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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/19/2014
Choice News THURSDAY, OCT 11, 2012  |  110 comments
CEO to Workers: I May Fire You if Obama Wins
David Siegel, the owner of Westgate Resorts, sent a surprising email to his employees Monday. It said that if President Barack Obama wins re-election and raises Siegel's taxes, he will have to lay off workers and downsize his company - or even shut it down.

"If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company," he wrote. "Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone."

In a version of Romney's "47 percent" remarks, Siegel added that "people like me who made all the right decisions and invested in themselves are being forced to bail out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed 42 years of my life for." ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
finance.yahoo.com

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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 110 user comment(s)
News Item10/25/12 2:15 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
In that case bro, I see you having problems with obedience scripturally.
If we cannot evaluate who the poor are, we shall never be able to obey God in relation to them.
No, for I just admitted that one could with subjective (imperfect) personal experience evaluate a poverty case satisfactorily. And if Paul & James said they knew about poor people, I believe them because they are Apostles. How readily you charge people with disobedience!

But I do have a problem with unsubstantiated, extrabiblical modern generalizations such as you seem to endorse. They aren't infallible Scripture!

Do you believe everyone who claims they are poor, esp. in welfare states such as we live in? Or if not, then what is your procedure, please, since you've told us you're a man of the streets, presumably wise in such things?

90

News Item10/25/12 2:05 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
jpw, you really, really should like the Bill Moyer's program, Full Show: United States of ALEC Either watch the show or read the transcript. We do have A Culture of Corruption and both parties are influenced by it.
89

News Item10/25/12 2:03 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
"I HEARD A STORY; I think it came from the North Country: A minister called upon a poor woman, intending to give her help; for he knew that she was very poor. With his money in his hand, he knocked at the door; but she did not answer. He concluded she was not at home, and went his way. A little after he met her at the church, and told her that he had remembered her need: "I called at your house, and knocked several times, and I suppose you were not at home, for I had no answer." "At what hour did you call, sir?" "It was about noon." "Oh, dear," she said, "I heard you, sir, and I am so sorry I did not answer; but I thought it was the man calling for the rent." Many a poor woman knows what this meant. Now, it is my desire to be heard, and therefore I want to say that I am not calling for the rent; indeed, it is not the object of this book to ask anything of you, but to tell you that salvation is all of grace, which means, free, gratis, for nothing."

What book? Probably one of the best books written on the subject of salvation by none other than Ingleesi!

All of Grace

88

News Item10/25/12 1:38 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
Mike -- gov and coorp ok concept when honest, like anything else...

that being said....

a contracting company helps lobbyist write bill for congress...

or when those who are hired by the people to oversee, lets say, food safety, have actually run the company spreading gm grains to many continents (food unsafety).

conservatives are hearing the communism v. corporatism lingo and not seeing that the two have merged.

and representation of the people is not in this.

it is a core issue of our day.

the printing press is done by an organization of bankers (private) that were given the responsibility in 1913 in cohn it was supposed to be run by gov. (the dollar has lost most all of its value now, China now selling oil with Yuan.) the bankers call themselves the FED -- but it is private. they have recently been given police powers for their security. They are not the federal gov but private bankers but execute the most powerful arm of the gov. are you seeing my point yet?

separation of powers has been erased. coorporations absorb business as well.

Eisenhower warned us. He knew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

Its military-industrial complex -- its right there, the two made one.

87

News Item10/25/12 12:59 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
If you know them that well, sure. If you're observing them, & they know it, you're assuming they're not putting you on. At any rate, they cannot be used to infer anything about the rest of the population, so again, it's a dead end. One cannot infer universals from particulars like this; that is a first-order philosophical problem that few people I have met seem to appreciate.
In that case bro, I see you having problems with obedience scripturally.

Romans 15:26 KJV
26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Paul had no difficulty analysing the poor.

Galatians 2:10 KJV
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

James 2:2 KJV
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

And so on.

If we cannot evaluate who the poor are, we shall never be able to obey God in relation to them.

