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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  11/26/2014
FRIDAY, APR 12, 2013  |  345 comments
John 3:16 Conference addresses Calvinism

While stressing that the discussion between Calvinists and non-Calvinists in the Southern Baptist Convention is a family matter, speakers at the 2013 John 3:16 Conference outlined the differences between the two views and what they believe to be the issues hindering unity among Southern Baptists.

Frank Cox, pastor of North Metro Baptist Church in Lawrenceville, Ga., which hosted the conference on March 21-22, told attendees that the event would help them "engage in the conversation going on across the nation and the Southern Baptist Convention."

Jerry Vines, pastor emeritus of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Fla., opened the conference by saying it was not about anger or fighting anyone over these issues. ...


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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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Page 1 | Page 8 ·  Found: 345 user comment(s)
News Item4/16/13 5:34 PM
Calvin Luther Zwing Views  Find all comments by Calvin Luther Zwing Views
Christopher000 wrote:
I'm just always amazed at how there can be two, or even more sides to some issues, and all sides seem to be able to use the Bible to argue their points.
We don’t involve ourselves in long debates or discussions about the Bible. They become like ten students looking at a Monet, each giving their own interpretation. Then the teacher says, NO NO NO you are all wrong. The picture is saying ________________.

If we debate anyone until we're blue in the face, it's only the pope and his minions.

205

News Item4/16/13 5:17 PM
Lawb4Grace | Nevada  Find all comments by Lawb4Grace
Christopher000 wrote:
I'm just always amazed at how there can be two, or even more sides to some issues, and all sides seem to be able to use the Bible to argue their points.
Can you be more specific as to the "issues" you are referring to.
204

News Item4/16/13 3:32 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I'm just always amazed at how there can be two, or even more sides to some issues, and all sides seem to be able to use the Bible to argue their points.
203

News Item4/16/13 3:30 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Lurker Wrote:
"Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy.

Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism." Wiki

Thanks Lurker. So do you all believe that this is wrong? I have a question but don't want it taken the wrong way because it's just out of curiosity...

Do you all believe that the above isn't accurate because it is what you have been taught from your spiritual beginning, or is it something you concluded from the Bible and can prove it? If this has been explained in this or other threads, I just didn't understand them and got lost.

202

News Item4/16/13 11:56 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lawb4Grace wrote:
God's "election" and man's "free will."
God's sovereign election and man's exercise of responsibility in choosing Jesus Christ seem opposite and irreconcilable. That is why so many, well-meaning Christians throughout the history of the church have floundered trying to reconcile them. Since the problem cannot be resolved by our finite minds, the result is always to compromise one truth in favor of the other or to weaken both by trying to take a position somewhere between them.
We should let the antimony remain, believing both truths completely and leaving the harmonizing of them to God.
John MacArthur.
Maybe if the churches were to embrace such a radical idea, it would give them more time to be doing what they ought to be doing - preaching the gospel to a fallen mankind who, if they will not take of the water of life freely, will assuredly perish in their sins and be lost forever.
201

News Item4/16/13 11:52 AM
one  Find all comments by one
Mike wrote:
1. No so. You are saying God, outside of time, cannot know what man, within time, will do. This is taking the position that God is not omniscient.

2. Remember with God there is no past, present or future. All is present.

1. The reason man does not have free will is because of sin. (Ignoring sin is an Arminian error)

2. You have limited God with this theory.
GOD wrote:-
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Is GOD still "present" in this stage of creation?

200

News Item4/16/13 11:23 AM
Lawb4Grace | Nevada  Find all comments by Lawb4Grace
God's "election" and man's "free will."

God's sovereign election and man's exercise of responsibility in choosing Jesus Christ seem opposite and irreconcilable. That is why so many, well-meaning Christians throughout the history of the church have floundered trying to reconcile them. Since the problem cannot be resolved by our finite minds, the result is always to compromise one truth in favor of the other or to weaken both by trying to take a position somewhere between them.
We should let the antimony remain, believing both truths completely and leaving the harmonizing of them to God.
John MacArthur.

