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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/19/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 23, 2014  |  247 comments  |  1 commentary
Patheos: Calvinism = Wahhabism?

.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.

Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!

Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islam’s violent and extreme movements. ...


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Page 1 | Page 7 ·  Found: 247 user comment(s)
News Item7/26/14 10:23 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
BibleSays... wrote:
Actually, if you will notice this works as a perfect analogy for my argument. Lazarus didn't walk out of that door by his own will, but becase Jesus first chose, and then called to him to "come forth". Lazarus ddn't see the door anymore than you or I! He was dead. But because Jesus chose Lazarus from the many other dead men there, and then called, his name, only then did Lazarus enter through that door. This is exactly how God's salvation works! All praise be to God!
God be praised that he does not leave us dead in sins.

Martha and Mary could call for Lazarus to come forth, to no avail. But the lifegiver can call even the dead.

Lazarus heard Jesus calling him, and responded. He came out. If he had not come out, he would still be dwelling with the dead.

Those who hear that Jesus is the door, and understand what that means, take those two steps of repentance and faith, and they are saved, they come into the kingdom of God. The preacher can call men to Christ, but it is only the Holy Spirit who can quicken, enlighten and enable men to do so. One can plant the seed, another can water it, but it is God only who can bring that plant to fruition.

127

News Item7/26/14 9:19 AM
BibleSays...  Find all comments by BibleSays...
PursuitofTruth writes:

John UK wrote:

There was a "door" at the tomb of Lazarus, maybe just a piece of rock. But Lazarus never availed himself of the exit, he stayed where he was. Why? Because he was dead.

However, Lazarus DID walk out through the door and into the bright sunshine, still wrapped in the grave cloths. It's a miracle!

Actually, if you will notice this works as a perfect analogy for my argument. Lazarus didn't walk out of that door by his own will, but becase Jesus first chose, and then called to him to "come forth". Lazarus ddn't see the door anymore than you or I! He was dead. But because Jesus chose Lazarus from the many other dead men there, and then called, his name, only then did Lazarus enter through that door. This is exactly how God's salvation works! All praise be to God!

126

News Item7/26/14 9:16 AM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
Strong's Lite Dictionary

Predestinated:

Original: ???????? Transliteration: prooriz? Phonetic: pro-or-id'-zo Thayer Definition:

1. to predetermine, decide beforehand 2. in the NT of God decreeing from eternity 3. to foreordain, appoint beforehand

Origin: from G4253 and G3724 TDNT entry: 12:36,7 Part(s) of speech: Verb Strong's Definition: From G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, that is, (figuratively) predetermine: - determine before, ordain, predestinate.

125

News Item7/26/14 9:14 AM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
Strong's Lite Dictionary

Chosen:

Original: ????????? Transliteration: eklegomai Phonetic: ek-leg'-om-ahee Thayer Definition:

1. to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self a. choosing one out of many, i.e. Jesus choosing his disciples b. choosing one for an office c. of God choosing whom he judged fit to receive his favours and separated from the rest of mankind to be peculiarly his own and to be attended continually by his gracious oversight 1. i.e. the Israelites d. of God the Father choosing Christians, as those whom he set apart from the irreligious multitude as dear unto himself, and whom he has rendered, through faith in Christ, citizens in the Messianic kingdom: (Jas 2:5) so that the ground of the choice lies in Christ and his merits only

Origin: middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense) TDNT entry: 06:24,5 Part(s) of speech: Verb Strong's Definition: Middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense); to select: - make choice, choose (out), chosen.

124

News Item7/26/14 9:13 AM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
Ephessian 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: note

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

123

News Item7/26/14 8:58 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
ladybug writes:

Actually J4J, you have misquoted Scripture and pulled it out of context. Again, I highly recommend a study on the ministry of God the Spirit, who moves as the wind and regenerates dead sinners.

How could stating you have faith on your own rob God? Because YOU are taking credit for what GOD does. Again, you cannot rightly divide so you wrongly accuse. How is my quoting scripture to you, giving Greek words and definitions and pointing you to a study video that explains Greek grammar sentence construction in any way accredited to John Calvin? You cannot prove your view from Scripture so you simply blame Calvin for everything.

What makes faith genuine J4J? You have not addressed this question. BTW -Faith/trust/belief in Christ is all from the same Greek word. Why do you believe and an atheist who's heard about Christ doesn't?

May we always, always be teachable.

Amen ladybug!

