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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  5/29/2015
SUNDAY, MAR 11, 2012  |  45 comments
With tensions high in Mideast, evangelical Christians tighten embrace of Israel
Servants to Christ is one of scores of evangelical Christian organizations working in Israel on a variety of charitable missions. And its presence is just one example of the increasingly tight embrace of the Jewish state by both the leadership of American evangelical churches and organizations and their grass-roots supporters.

Pro-Israel rhetoric — fueled in part by increasing tensions in the Middle East over Iran's nuclear program and the threat it might pose to the Jewish state — is a staple of many U.S. evangelical leaders' speeches and sermons. ...


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worldnews.msnbc.msn.com

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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 45 user comment(s)
News Item3/12/12 1:21 PM
Pravda  Find all comments by Pravda
Neil wrote:
Or do they get a pass because they are victims of persecution? I've never heard of any Bible-believing church allowing an exemption like that.
That is very close to the truth, yes.
25

News Item3/12/12 1:01 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
SteveR wrote:
Rather than feel blessed that you understand that justification is by faith alone, you use it as a weapon against your brethren to puff yourself up? That is very unbecoming, as it implies the devil has been allowed to deceive you.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Then the Bible contradicts itself, since you're suggesting justification is off the table so far as saving faith is concerned. All you have to do is believe certain facts about Christ's person, which even devils can do.

By your simplistic understanding of 1 John 4, Paul was just as mean & divisive as I am, since his Epistle to the Galatians denounces those who, while being nominally Christians, added works of the Law to the Gospel, just as sacerdotal churches do. How can Paul say this if all one has to believe is that Jesus is God incarnate?

24

News Item3/12/12 12:43 PM
SteveR | Upper Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
Neil wrote:
Are you sure? Sounds pretty ecumenical since that would include Chaldean Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, Armenian Catholics, Syrian Catholics, Latin-Rite Catholics, et al. Perhaps you know better, but I do not think any of these teach Justification by Faith Alone. This is why I didn't call them Christians,
Rather than feel blessed that you understand that justification is by faith alone, you use it as a weapon against your brethren to puff yourself up? That is very unbecoming, as it implies the devil has been allowed to deceive you.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

23

News Item3/12/12 11:44 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
SteveR wrote:
All of them
Are you sure? Sounds pretty ecumenical since that would include Chaldean Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, Armenian Catholics, Syrian Catholics, Latin-Rite Catholics, et al. Perhaps you know better, but I do not think any of these teach Justification by Faith Alone. This is why I didn't call them Christians, but only people who identify themselves as such, which is not the same thing.

Or do they get a pass because they are victims of persecution? I've never heard of any Bible-believing church allowing an exemption like that.

22

News Item3/12/12 7:31 AM
SteveR | Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
Neil wrote:
How many Iraqis are the sort of Christians we would accept as members in our churches?
All of them
21

News Item3/11/12 10:34 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Matthew wrote:
…Seems like the Faith has been but significantly in Iraq since 2003. That's outside the scope of Israel, but an example of evangelical short-sightedness.
How many Iraqis are the sort of Christians we would accept as members in our churches? It seems to me most are sacerdotalists.

It is ironic, & tragic, that a consequence of our ”blessing” Israel with diplomatic support, vast amounts of welfare (foreign aid) & indirectly, military intervention, we have *cursed* those identifying themselves with Christ in the region, hastening their extinction (by murder if not emigration) because they are unfairly identified by Muslims & nationalists with American imperialism.

Israel was well able to defend itself in its 1st 25 yrs. of existence w/o American support; which was it then, blessing or cursing? But Nixon's Operation Nickel Grass in 1973 changed everything, & brought on our first energy crisis.