199

News Item4/16/13 11:07 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
CV wrote:
God is actually excercising his sovreignty when he sets aside His sovreignty, Right?
No, your understanding of sovereignty needs setting aside. Sovereignty means God can do as he wills and is answerable to no other. It does not mean he must do some particular thing, nor does it mean he cannot do some other.

CV wrote:
Everyone agrees that when the bible speaks of "foreknowledge", it is God who has to have it.
Correct

CV wrote:
Man CANNOT have free will and God have foreknowledge at the same time. You have to define these terms back to it's null state.
No so. You are saying God, outside of time, cannot know what man, within time, will do. This is taking the position that God is not omniscient. Remember with God there is no past, present or future. All is present.
198

News Item4/16/13 9:13 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Christopher000 wrote:
I was taught, using the Bible, that Israel was and still is special, that they, being God's chosen people, will be saved in the end. I can't point anyone to specific scripture, because I just can't remember, but I do remember that it was convincing. I thought everyone felt the same until I mentioned one day how sad I was when somebody blasted Israel, and oh boy, did the fire rain down...ha-ha. Anyway, I am beginning to understand but still trying to comprehend it all. I forget the words you all use when referring to Jewish sympathizers..."something" dispys? I guess this is what I was but am in the middle now as I follow the conversations. I'm thinking that this is the side that Lisa was arguing for? The conversation went so fast that it lost mea bit.
The term you are looking for is Christian Zionism.

"Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy.

Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism." Wiki

197

News Item4/16/13 7:12 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Dorcas wrote:
John UK,
The baptist message of faith.www.sbc.net.
Ah, Dorcas, thank you very much!

I have now got a better idea of what the SBC stand for in their Confession and I like it very much. I would think the wording was very carefully and painstakingly chosen to embrace all Baptists, and I can see why there might be some controversy over free will. But on the whole I would be happy to embrace it as a statement of the faith God has given me.

196

News Item4/16/13 7:00 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
This thread, along with others have been interesting and enlightening. I was taught, using the Bible, that Israel was and still is special, that they, being God's chosen people, will be saved in the end. I can't point anyone to specific scripture, because I just can't remember, but I do remember that it was convincing. I thought everyone felt the same until I mentioned one day how sad I was when somebody blasted Israel, and oh boy, did the fire rain down...ha-ha. Anyway, I am beginning to understand but still trying to comprehend it all. I forget the words you all use when referring to Jewish sympathizers..."something" dispys? I guess this is what I was but am in the middle now as I follow the conversations. I'm thinking that this is the side that Lisa was arguing for? The conversation went so fast that it lost mea bit.
195

News Item4/16/13 5:51 AM
Dorcas | Usa  Find all comments by Dorcas
John UK,
The baptist message of faith.www.sbc.net.
194

News Item4/16/13 5:48 AM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
John UK wrote:
"While stressing that the discussion between Calvinists and non-Calvinists in the Southern Baptist Convention is a family matter, speakers at the 2013 John 3:16 Conference outlined the differences between the two views and what they believe to be the issues hindering unity among Southern Baptists."
Does anyone know if the SBC has a doctrinal statement of faith?
193

News Item4/16/13 4:10 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
"While stressing that the discussion between Calvinists and non-Calvinists in the Southern Baptist Convention is a family matter, speakers at the 2013 John 3:16 Conference outlined the differences between the two views and what they believe to be the issues hindering unity among Southern Baptists."

Does anyone know if the SBC has a doctrinal statement of faith?

192

News Item4/15/13 11:28 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Observer wrote:
I was thinking of Jer 31.31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the ****house of Israel, and with the house of Judah****:

I believe this is why Paul is able to call the people under the NC "the Israel of God" Gal 6.16

Concluding my reply....

Paul never referred to NC members as Christians yet since he and Barnabas arrived in Antioch that is the name which stuck. Consider in context:

Isa 62:1-2 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name.

New name: Act 11:26 And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Cursed name: Rev 2:9 them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

If Christians used the names God named we wouldn't have the Dispy dilusion about who presently occupies the nation/state of Israel.