122

News Item7/26/14 8:57 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
P.S.2. None of us here are arguing that eternal life isn't the gift of God, but you cannot make the connection that you tried to make!
121

News Item7/26/14 8:52 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
P.S. I don't follow any man, I follow God.
120

News Item7/26/14 8:51 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
John for JESUS from ATL writes:

Ladybug... If only you would stick to the teachings found in scripture, but you have already left them behind to follow Calvin and men such as him who have tickled your ears. I showed you from scripture that the gift of God is eternal life and you say I haven't proved anything. If you don't believe in God's word, I am not surprised you would believe in a false teaching such as Calvinism.

We are sticking to scripture J4J, but you have an obsession with taking scripture out of context! We have all quoted scriptures hat clearly support our views, you on the other hand, don't understand how to look at scripture alone, but rather you try to support your view by twisting scripture! We are not fighting Calvanism vs. Armenienism! We are puruing the truth on this topic, using scripture, and scripture alone! This is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of faith: is God's word true in this matter? Or is your opinion? I vote God's word!

119

News Item7/26/14 8:41 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
John UK wrote:

There was a "door" at the tomb of Lazarus, maybe just a piece of rock. But Lazarus never availed himself of the exit, he stayed where he was. Why? Because he was dead.

However, Lazarus DID walk out through the door and into the bright sunshine, still wrapped in the grave cloths. It's a miracle!

Actually, if you will notice this works as a perfect analogy for my argument. Lazarus didn't walk out of that door by his own will, but becase Jesus first chose, and then called to him to "come forth". Lazarus ddn't see the door anymore than you or I! He was dead. But because Jesus chose Lazarus from the many other dead men there, and then called, his name, only then did Lazarus enter through that door. This is exactly how God's salvation works! All praise be to God! BTW, right on ladybug! I'm glad you're posting here!

118

News Item7/26/14 8:13 AM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
Actually J4J, you have misquoted Scripture and pulled it out of context. Again, I highly recommend a study on the ministry of God the Spirit, who moves as the wind and regenerates dead sinners.

How could stating you have faith on your own rob God? Because YOU are taking credit for what GOD does.
Again, you cannot rightly divide so you wrongly accuse. How is my quoting scripture to you, giving Greek words and definitions and pointing you to a study video that explains Greek grammar sentence construction in any way accredited to John Calvin? You cannot prove your view from Scripture so you simply blame Calvin for everything.

What makes faith genuine J4J? You have not addressed this question. BTW - Faith/trust/belief in Christ is all from the same Greek word. Why do you believe and an atheist who's heard about Christ doesn't?

May we always, always be teachable.

117

News Item7/26/14 8:11 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
Through a door.
I am going to agree with you here, J4. Why? Because Jesus said,

John 10:9 KJV
(9) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

You go in at the door, and then you are saved. That's simple enough, if we left it there.

There was a "door" at the tomb of Lazarus, maybe just a piece of rock. But Lazarus never availed himself of the exit, he stayed where he was. Why? Because he was dead.

However, Lazarus DID walk out through the door and into the bright sunshine, still wrapped in the grave cloths. It's a miracle!

Just so, every Christian conversion is a miracle, it is a miracle of God's grace. He quickens, he enlightens, he opens the blind spiritual eyes, the deaf spiritual ears, changes the rebellious will, reveals both his justice and his love, woos the sinner into embracing the salvation freely offered, the sinner steps in through the door which is Jesus Christ and lo, he is saved!

116

News Item7/26/14 7:41 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Sorry! Not done!

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Ephessians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

115

News Item7/26/14 7:37 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
J4J wrote:

"1) Jim is wrong and it is pretty clear. The verse doesn't say it is by grace one has faith. Faith is the means through which one becomes saved. How does one get into a building? Through a door. One enters salvation through faith. It doesn't say they have faith by salvation."

For the record, there are plenty of scripture passages that prove you wrong. Let me offer you a list, I hope the people on here will study these verses.

