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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  11/27/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 23, 2014  |  247 comments  |  1 commentary
Patheos: Calvinism = Wahhabism?

.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.

Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!

Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islam’s violent and extreme movements. ...


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Page 1 | Page 8 ·  Found: 247 user comment(s)
News Item7/26/14 1:14 AM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Ladybug...
If only you would stick to the teachings found in scripture, but you have already left them behind to follow Calvin and men such as him who have tickled your ears. I showed you from scripture that the gift of God is eternal life and you say I haven't proved anything. If you don't believe in God's word, I am not surprised you would believe in a false teaching such as Calvinism.
107

News Item7/26/14 12:57 AM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
So,I am to take your 'commentary' on Ephesians 2:8-9 as though it came straight from God?! I'll stick with the teachings found in the original language and grammar sentence construction. I am sure it is much more accurate than your interpretation, which is based on nothing more than your opinion. I do hope in time, God brings you to learn how to study the bible, not just read into it your own personal views. Your practice of eisegesis is so very dangerous.
Actually, I am not saying anything, the text says it all. Not sure where the word 'it' comes from, it's not in the original manuscripts. Read those passages in a KJV, RV or ASV bible and you'll see what I mean.

You also say ' But only the faithful will have a part in the regeneration, as scripture says'...you did read the definition I provided for that didn't you? How does that fit into your arguing that faith is from man? As I stated, you pulled that verse out of context and proved nothing. Here's a question for you, in James 2:19, it says the demons believe, which is pisteuo in the Greek. Faith in Eph. is pistis in the Greek, which is the root word for believe in James. So, will demons be in heaven as well J4J? After all, they profess there is one God, & that Jesus is God's Son, the Holy One of Israel. What's the diff?

106

News Item7/26/14 12:39 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Ladybug...
Surprise, surprise, it is only some Calvinist who ever insist on the interpretation that "it" is faith. Not to mention you stubbornly resist the fact that Jews were claiming salvation by works. God is saying here salvation is not by works. "It" is by grace and through faith. Do you believe people magically teleport into buildings and then walk through the front door? That is what you are saying. People are in Christ and then have faith. You twist everything in the verse backwards in a desperate desire to have one verse confirm your belief.

Need I remind you that you were the one claiming regeneration prior to faith? But only the faithful will have a part in the regeneration, as scripture says.

105

News Item7/26/14 12:20 AM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
So J4J, the original Greek grammar construction of the sentence is wrong?

It's amazing the hoops those who insist on 'free will' will jump through to take credit for their salvation. You really did not provide any biblical support to coincide with your opinions. Then, you pull Matthew 19:28 out of context to try to prove faith is of man. Matthew 19:28 has not one thing to do with being born again, or being gifted with faith. Re-read the verse in context. Perhaps this will help you, Vincent's word studies says this about 'regeneration' - 'The final restitution of all things. To be construed with ye shall sit.' That should help you greatly with the context, you also have to read the verses just prior to this one.

104

News Item7/25/14 11:57 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
ladybug wrote:
1) No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. 2) You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...3) why? "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14
1) Jim is wrong and it is pretty clear. The verse doesn't say it is by grace one has faith. Faith is the means through which one becomes saved. How does one get into a building? Through a door. One enters salvation through faith. It doesn't say they have faith by salvation. No one claims to have earned their faith through works, the Jews did claim to earn their salvation through works though. God is demonstrating that salvation can't be earned in that verse.
2) Matthew 19:28 NKJV
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
So people will be in the regeneration prior to faith?! I don't think so.
3) You start with a wrong premise and end up with a wrong conclusion. God doesn't speak to nonbelievers like He did to those who wrote scripture.
103

News Item7/25/14 11:29 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
J4J,

I already provided the text that states the natural man cannot receive the things of God from 1 Cor. As for Ephesians, there is a neuter demonstrative pronoun in the original Greek grammatical construction of the text; please watch the in-depth teaching on this from Jim McClarty at http://youtu.be/o3dodm97SY4

This teaching proves that faith is indeed a gift, given by God. 'And that' is the neuter demonstrative pronoun that refers back to all that precedes it. The video gives an in-depth detailed- but short study of the original Greek grammatical construction of the text.