191

News Item4/15/13 10:29 PM
CV  Find all comments by CV
Mike wrote:
If you truly believe God is sovereign why do you have problems with God sovereignly decreeing that man shall have free will in time? Whose sovereignty is it?
God is actually excercising his sovreignty when he sets aside His sovreignty, Right?

It is more clearer to see when this sovreignty takes place "in time".
Before creation, God who has NO "foreknowledge" peeks into the corridors of time to see what sovreign man might do. God peeks because He is not sovreign. God peeks because He wants to know - He wants what He gave up.

Everyone agrees that when the bible speaks of "foreknowledge", it is God who has to have it. That's why we HAVE TO HAVE a dressed rehersal of all creation, before the real show, SO WE CAN HAND BACK TO GOD His "forknowledge"!

Your theology cannot accomodate scriptural terms proper, so when your theology encounters it in the bible it butts up obtrusively against it. Man CANNOT have free will and God have foreknowledge at the same time. You have to define these terms back to it's null state.

Paul couldn't have had your beliefs in mind. Paul didn't encounter these terms, Paul wrote it. Paul wouldn't have written something that needed to be argued out of existence.

190

News Item4/15/13 6:17 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
John UK wrote:
Bro, I am not a theological, however I do believe that if any man that is born again of the Spirit will attend unto the reading and study of scripture, he will inevitably (if not influenced by men) arrive at a biblical perspective concerning man and his salvation which I would describe as "the biblical doctrines of free and sovereign grace". He will also find some fault with Frenchy's theories (if he ever looks them up), and find Pelagius a heretic (if ever he should look him up), and the arminist and dispensationalist camps to have serious error (if ever he should come across them). He will also find many cults which deny even the deity of Christ, like the JW's and Mormons (if he should ever come across them) and a multitude of minor sects who break away from their roots at a trifle, and various bizarre groups, such as the Shakers - now deceased.
The obvious solution then, if a man would have at the truth, is for God to have mercy on him in quickening power, and then for the Spirit to teach him the word of God, which is the truth.
You ain't a theological. You're too funny!
189

News Item4/15/13 5:01 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Contact via emailFind all comments by Christopher000
Boy, what a difference between the SA website as opposed to the smartphone app!

Michael, I didn't know you had sermons or anything available and I didn't think I knew you pastored a church.

So, my wife just called to tell me that she got in touch with the couple that invited us up for the day. Well, they were standing at the finish line, the very spot where the 2nd bomb went off, but relocated after leaving to get lunch. Wow.

188

News Item4/15/13 4:44 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Observer wrote:
I was thinking of Jer 31.31-34

This is the passage that is cross referenced in Hebrews 8.10.

I believe this is why Paul is able to call the people under he NC "the Israel of God" Gal 6.16 and why James is able to address his epistle to the "twelve tribes" James 1.1
What say you?

Ah yes, now I see where you are getting to.... the Israel of God.

There are several prophetic texts which teach that the gathering of all 12 tribes of Israel began in Paul's day and of course they would all be Christains i.e. the Israel of God (which, btw, nicely answers why James addressed his letter to all 12 tribes of Israel).

One is the two sticks prophecy of Ezek 37:15-28 verified by Paul's citation of Isaiah 49:6 at Acts 13:47.

And, of course (in context),

Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

"Others" gathered to him were former aliens to the commonwealth of Israel (Eph 2:12); e.g. Gentiles, the remnant of Edom (Amos 9:12 c.f. Acts 15:16-18) joined to whom? The Israel of God; the children of promise.

Gotta go till this evening.

187

News Item4/15/13 4:42 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Boston Marathon bombs:

Yes, I have been watching this since the reporting began. My wife and I were invited to go up for the day by another couple. Interesting thing is that we most likely would have been somewhere on Boyleston St. where this happened.

2 bombs exploded, and 2 reported unexploded bombs taken care of by the bomb squad. 2 people dead, so far, 23 wounded with 9 of them being critical.

As bad as I have been in the past, never once did I ever imagine taking a human life. I wouldn't have been capable of it.

UPDATE: Amputation of limbs right at the blast sights. Boy, oh boy.

Edit: @Michael H...just sent you an email.

186
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