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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/21/2014
TUESDAY, MAR 5, 2013  |  81 comments  |  1 commentary
Ohio court spars on science teacher's creationist lessons

State Supreme Court justices sparred with lawyers on Wednesday in a heated hour of arguments over the extent to which a now-fired public school science teacher had the right to push his religious beliefs in class.

A lawyer for the school board that dismissed John Freshwater in 2011 said he waved a Bible at his students, handed out religious pamphlets and espoused creationism in his evolution lessons.

Freshwater's attorney, Rita Dunaway, said accounts of Freshwater's class conduct were exaggerated and he was exercising his academic freedom to explore controversial ideas.

She said the board's decision to dismiss Freshwater showed hostility toward religion. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 81 user comment(s)
News Item3/10/13 7:48 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Huff Puff to goodbooks wrote:
You're sounding like a frustrated book seller with an agenda.
And you're sounding like an off-beam wacko.
81

News Item3/10/13 3:22 PM
Huff Puff  Find all comments by Huff Puff
goodbooks wrote:
Thank you, brother! Kind of you.
You may be interested that Spurgeon's Old Church has a Pastor with 'A READ FOR THE LORD' scheme.
He states: "Read and be challenged"
"Your first priority throughout life is to read God’s Word. Other reading must never raid Bible reading time. Only the Word is infallible and authoritative, and all other books are good only as they promote Bible understanding and application."
see
His recommendations are in two lists:
"Start Up List/Sequel List"
here
I suspect the poster 'with respect' will have a coronary, but I am happy to by-pass his strange comments.
If the Baptist Confession 1689 is biblical then 'sound' books have to be the consensus of more than one mere individual like feeble-minded me!
We know that one can never read books & hold to the infallibility of Holy Scripture, yet still be unsound and wrongly apply scripture.
Good books are simply that..GOOD BOOKS!
A Presbyterian might disagree with the books on Baptism!
You're sounding like a frustrated book seller with an agenda.
80

News Item3/10/13 2:20 PM
Not so  Find all comments by Not so
goodbooks wrote:
....Good books are simply that..GOOD BOOKS!
There is only one Good Book! All others are admixtures of good and bad!!!
79

News Item3/10/13 1:25 PM
goodbooks  Find all comments by goodbooks
Christopher000 wrote:
Goodbooks,
Thanks again for the links, reviews, etc..
Thank you, brother! Kind of you.

You may be interested that Spurgeon's Old Church has a Pastor with 'A READ FOR THE LORD' scheme.

He states: "Read and be challenged"

"Your first priority throughout life is to read God’s Word. Other reading must never raid Bible reading time. Only the Word is infallible and authoritative, and all other books are good only as they promote Bible understanding and application."
see

His recommendations are in two lists:
"Start Up List/Sequel List"
here

I suspect the poster 'with respect' will have a coronary, but I am happy to by-pass his strange comments.

If the Baptist Confession 1689 is biblical then 'sound' books have to be the consensus of more than one mere individual like feeble-minded me!

We know that one can never read books & hold to the infallibility of Holy Scripture, yet still be unsound and wrongly apply scripture.

Good books are simply that..GOOD BOOKS!

A Presbyterian might disagree with the books on Baptism!

78

News Item3/10/13 7:50 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Goodbooks,
Thanks again for the links, reviews, etc. Very nice of you to take thw time, do the research, etc. Thank you.
I followed the conversation and understand it. For me, supplimenting with books is important to put some of the more difficult things into perspective, to make sense out of things, etc.
On the other hand, I also understand how a biased book can lead one to take a left instead of a right.
I will read carefully but always let the Bible be the final say.
77

News Item3/8/13 11:37 PM
Kyle | Tucson  Find all comments by Kyle
From what I read in the article, the teacher is actually in the wrong. It's not a simple case of a teacher being forbidden to acknowledge the existence of credible opposing hypotheses.

Burning crosses into students' arms? proselytizing? How did he think it would end?

76

News Item3/8/13 8:54 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
goodbooks wrote:
Yes and the author John Bunyan also said:
'God, in Whose hands are all our days and ways, did cast into my hand (one day) a book of Martin Luther’s; it was his Comment on the Galatians...Now I was pleased much that such an old book had fallen into my hand, the which when I had but a little way perused, I found my condition in his experience so largely and profoundly handled, as if his book had been written out of my heart...I do prefer this book of Martin Luther upon the Galatians (excepting the Holy Bible) before all the books that ever I had seen, as most fit for a wounded conscience.' Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners (Paragraphs. 129-130).
William Holland, a commercial painter, called on Charles and ***gave him a copy of Luther's Commentary*** Read how Holland was converted and Charles and John Wesley were challenged (converted?) by the same "a very precious treasure that I had found."
good book
I was speaking about good books for a 'Christian'- whether already convinced or not would such a gift, in God's mercy, be profitable?
Very interesting info, gb. Da Iawn, and ta muchly.
75