102

News Item7/25/14 11:19 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
ladybug wrote:
J4J,
1)No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. 2)You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...why? 3) "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14
1) Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

There are many reasons you are wrong.
A) Let's start with the fact that the verse doesn't say no one believes unless they are mystically induced with faith first, as you say. Which leads me to the next point.

B) Nowhere else in scripture does it teach that faith is the gift of God. What is?

Romans 6:23 NKJV

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You see, the gift that God gives believers is eternal life which we have in Christ. Believers are placed in Christ through baptism which happens as a result of faith. Think of all who believed prior to baptism. They believed without receiving the gift.

C) Also consider the topic of the sentence. "It" is being saved by grace and through faith

101

News Item7/25/14 8:09 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Can anyone here claim to be able to understand the fact that God is three equal and totally seperate persons in one? I doubt it. It isn't for the sheep to judge and expect to understand everything the shepherd says. We are to just follow his lead.
100

News Item7/25/14 5:54 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. (John 10:25-29 )
99

News Item7/25/14 5:51 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Luke 24:45-47 KJV
(45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
(46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
(47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The gospel message includes repentance of sin, for the forgiveness of sins; and faith in the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world, who died in the place of sinners and arose again the third day, the one who is God manifest in the flesh, Lord over all.

If any man will not repent of his sins, he will not be saved. And if he will not believe the fundamentals of the faith, he will not be saved. If he does not believe that Christ is risen, he will not be saved.

Justification is through faith alone in Christ alone, and if a man does not have faith in Christ, he will not be saved.

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How can a man believe except someone preach to him? And if he call on the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.

Him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out. This is God's promise, and conversion involves believing God's promises.

98

News Item7/25/14 5:13 PM
Galations 1:1-10  Find all comments by Galations 1:1-10
Reading some of these posts, one would wonder if a few on here even know the true gospel.
Here is some help:
The Gospel or Another Gospel.
by Pastor Bill Parker on sermon audio.
July 13, 2014.
Please give a listen. I fear for some of you.
97

News Item7/25/14 4:57 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
BEFORE FAITH
Galatians 3:23
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

AFTER FAITH
And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:8-9 )

Who Cleansed their hearts? God
Were they unwilling? God word says yes in Romans 8:7-8

96

News Item7/25/14 4:35 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
First, to Bible says, looks like you need to do some research, not all the members involved in the WCF were Bible scholars, there were 30 members of Parliament also in the mix.

P.o.T. no matter how scholarly the people were that worked on the WCF or how much people on this forum object, if you say that God foreordains EVERYTHING that happens then you cannot write off making Him the author of sinful acts by adding a caveat to your statement. By definition that means Eve partook of the forbidden fruit because God made that the path she must take and likewise Adam falling in the transgression was the work of God in Adam's life. There is a difference between foreknowledge and foreordination. Nothing catches God by surprise, God works things out for our good, God caused Cyrus to put out an edict for the rebuilding of the temple. God works all things after the counsel of His own will. None can stay His hand.

The Bible says He leads us in path of righteousness. Why do you think He would punish Israel according to the fruit of their doings if they were just doing what God ordained them to do? Why would He say the iniquity of the Amorites was not full yet, He hadn't made them sin enough?

