.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.
Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!
Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islamâ€™s violent and extreme movements....
PursuitofTruth wrote: Dear Michael, Do you think all Calvanists are one eyed?
PoT Are you trying to be funny?
Of course not, only the 'one eyed ones'
But since John UK responded to your post, let me expand abit on 'one eyed Calvinists'...This is my opinion
"One eyed Calvinists" do great damage to Christians, in that they all too often influence Christians, even those who are much more like Whitefield and Spurgeon in their theology (Calvinism) to bow down to them, or walk on egg shells around them, they are bullies who like to beat up on others to have their way
and sometimes to avoid a fight people avoid standing up to them because often such a fight hijacks the thread away from any useful discussion, and people are robbed from a great deal of encouragement they could have had in matters really important to them
John has just mentioned the sovereignty of God and human responsibility, 'one eyed Calvinists' likely won't hear of such a thing from a non-Calvinist with their 'selective hearing' (I am called an Arminian, I'm not) but will lap it up if some famous Calvinist spoke or wrote about the very same thing.
Basically it is more important to them to convert someone to John Calvin than to Jesus Christ
Super Dad wrote: I hope our brother Michael Hranek and many of the other people you guys have had to put up with on this form learn something from your words!
And it would be great if all of us could learn something from Bro Michael, in making Christ have the pre-eminence rather than Calvinism. I have heard many good sermons from reformed men, and after the message, all I could think about was glorifying Christ in all his offices and wonder.
I think Noyes is just full of noise! Thumbs up P.O Truth, JayJay, and BibleSays...! I hope our brother Michael Hranek and many of the other people you guys have had to put up with on this form learn something from your words!
PursuitofTruth wrote: Yes, agreed John UK! I was just joking about Mr. Hranek thinking all Calvanists are one eyed! Though, due to the frequent usage of that term in his posts, it isn't to hard to come to that conclusion.
Aye aye, well a Christian with both eyes open has one eye on the sovereignty of the Lord and the other eye on the responsibility of the sinner. One without the other makes one a one-eyed heretic. Truth and Error are very close by each other.
PursuitofTruth wrote: Thank you John UK! So then apperently our friend Michael Hranek believes all Calvanists are "one eyed"!
I don't think so, but you'll have to ask Bro Michael about that. There aren't so many one-eyed, lopsided Christians about nowadays. Balance is crucial, of which "Unprofitable Servant" is a good example.
How about that dear "Calvinist" is your "one eyed god of predestinationism" able to do such a thing? Speak to men in words that actually say what He means and mean what He says? Words people can understand? Even hear of the 10 Commandments?
Yes, I've heard of the Ten Commandments. But I'm sure you've also heard of how God has always existed! You can't exactly wrap your head around the fact that God has always existed, or the fact that He's three equal and seperate beings in one now can you? Yes you can say it, but can you fully understand or comprehend it? No. Three things are clearly evidenced by scripture 1. God ordains everything that happens 2. He is not responsible for our sin, and 3. Punishments and consequences for that sin still remain. Is this impossible for our fallen, human minds to fully understand or comprehend? Yes. Is it wrong because we don't fully understand or comprehend it? No.
PursuitofTruth wrote: P.S. Where did you get this "one eyed" thing?
PoT, this is an ongoing argument which surfaces every so often, and is very much the most heated one of the lot, so I will help you out here, and it will be interesting to see which direction you go with it.
A one-eyed Calvinist is a lopsided Calvinist. He rightly sees the complete sovereignty of God, but does not accept that man does anything in the process of being saved. Thus, one-eyed preaching never exhorts the sinner to turn away from his sins to the God who can save him and forgive him. He is never exhorted to place his trust in Jesus Christ as his righteousness. He is never encouraged to receive Christ as his Lord and Saviour.
Thus it is no more or less than HyperCalvinism, which belief is now almost extinct in the world through lack of converts.
However, Moniker Man is very much of this persuasion, a bit like The Last of the Mohicans. His Calvinism is so harsh and cold that he annoys all on the threads with his doctrinaire posts and WCF quotations.
In contrast to this, is the moderate Calvinism of Charles Spurgeon, J. C. Ryle and George Whitefield, all of whom are warm and endearing in their speech and attitude towards the lost. Hope this helps.
Calvanists are not "elect chosen pharisees" and that is just a nice neat little moniker you made up. We CAN'T do anything about our salvation according to scripture, it is only God who can bring our sinful hearts to love him! So we as humans are POWERLESS when it comes to salvation.
That's not something a Calvanist would say. Just so the record is clear I'm a Calvanist, and I would not go say to that to that woman. Rather, I would recognize that God had brought her to that place of repentance and that He was saving her. Yes, we are held responsible for our actions, but that does not change the fact that God controls our every step according to Jeremiah 10:23. You and many others have argued that God does not control our every action, and it is for this that I want some one to try to use scripture to support.
PursuitofTruth wrote: P.S. No one thus far has tried to use scripture to support the antithesis: that we control our own salvation, and our own destiny! Maybe you should be the first to use scripture rather than opinion.
Dear PoT Please take a breath We already know, or at least should know, you are quite capable of putting words into someone else's mouth that they didn't say, isn't that right?
Again you haven't really listened have you. I never, did you get that, never and by the grace of God will never say anything less than or different than
Salvation requires a supernatural work that only God can and must do to save sinners from their sins
But such amazing grace does not divorce effort from the matter, if anything the grace of God ought to rightly motivate and produce great effort in those desperately needing the mercy and forgivness of God
Ever hear of the woman who came univited to the dinner where Jesus was? Now some sanctimonious "one eyed Calvinist" might have said something to her like:
'If God wants to save you He will and if He doesn't you will burn in hell and there aint nothing you can do about it, oh by the way I am one of the elect choosen Pharisees, not a sinner like you.'
Read the scriptture Michael Hranek! God compares us to sheep multiple times in the Bible, so I will use this example. Doeas a sheep understand every word his shepherd utters? No. But he still trusts in his shepherd and follows him wherever he leads. Maybe you should do the same.
And by the way where did you get this silly one eyed God thing? God isn't the one eyed, one horned, flying, purple people eater!