News Item3/8/13 5:05 PM
goodbooks  Find all comments by goodbooks
With respect wrote:
In pilgrims progress what books did pilgrim have...He travelled light & carried just the one book that mattered!
Yes and the author John Bunyan also said:
'God, in Whose hands are all our days and ways, did cast into my hand (one day) a book of Martin Luther’s; it was his Comment on the Galatians...Now I was pleased much that such an old book had fallen into my hand, the which when I had but a little way perused, I found my condition in his experience so largely and profoundly handled, as if his book had been written out of my heart...I do prefer this book of Martin Luther upon the Galatians (excepting the Holy Bible) before all the books that ever I had seen, as most fit for a wounded conscience.' Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners (Paragraphs. 129-130).

William Holland, a commercial painter, called on Charles and ***gave him a copy of Luther's Commentary*** Read how Holland was converted and Charles and John Wesley were challenged (converted?) by the same "a very precious treasure that I had found."
good book

I was speaking about good books for a 'Christian'- whether already convinced or not would such a gift, in God's mercy, be profitable?

74

News Item3/8/13 11:39 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
One might suppose it could be difficult to explain for those who do not see all the unregenerate as the ungodly of which Paul speaks.
Difficult but not impossible, Mike.

Note,

Romans 5:6 KJV
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Here is the limitation, Christ only died for the ungodly.

Note,

Isaiah 53:5 KJV
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The limitation again, Christ died for trangressors who committed iniquity.

So when you explain the text to the unsaved, they mostly say, "Well that has nothing to do with me, because I AM NOT a sinner, a transgressor, and I do not commit iniquity."

Thus, the non-elect shoot themselves in the foot, and reject the only hope men have of eternal salvation. Christ died for the ungodly who acknowledge themselves ungodly. And they will never do that until enlightened by the Spirit of God.

The only alternative is that our Lord paid a horrible price for the sins of all men, and then horrible unbelieving men paid the price over again in hell, and that forever.

73

News Item3/8/13 11:17 AM
My word  Find all comments by My word
Mike wrote:
One might suppose it could be difficult to explain for those who do not see all the unregenerate as the ungodly of which Paul speaks.
Categories we have are:

1. ungodly unregenerate but elect
2. ungodly unregenerate but not elect (hence the reprobates)
3. godly unregenerate but elect
4. godly unregenerate but not elect (also reprobates)
5. ungodly regenerate who will make it by the skin of their teeth.
6. godly regenerate who will have all the tea and biscuits in heaven.

Any other categories?

72

News Item3/8/13 10:37 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
For most unregenerate souls, what they need is to have the Bible explained to them, because being unregenerate they are viewing with unenlightened eyes. We might love the text which says, "Christ died for the ungodly", but the unsaved person needs to be told what it means.
One might suppose it could be difficult to explain for those who do not see all the unregenerate as the ungodly of which Paul speaks.
71

News Item3/8/13 8:59 AM
goodbooks  Find all comments by goodbooks
With respect wrote:
It is after all the Bible which is called the sword of the Spirit, not Pink, or Ryle or Spurgeon.
Though these men may be of help along the way, being fallible they may also hinder your understanding, if you do not check critically everything that they write.
I agree, just as much as you or I or any poster on SA might unintentionally hinder others.

But because they 'might' hinder...that wouldn't stop me sending a sinner to the Metropolitan tabernacle or a fundamentalist Arminian, either!

Granting these men might be a help along the way, what makes you think that they can not be an instrument of help BEFORE someone has considered a particular aspect of Holy Scripture?

You know they can, in God's wonderful Sovereignty.

So we agree! Do you check critically your own Pastor when he preaches. I know you do! How about several years ago when you were just a little lamb? Did Pastor ever bring up something from scripture that you had never previously considered or you had wrongly divided the word of Truth?

I know your Berean spirit would have searched the word AFTER! So God uses instruments BEFORE you thought about such? Yes, we agree at last

Thanks John!!

70

News Item3/8/13 8:45 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
With respect wrote:
Me thinks you knew that already.
Ah well...back to ....what was I doing?
Brother, we always are needing to hear the same things over and over. Fallen man regenerate is still under par, despite his right standing with God. Keep up the good work!

Now, what was I doing? Ah yes, trying to finish off a painting.

I hope your posting is not getting glitches.
_____________

Goodbooks
I think your comments are also very valid. In fact, I think some tract companies make a mistake in producing tracts which are scriptures only on a particular subject. For most unregenerate souls, what they need is to have the Bible explained to them, because being unregenerate they are viewing with unenlightened eyes. We might love the text which says, "Christ died for the ungodly", but the unsaved person needs to be told what it means.