20

News Item3/11/12 5:03 PM
Matthew | USA  Find all comments by Matthew
Sorry, I meant "has been cut in half significantly."
19

News Item3/11/12 5:01 PM
Matthew | USA  Find all comments by Matthew
Racist in regard to unconditional support. I know of no standard evangelicals use to determine their level of support. Never have I heard (until now with Mr. Lincoln), any analysis of who our foreign policy could affect Christians in the Middle East. Seems like the Faith has been but significantly in Iraq since 2003. That's outside the scope of Israel, but an example of evangelical short-sightedness.
18

News Item3/11/12 4:57 PM
SteveR | Upper Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
theWayPA wrote:
Perhaps you should have asked for clarification of my reply first, of which I apologize if I was not as clear as I could have been. I thought you were spiritualizing the term "Hebrew" to refer to believers in these areas. I am aware of the Ashkenazim (of which part of my family belongs), the Sephardim, and the Ethiopian Jewish community (I will admit, Mizrahim sounds new to me, but I am guessing it has to do with Egypt, and Cochin is also new to me). Thus why I said I didn't understand your point. I am Jewish, and I would never claim Mormons or Black Hebrews as true Hebrews. and I don't appreciate you condescending to me in your reply, and if I condescended to you, I am truly sorry (looking at my response, I fear I might have. I apologize…)
Matthew, supporting Israel is not tantamount to racism immediately as you seem to imply. Please elaborate...
Where do I begin with someone who thinks Gods people could be annihilated?

Worse, who would support shedding blood to justify their dispensational heresies?

17

News Item3/11/12 4:51 PM
theWayPA | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by theWayPA
SteveR wrote:
Thank you for your reply, however, your response implies such an ignorance of Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Mizrahim, Cochin, and African Jewish Evangelical history, it would be far easier to convince you Mormons or Black Panthers were Hebrew than the actual truth.
Perhaps you should have asked for clarification of my reply first, of which I apologize if I was not as clear as I could have been. I thought you were spiritualizing the term "Hebrew" to refer to believers in these areas. I am aware of the Ashkenazim (of which part of my family belongs), the Sephardim, and the Ethiopian Jewish community (I will admit, Mizrahim sounds new to me, but I am guessing it has to do with Egypt, and Cochin is also new to me). Thus why I said I didn't understand your point. I am Jewish, and I would never claim Mormons or Black Hebrews as true Hebrews. and I don't appreciate you condescending to me in your reply, and if I condescended to you, I am truly sorry (looking at my response, I fear I might have. I apologize…)
Matthew, supporting Israel is not tantamount to racism immediately as you seem to imply. Please elaborate...
16

News Item3/11/12 4:50 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Matthew, no doubt there are people who are nominal Christians in the Middle East that we should help, and helping Israel is one of the best ways of doing it, 'Israel is only safe state for Mideast Christians'. It is the Islamist who is persecuting Christians The Beleaguered Christians of The Palestinian-Controlled Areas and The forgotten Christians of the East. One way not to forget these persecuted groups is by supporting Israel.
15

News Item3/11/12 4:43 PM
SteveR | Upper midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
theWayPA wrote:
I agree that we need to remember that Rom. 1:16 says that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first and also the Gentile. No one should be a spiritual ally with those allied against the Gospel, but how about defending a group of people, God's chosen nation from whom Messiah came, who are being threatened with annihilation from the "Hebrew-blooded" areas of Palestine and Iran (I think this comment is incredible, sorry to say; do you intend to mean that those in Israel aren't Hebrew? I don't understand). BTW, Palestine is in Israel's given territory which was given not only by God, but by the world community after the Holocaust.
Thank you for your reply, however, your response implies such an ignorance of Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Mizrahim, Cochin, and African Jewish Evangelical history, it would be far easier to convince you Mormons or Black Panthers were Hebrew than the actual truth.
14

News Item3/11/12 4:42 PM
Matthew | USA  Find all comments by Matthew
The Israelite people may yet have a role in the future, but they'd still be in Christ's One Bride. We don't have to support that nation indiscriminately. The claimed future "unblinding" doesn't excuse bad actions by evangelicals in the present. There are Christians in the middle east to whom we owe supreme loyalty, Jews and Greeks. Racism cuts two ways.
13

News Item3/11/12 4:33 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
SteveR, you seem to be an individual or perhaps even a member of The Churches Against Israel. Now of course, many Christians have a good reason To be thought of Christian Zionists: The Real Terrorists. However, Islam is an enemy of Christianity,Like It Or Not, The War We Fight Is Against Islam. We have an aircraft carrier permanently stationed in the Middle East called Israel, One that has contributed greatly to the world by the way, Israel's Contributions. So, it doesn't matter one iota if the present day Israel is not living up to either it's old or New Testament responsibilities to God, because God's promises to it are not predicated on Israel's behavior What About God's Promises to Israel?
12