Any responders spare me the sovereignty lecture (see comment 7/24/14 5:54 PM)

95

News Item7/25/14 3:07 PM
Something o think on  Find all comments by Something o think on
Free-will is a traitor to Jesus, my Lord;
Rebels at His Sovereignty,counsel, and word.
Free-will is a liar,says "tis with ease
A man can believe and repent when he please
That he's a free agent,and so may refuse
The good or the evil, whichever he choose".
~Cornelius Slim~
94

News Item7/25/14 2:45 PM
Corvette  Find all comments by Corvette
Michael Hranek wrote:
just might be able to speak to us in words we have the right to understand and believe, in words we are capable of hearing (if we are actually willing to listen _ the Pharisees certainly weren't) WITHOUT having to allegorize them way in the least
There you go again Michael - "if we are actually willing to listen" - The old salvation by works popish ideology again. You haven't fully left Rome yet have you Michael. You are still convinced that God needs Michaels help to save!!! Michaels "freewill" helped him to come to Christ and Jesus didn't need to lift a finger. Michael doesn't have Total Depravity of sin like the rest of the human race - NO Michael was able to discern spiritually "the things of God" all by himself.
Michael if you were able to discern spiritually without divine assistance then is it also true that you don't need the indwelling Spirit?
93

News Item7/25/14 2:35 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
Amen Dorcas!

P.O.T., I ask this, did the doctrines of grace originate with John Calvin or Jesus Christ? Why do we insist on 'labeling' ourselves and putting ourselves in man-made camps?
Hyper-calvinism is an even more dangerous spin-off of Calvinism and is indeed a problem, as is 'Calvinism'. If a doctrine can be found in and supported by Scripture, then it should not be credited to man. Not everything Calvin taught was scriptural, rather, it was his interpretation of it. This is why we should seek to study the word of God for ourselves, and NOT rely on another fallible creature to teach us. God the Spirit is in fact the teacher of His people.

J4J,
No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...why? "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14

92

News Item7/25/14 2:18 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
JayJay wrote:
Only God gives us the grace to be willing, There are two full pages of verses here I can send to you, but I think these few will do:
Matthew 22:14 For many are called but few are CHOSEN.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.
Ephessians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
I have many other verses lined up that I can post for you, so if you want to read them please holler!
Matthew 22:14 says many more than the chosen were called. Why then were they not all chosen? Because they wouldn't believe!

Hebrews 4:2 KJV

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

John 15:16 isn't talking about faith, it is about His disciples calling into ministry.

Eph 1:4 isn't talking about faith, but rather God's purpose for those in Him. Nobody is in Christ prior to being filled at faith. You have failed to prove faith is imputed into the unwilling

91

News Item7/25/14 1:25 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
Michael...
I can only answer you with scripture:
*****************
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as we're ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48.
Not quite sure what singing the Psalms only has to do with it.
That is only the way that some have been convicted to praise and worship the Lord.
SALVATION IS OF THE LORD.
Praise God, hallejuah , amen.
90

News Item7/25/14 1:09 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Dorcas wrote:
Michel,
What you say is true concerning a FEW who post here.
But those of us who believe the doctrine of grace, as the Bible so plainly teaches, do not fall into that category.
Most who post on this board give all the glory to GOD for their salvation, not John Calvin.
My small mite.
Dorcas
You are a precious sister to me, so I beg you please don't take what I post wrongly, I am just thinking here

Suppose someone in a Psalms Only Church yearned to see a loved one come to genuine saving faith in Jesus Christ. Such a person would need much grace and wisdom to the best they could, not let "Psalms Only" become a distraction or hindrance to the very one they long to see saved,

BUT that in their life the one away from God might be so convicted with the reality and worth of the Lord Jesus Christ, God might bring them to where they want Jesus Christ as their Savior from their sins, and as Lord over their entirel life more than anyting.

Sometimes I think we all forget:
Rev 22:17 KJV
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

And instead want people we care about to do what pleases us

89

News Item7/25/14 12:50 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
Michel,
What you say is true concerning a FEW who post here.
But those of us who believe the doctrine of grace, as the Bible so plainly teaches, do not fall into that category.
Most who post on this board give all the glory to GOD for their salvation, not John Calvin.
My small mite.
88
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