69

News Item3/8/13 8:43 AM
goodbooks  Find all comments by goodbooks
With respect wrote:
this now colors how you think the Lord should deal with everyone else
Methinks you must like a debate, brother; did I really suggest the above or that the Bible is not all sufficient in my posts ? Or certain other things you implied.
I believe many Biblicists post mini-sermonettes(some could fill a book!)on SA as they believe they are Bible Based helps. We have sound pastors and teachers who preach the word and write extended sermons themselves as helps in book form.
I believe you are illogically mistaken if you do not believe a sound book will not challenge an individual BEFORE they have even considered an aspect of a particular doctrine. Just like sitting on a pew and Pastor introduces something you had not previously considered.
To clarify I posted to Christopher suggesting books that might be a help on the Sovereignty of God. I did mention to be a berean and that we need God's grace..do we agree that even Biblicists require God's grace to open our eyes. God in His Sovereignty often chooses to use books which are scripture sermons too. I am sorry we disagree and thank God that He has given you much insight and understanding of His word.

I gave a personal example as God will always care for His feeble lambs.

68

News Item3/8/13 8:17 AM
Moderator Alpha  Protected NameFind all comments by Moderator Alpha
With respect wrote:
I am under SA ban. What have I said that someone found offensive? Anyone able to shed any light on this please?
I doubt you have been banned. Send an email from the contact link at the bottom of the User Comments page with a brief explanation of what happened and someone will help you sort it out.
67

News Item3/8/13 7:51 AM
With respect  Find all comments by With respect
I am under SA ban. What have I said that someone found offensive? Anyone able to shed any light on this please?

_____________________

John UK wrote:
And I have just learnt that by reading the words of a man.
Me thinks you knew that already.

Ah well...back to ....what was I doing?

66

News Item3/8/13 7:08 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
With respect wrote:
Agreed John. What a sad state of affairs.

You need to change that brother!
If you want to see and hear Christ each day, then better to read/study his word

And I have just learnt that by reading the words of a man.

But in the course of a day, much reading is undertaken, and I am comparing the quotas of reading. For example, I read many books to assist my improvement in the world of art; sometimes I read a novel; very occasionally I might read a newspaper, and then there are the bills to sort out, catalogues etc. Now if I was to read at least the equivalent number of words in the Bible, it may amount to twenty or so chapters every day, maybe forty chapters.

I used to follow the Murray McCheyne Bible calendar for many years, but alas, I cannot even do that nowadays. The spirit is willing but the flesh gets tired.

65

News Item3/8/13 6:54 AM
With respect  Find all comments by With respect
John UK wrote:
Yep, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with all that. And I have argued the point myself on more than one occasion.

The great problem with reading books of men, is that of errancy. When you have the Bible, you have the inerrant word of the living God.

Another great problem is that of elevating men to a position higher than they ought to have. So much so, that theological systems are named after them, even though scripture bans it.

Agreed John. What a sad state of affairs.

John UK wrote:
I once tried to analyse my own reading, and discovered that I read the words of men far more than the words of God and, truth be told, I still do.
You need to change that brother!

If you want to see and hear Christ each day, then better to read/study his word

64

News Item3/8/13 6:39 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
With respect wrote:
There are many helps along the way John, praise the Lord. But, if you are not familiar with the one book that matters, how do you know what is a help and what is a hinderance?
In conversion, the Lord does use many means to search out souls.
My concern is that once converted, believers are being urged to read a plethora of books and the Bible does not feature large on the list - if at all!
Once the rule was master your bible and read other books as an aid to master the book. Nowadays however, believers seem to read theology and other Christian books and neglect the Bible. How does that edify anyone?
Yep, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with all that. And I have argued the point myself on more than one occasion.

The great problem with reading books of men, is that of errancy. When you have the Bible, you have the inerrant word of the living God.

Another great problem is that of elevating men to a position higher than they ought to have. So much so, that theological systems are named after them, even though scripture bans it.

I once tried to analyse my own reading, and discovered that I read the words of men far more than the words of God and, truth be told, I still do.

63

News Item3/8/13 6:21 AM
With respect  Find all comments by With respect
John UK wrote:
..Now the instruction given by Evangelist could have been verbal, or a little tract, or even a book or booklet. In this modern age, it could even have been a CD with a gospel sermon by Peter Masters, or a USB stick with several sermons on it, or a link to EternityWhere.
There are many helps along the way John, praise the Lord. But, if you are not familiar with the one book that matters, how do you know what is a help and what is a hinderance?

In conversion, the Lord does use many means to search out souls.

My concern is that once converted, believers are being urged to read a plethora of books and the Bible does not feature large on the list - if at all!

Once the rule was master your bible and read other books as an aid to master the book. Nowadays however, believers seem to read theology and other Christian books and neglect the Bible. How does that edify anyone?

62
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