pilgrim; your comments and thoughts are very good and they have been a blessing to me. I gave Rufus the following verses and my argument was that if something is a sin, then it is always a sin? It could be argued it is a sin of conscience like eating meat sacrificed to idols, etc., but then that would also refute Rufus' thoughts, if you think about it. With that in mind; the below scriptures are the nail in the coffin. I attended a church once where the Pastor said; "no alcohol will ever touch my lips" and I often wondered whether he ever used cough syrup. I think the confusion comes about when people who think drinking is a sin believes that somehow we are saying people should drink. I would never tell someone they should drink. Rufus, I am also enjoying your thoughts!
Proverbs 31:6. Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Thank you Frank, it seems clear to me also.

Besides, if sin is the "transgression of the law", then among the thousands of Jewish laws you would expect to find a prohibition law concerning strong drink.

I don't have PM's booklet about the subject.

32

News Item3/1/13 12:24 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
And where, Rufus, did these unwise Jewish drunkards get their strong drink from? Imported? Or home-grown?
Now what I would like to see is where our Lord tells his people not to produce any strong drink.
Heh Pilgrim; your comments and thoughts are very good and they have been a blessing to me. I gave Rufus the following verses and my argument was that if something is a sin, then it is always a sin? It could be argued it is a sin of conscience like eating meat sacrificed to idols, etc., but then that would also refute Rufus' thoughts, if you think about it. With that in mind; the below scriptures are the nail in the coffin. I attended a church once where the Pastor said; "no alcohol will ever touch my lips" and I often wondered whether he ever used cough syrup. I think the confusion comes about when people who think drinking is a sin believes that somehow we are saying people should drink. I would never tell someone they should drink. Rufus, I am also enjoying your thoughts!

Proverbs 31:6. Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

31

News Item3/1/13 11:37 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Ofinterest, thanks for the post. I think I'll check into your links as well as follow this thread to see where it goes. Proverbs seems to be going back and forth but I'll need to read everything in its proper context.
30

News Item3/1/13 11:29 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
I am now reminded me of another verse.
Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
And where, Rufus, did these unwise Jewish drunkards get their strong drink from? Imported? Or home-grown?

Now what I would like to see is where our Lord tells his people not to produce any strong drink.

29

News Item3/1/13 11:11 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
John UK wrote:
How about alcoholic white wine?
I am now reminded me of another verse.

Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

28

News Item3/1/13 10:30 AM
ofinterest  Find all comments by ofinterest
Should Christians Drink?
What are the biblical arguments which have convinced the majority of Bible believers during the last two centuries that the Lord wants His people to abstain? Are alcoholic drinks right or wrong for a Christian? Why should something ‘right’ for Old Testament Israelites be ‘wrong’ for Christ’s church? What are the differences between the wines of Bible times and those of today? All who seek to honour Christ and be blessed in His service will want to consider the case set out in this booklet for abstinence.
32 pages, booklet, ISBN 978 1 899046 37 9

http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/Sword-And-Trowel-1

http://www.tabernaclebookshop.org/should-christians-drink-condensed-edition.html

The above booklet will help understand a few important aspects often ignored and comes from the Pastor of Spurgeon's old church- so a booklet of serious thought when considering major differences in the alcoholic trade and epidemic consumption of the 21st century!

27

News Item3/1/13 10:28 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
Alright, let's use scripture only.
Proverbs 23:31 - Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
The wine I do not look at is alcoholic wine. What is the wine you do not look at?
How about alcoholic white wine?
26

News Item3/1/13 10:25 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
John UK wrote:
Hi Rufus, I didn't grasp your first point, but no matter.
On the second point, you seem to be applying logic or scientific arguments rather than scripture only. I would rather just take the text and accept it.
...
Alright, let's use scripture only.

Proverbs 23:31 - Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

The wine I do not look at is alcoholic wine. What is the wine you do not look at?

25

News Item3/1/13 9:53 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
He is saying do not drink alcoholic wine in this verse. He's not saying not to drink to excess he's saying wherein is excess. Having said that, there are warnings not to drink too much non-alcoholic wine as if one over consumes it can ferment in the body and cause drunkenness.
On the wedding, the moment one places alcohol to their lips their body is affected. This is something secular doctors will admit. Whether one drinks one drop or one gallon they are merely in different degrees of drunkenness. So are you advocating ...the guests had well drunk less potent alcohol and Jesus Christ brought them more potent alcohol? And do you still think this to be right behaviour our Lord? Every drunkard starts out with one drink, do you reckon Jesus Christ would be tempting folks with that second, third, fourth drink?
Hi Rufus, I didn't grasp your first point, but no matter.

On the second point, you seem to be applying logic or scientific arguments rather than scripture only. I would rather just take the text and accept it.

Think about the Nazarite vow not to drink strong drink. What purpose would such be if all the Jews were not to drink strong drink? It would be a nonsense.

24
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