86

News Item10/25/12 12:51 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
That is simple enough Neil. Let's say a family can sit down to eat three healthy meals every day, without concern about paying for them because of their healthy bank balance. Another family has one bread roll between them, and that was found on the dump, and no guarantee for tomorrow. Do you not agree that the latter family was poor?
If you know them that well, sure. If you're observing them, & they know it, you're assuming they're not putting you on. At any rate, they cannot be used to infer anything about the rest of the population, so again, it's a dead end. One cannot infer universals from particulars like this; that is a first-order philosophical problem that few people I have met seem to appreciate.
85

News Item10/25/12 12:43 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
But then, how do we measure the other part of the population?
That is simple enough Neil. Let's say a family can sit down to eat three healthy meals every day, without concern about paying for them because of their healthy bank balance. Another family has one bread roll between them, and that was found on the dump, and no guarantee for tomorrow. Do you not agree that the latter family was poor?
84

News Item10/25/12 12:26 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
Relative to what? Relative to the other part of the population.
But then, how do we measure the other part of the population? That is a can of worms. What it usually comes down to these days is gov't statistics, but statistics are inherently subjective & arbitrary, quite apart from the conflict of interest inherent in public & even private welfare organizations. There is also an incentive to misrepresent one's own financial state (cf. Total Depravity). Do any of these parties have an incentive to supply accurate figures?

The terms "poor" & "rich" are bandied about very often today by churchmen, the media, bureaucrats, NGOs & politicians, yet despite the perceived importance, hardly anyone asks for a defensible definition. Surely a subject this popular should have a rational basis.

83

News Item10/25/12 11:55 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
jpw, not to defend either, but who is the greater evil, gov or corp? Who has the backing of the military? Who the money printing press? Who the media? The worst the corp can do is get richer, esp if gov says it is too big to fail, or gov wants to take it over to promote a pathetic Chevy Volt, so as to pretend to save the planet from tailpipe fumes. There is no comparison. Governments absorb business, not the reverse.
82

News Item10/25/12 11:07 AM
squiggle  Find all comments by squiggle
John UK wrote:
I thought I was poor until I witnessed a group of children (their boss was a 12 yr-old-girl) who lived under a bridge in Dhakar and spent their life from dawn til dusk collecting refuse out of the river to sell to a recycling plant down river.
Perhaps America should vote for Obama, he helps the poor to get free abortions.
81

News Item10/25/12 10:48 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
jpw wrote:
Its all relative, so why define anything?
I thought I was poor until I witnessed a group of children (their boss was a 12 yr-old-girl) who lived under a bridge in Dhakar and spent their life from dawn til dusk collecting refuse out of the river to sell to a recycling plant down river.

I have had to consider terms since seeing that, and "relative" comes into it.

Some feel sorry for a man with no shoes, until they meet a man with no feet.

80

News Item10/25/12 10:35 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
God says: "love your neighbor"

The Pharasee says: "who's my neighbor?"

its all relative, so why define anything?

to one its a nutrient, to another a poison, why argue over semantics?

be sure that the Lord will judge for our false balances in this generation.

but in the meantime, who will love their neighbor?

I know one party will represent the gov, the other the corp, and we see the two merging in ways never seen in history.

yet, who will represent the next generation?

not the evangelical church?

Its a question that confounds the intelligent and is plain to the child, yes, plain to the child.

16 trillion given in bailouts, tens of millions spent to keep prop 37 from being successful, seeds that will run the food markets of millions of people -- that a farmer must continually rebuy because they self-suicide while those who eat it have to go the doctor and are sick....

these things are easily seen and understood by the simple-hearted.

campaigns paid for by foreign interests in the millions, when Joe is making $10 an hour. How many Joes does it take to make a commercial? The voice of the fisherman in Lousiana who is paid to spray Corexit over the seas because his fish are now full of oil and his life is shortened.

we've forgotten our own.

79

News Item10/25/12 9:45 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
Most discussions of wealth & poverty are in a Western context...
Most interesting debate, Neil.