John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

John 15:16, John 15:19, Ephessians 1:4

114

News Item7/26/14 3:59 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John for JESUS wrote:
1)I have qouted a couple scriptures to you, so you are wrong. Also, demons only believe God exist, they don't trust in Him. There is a difference.
John for Jesus
In these discussion it is worth noting
'the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God...'

of the Spirit of God
Let me repeat that...of the Spirit of God

Hmmmm?
Would that be maybe things like, the supernatural agape love of God poured out in our hearts, meaning genuine believers, ones truly born again of the Holy Spirit, which is another thing the lost are unable to comprehend until they are

If we rightly divide the word of Truth as we are commanded to, we will realize the very context of Scripture flows with the reality of how, sinners both know God exists and surpress this knowledge, know sin is evil and deserves punishment, while they practise sin and approve of sinners, even while they judge others

Another thing unregenerate men have no personal knowledge of, is the sovereign work of God convicting men of sin, making real to them the Lord Jesus Christ, and drawing them to call upon His name to be saved from sin

But they may indeed know there own personal rejection of Christ even if they vainly substitue religion for Jesus

113

News Item7/26/14 3:15 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
ladybug wrote:
1)Instead of debating from Scripture and answering my question as to why your 'faith' is different than that of demons...blah blah blah.
2)At no point and time did I quote John Calvin, I gave you Holy Writ, as well as a biblical grammatical teaching video. How is that related in any way to Calvin? 3) It's easier to wrongly accuse than to rightly divide isn't it J4J?
May God bring you to a right understanding of where true saving faith originates; remember, 4) Your attempt to credit yourself with the ability to believe robs God of glory due only to Him {Isa. 48:11}
1)I have qouted a couple scriptures to you, so you are wrong. Also, demons only believe God exist, they don't trust in Him. There is a difference.
2) When you espouse his views, you don't need to qoute him. The guy on YouTube is a Calvinist.
3) You shoud know!
4) You believe faith is not an meritorious work of salvation and then you claim that if one is able to believe that it robs God. How could it rob Him when faith doesn't make someone saved?
112

News Item7/26/14 1:39 AM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
J4J,

Actually, I did NOT say it, God did...Read this verse again, "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14 This speaks of the unregenerate. You cannot discern spiritual truths until God first does a work. It is the ministerial work of God the Spirit that must precede believing, for unless He does a supernatural work in your heart{the new birth}, you cannot comprehend. Do I say this? No, the Spirit of God, who is the Author of God's word says it in the verse I just gave you.
As for demons believing, your response doesn't show the difference between pistis/pisteuo. In other words, in both Eph. 2:8-9 and James 2:19, 'believe' means the same thing; look up the definition yourself at blueletterbible.org. So, what causes one kind of 'faith' to be genuine, and another not? What causes the faith of the Roman Catholic to differ from your own? Why would you say yours is genuine and theirs isn't? Remember, there are multitudes who profess a belief in Christ, including many evangelicals. What makes faith genuine?

May I recommend you do a study on the ministerial work of God the Spirit?

111

News Item7/26/14 1:28 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Ladybug...
You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...is what you said. According to the definition you gave me that can not be right because regeneration is to be construed with entering God's rest which has not happened yet. Meaning faith precedes regeneration. Not the other way around as you boasted. The reason demons believe and won't be saved is because Jesus didn't come to save them. It also proves that belief doesn't merit salvation. That is, salvation is from God regardless of one's trust in Him. Demons believe He exist and that can't save them.
110

News Item7/26/14 1:24 AM
Calvin loved Christ  Find all comments by Calvin loved Christ
Holy religious art? Michelangelo the pedophile and the ignudi? Carravaggio- pederast and the pictures of undressed little boys that is called John the Baptist? This "religious art" is very obviously sodomite pornography. The writer of the above article chose also to ignore that many of these these romish "icons" include body parts...the papists happily decorating their "churches" with the skulls and bones of Bible believers...Just as a hunter mounts the heads of his prey, so there are Christians who died in faith mounted all over Europe. This obsession with skull shrines is the same behavior Jeffrey Dahmer and other serial killers engage in . Here is a link to the followers of Christ in Prague. Their minister was Jan Huss. These died in faith ...http://www.outsideprague.com/kutna_hora/bone_church.html
109

News Item7/26/14 1:22 AM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
J4J,

Instead of debating from Scripture and answering my question as to why your 'faith' is different than that of demons, you throw out false accusations and divert attention away from your inability to biblically prove yourself right.
At no point and time did I quote John Calvin, I gave you Holy Writ, as well as a biblical grammatical teaching video. How is that related in any way to Calvin? When someone cannot answer or challenge, that is the road they go down, apparently you chose that road. It's easier to wrongly accuse than to rightly divide isn't it J4J?
May God bring you to a right understanding of where true saving faith originates; remember, He will NOT share His glory with another. Your attempt to credit yourself with the ability to believe robs God of glory due only to Him {Isa. 48:11}
Take this to heart, English translations of the Bible are NOT the same as the original language{s}. This is why bible study is essential as opposed to mere bible reading.

108
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