News Item3/11/12 4:27 PM
theWayPA | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by theWayPA
SteveR wrote:
Evangelicals really need to read their Bibles more, and their war mongering propaganda less. How many generations of Israelis must enter perdition before Evangelicals supply them with missionaries instead of tanks?
Why self styled Evangelicals have become spiritual allies with those grafted into the thornbush of what is now called judaism is theologically frightening. People, please remember that the pharisic religion was an evangelical religion for many centuries, and today there is more Hebrew blood flowing in Palestine, Syria, Iraq and Iran than the European colony called Israel.
I agree that we need to remember that Rom. 1:16 says that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first and also the Gentile. No one should be a spiritual ally with those allied against the Gospel, but how about defending a group of people, God's chosen nation from whom Messiah came, who are being threatened with annihilation from the "Hebrew-blooded" areas of Palestine and Iran (I think this comment is incredible, sorry to say; do you intend to mean that those in Israel aren't Hebrew? I don't understand). BTW, Palestine is in Israel's given territory which was given not only by God, but by the world community after the Holocaust.
11

News Item3/11/12 4:16 PM
SteveR | Upper Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
Evangelicals really need to read their Bibles more, and their war mongering propaganda less. How many generations of Israelis must enter perdition before Evangelicals supply them with missionaries instead of tanks?

Why self styled Evangelicals have become spiritual allies with those grafted into the thornbush of what is now called judaism is theologically frightening. People, please remember that the pharisic religion was an evangelical religion for many centuries, and today there is more Hebrew blood flowing in Palestine, Syria, Iraq and Iran than the European colony called Israel.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

10

News Item3/11/12 4:02 PM
theWayPA | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by theWayPA
Neil wrote:
”God blesses those who bless the Jews and curses whoever curses the Jews…”
American evangelicals have become ”useful idiots” for unbelieving Israel.
What did Christians do during the Jewish Wars? Did they ”have the Jews' back“ during the Siege of Jerusalem? No; so far as anyone knows, they obeyed Christ & skipped town.
Right, because it is utter madness to defend a people who are constantly villianized, demonized, and treated with utter contempt for just being Jewish from the tyranny of a professing, fake church (those false professors from Rome and Protestantism), maniacal Islam, Nazi-facism, pogroms, and others as well. I wonder if it would have been obeying Christ for the citizens of Auschwitz to skip town as well and let the Nazis have their way. Don't get me wrong, secular Israel is NOT a believing state, and no one should just blindly support everything they do. And if you do not agree with the dispensational interpretation of Gen. 12:3, fair enough. But to refer to EVERY evangelical as "useful idiots" for Israel (btw, why are they "useful?" Don't tell me that you've bought the ant-semitic lie that Jews are all trying to take over the world) is borderline anti-semitic and I expect more from servants of Messiah!
9

News Item3/11/12 3:59 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Neil, you should read the article by an anti-dispensationalist, Think-Israel. Because even he pointed out that:

Genesis 12
2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."---NASB

So it is not just dispensationalists such as my pastor, e.g., Does God Have a Future for Israel?: A Study of Romans 11 or Tom Ice,
Lovers of Zion: A Brief History of Christian Zionism.

Yes, Christians are the wild olive branches that are grafted into the Jewish root. The long history of anti-Semitic practices of the Romish church is well-known, q.v.,
Israel: The Center of Divine History and The World Council of Churches - WCC

8

News Item3/11/12 2:51 PM
And  Find all comments by And
Neil wrote:
No one is justified by works of the Law, Gal. 2:16.
Yes. No one is justified by [the ceremonial] works of the Law, Gal. 2:16.

If we don't follow (obey) Jesus and His Word every day of our lives (future faith), how can we be ultimately saved?

7

News Item3/11/12 2:07 PM
Russ | Texas  Find all comments by Russ
Never mind I misread. I agree with you. Carry on ;-)
6
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