If I live in the UK with my occupational pension I am relatively poor. But if I took that pension with me to India, I would live as a relatively rich man.

Relative to what? Relative to the other part of the population.

78

News Item10/25/12 1:41 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Phoebe wrote:
Well then, try Psalm 144.
Beyond that I can not help you in your pursuit.
If you think Psalm 144 is adequate, then you must know why. Please explain.

rhymnrzn wrote:
”And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.”
So everyone who has 2 lepta [mites] or less must be poor. How simple!
OK, So
1) What does that work out to in modern purchasing power? One website states it's about 1/64 of a day's wage. Do you agree?
2) Are there any Westerners who fit that definition of poor? Most discussions of wealth & poverty are in a Western context;
3) If someone has more than 2 lepta or equivalent, are they therefore rich?
77

News Item10/24/12 10:19 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
Neil wrote:
But you haven't defined "poor," either. If it's such child's play to answer my question, then find one & get back to me with his answer. Or better yet, find several. Then it'll be fun trying to reconcile their replies.
rhymnrzn, I have to wonder if you actually understood my question. I wasn't asking for another sermon, I was asking for a specific answer. What is "rich?" What are "much goods"?
Mark 12:41
"And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. (42) And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. (43) And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: (44) For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."

Acts 5:4
"Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

76

News Item10/24/12 10:15 PM
Phoebe  Find all comments by Phoebe
Neil wrote:
But you haven't defined "poor," either. If it's such child's play to answer my question, then find one & get back to me with his answer. Or better yet, find several. Then it'll be fun trying to reconcile their replies.
rhymnrzn, I have to wonder if you actually understood my question. I wasn't asking for another sermon, I was asking for a specific answer. What is "rich?" What are "much goods"?
Well then, try Psalm 144.
Beyond that I can not help you in your pursuit.
75

News Item10/24/12 10:00 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Phoebe wrote:
People find out what 'rich' means when they are poor. Are you that interested in semantics? Ask a child - they know.
But you haven't defined "poor," either. If it's such child's play to answer my question, then find one & get back to me with his answer. Or better yet, find several. Then it'll be fun trying to reconcile their replies.

rhymnrzn, I have to wonder if you actually understood my question. I wasn't asking for another sermon, I was asking for a specific answer. What is "rich?" What are "much goods"?

74

News Item10/24/12 9:51 PM
Phoebe  Find all comments by Phoebe
Neil: "So how then does one define "rich": relative to then, or now? And either way, by which metric? Net worth, gross income, net income, or what? If you cannot arrive at a universally acceptable & precise definition of "rich," then we're wasting our time here, for none of us know what we're talking about, including myself.

Why do you discuss the meaning of the word 'rich'? Will you ever arrive at a definition?
People find out what 'rich' means when they are poor. Are you that interested in semantics? Ask a child - they know.

73

News Item10/24/12 9:07 PM
rhymnrzn | dayton, ohio  Contact via emailFind all comments by rhymnrzn
.
Neil wrote:
So how then does one define "rich": relative to then, or now? And either way, by which metric? Net worth, gross income, net income, or what? If you cannot arrive at a universally acceptable & precise definition of "rich," then we're wasting our time here, for none of us know what we're talking about, including myself.
It's a far cry from "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things."(1Jn.2:20) and "but they that seek the LORD understand all things."(Pro.28:5) As a matter of where God justifies or condemns, it is written that we are expected according to what we have, to help along with them who keep covenant, and go into the world for teaching all men to keep the same commandments we are commanded with. The parable of the rich man, and when Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar to break off his sins by shewing mercy to the poor "if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquility" come instantly to mind for basic metrics.

Luke 12:19
"And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry."

72

News Item10/24/12 9:03 PM
watchwoman  Find all comments by watchwoman
What watchmen? They've killed the lot of them! If the woman and children don't get off their high-horses soon and roll up their unsoiled sleeves the whole church will be overrun in ... beeeeeeeeeep.
71
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