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FRIDAY, APRIL 18, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
SUNDAY, OCT 20, 2013| 147 comments
John MacArthur vs. Mark Driscoll: Megachurch pastors clash over charismatic theology
Megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll claims that his books were confiscated at the Strange Fire conference put on by another megachurch pastor John MacArthur.

Driscoll, who pastors Mars Hill Church in Seattle, is a reformed pastor who is more open to charismatic theology. MacArthur, who pastors Grace Community Church in southern California and has been named in the top 10 most influential pastors in a survey by LifeWay Research, has long criticized the charismatic movement, calling it “a farce and a scam.” ...


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Page 1 | Page 7 ·  Found: 147 user comment(s)
News Item10/20/13 5:19 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Timmy Wright wrote:
I love the SermonAudio site but at times it not the most objective of sources. I was brought up a Free P, i was always against the charismatic movement. I believe God has placed me in a Pentecostal church, (I have spent many hours in prayer about this) not a hyper charismatic church but a conservative pentecostal church that preaches Christ. We believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, my Pastor is respected by and has preached on the same platform as Dr. Paisley. They may disagree on the gifts but are completely in sync otherwise. Maybe it's different in NI, the hyper charismatic church scene hasn't quite taken hold here. All this conflict within the church is terrible, i think we can all agree there and get on our knees and pray.
Timmy Wright
I appreciate your post
IMHO there is an enormous difference between what I would call 'old timey Pentecostals' who were quite similar to old time Baptists (except for the gifts being real and for today) and the quite heretical Charismatic (Word Faith) Movement

When I was lost, I found out later, it was some of these old timey Pentecostals who prayed that God would make Himself real to me and save me. This is what is so important that men, women, girls and boys would be saved from sin

27

News Item10/20/13 5:10 PM
Timmy Wright | Northern Ireland  Contact via emailFind all comments by Timmy Wright
I love the SermonAudio site but at times it not the most objective of sources. I was brought up a Free P, i was always against the charismatic movement. I believe God has placed me in a Pentecostal church, (I have spent many hours in prayer about this) not a hyper charismatic church but a conservative pentecostal church that preaches Christ. We believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, my Pastor is respected by and has preached on the same platform as Dr. Paisley. They may disagree on the gifts but are completely in sync otherwise. Maybe it's different in NI, the hyper charismatic church scene hasn't quite taken hold here. All this conflict within the church is terrible, i think we can all agree there and get on our knees and pray.
26

News Item10/20/13 4:50 PM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
I want to know what a " Calvinist baptist " is ...! Isn't that a oxymoron..? Calvin detested the anabaptist. What a ecumenical stew.! MacArthur, states. Infant baptism, is a doctrine of demons..! Why all these baptist, branding themselves as reformed Calvinist?
25

News Item10/20/13 4:05 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
What a mess. Personally I am not fond of either MacArthur nor Driscoll.

IMHO there are bigger issues (or more to the root of the problems) facing believers right now than the heretical charismatic movement - such as the Ecumenical (Tolerance/Anti-Holiness) Movement and a twisted influence of Calvinistic/Reformed Theology that is sabotaging the prayer life of too many individual believers and local churches.

I hope you all know the Lord's house is to be a house of Prayer (and that would be real genuine Biblical/Scriptural/Holy Spirit led (not some other spirit) and empowered Prayer and Intercession)

Now if MacArthur really wants to deal with a huge problem let him take on Francis 1 and the likely soon to be "sainted" very ecumenical (tolerant to much so a believer can weep over him and the matter) Billy Graham and similar mega parachurch ministries that may be doing more damage to Christians (genuine, faithful) than the Charismatic with their beloved Benny Hinns and Kenneth Copelands

think
2 Tim 3:1-5
And sadly many Masons/Shriners would be among those having a form of godliness (good works) but denying the power thereof

literally denying the authority of Jesus Christ to be Lord in every area of their lives NOT just church on Sunday morning

24

News Item10/20/13 3:50 PM
FG | USA  Find all comments by FG
I believe this pretty well states the Free Presbyterian position on the charismatic movement.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1023..
23

News Item10/20/13 3:40 PM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
Timmy. This is the problem with "Feelings" in the Charismatic Churches. It's just that! The Bible says to "test the spirits" 1John4:1. Also Jer.17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I also believe the FPC, denounces any charismatic teachings.
22

News Item10/20/13 3:35 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
I like what I'm seeing said about Mark Driscoll I like most of what I'm seeing about John MacArthur, But Mr. Lange what would your feeling be, about What does Christ as “true Israel” mean for the nation Israel?: a critique of the non-dispensational understanding (PDF)? I would also point out The Unscriptural Theologies Of Amillennialism And Postmillennialism.

For some of you, who are not already aware, about Some Gifts Are Not Present Today. It's obvious I'm not adverse to using John's material, but I'll give you breather and none of these authors are John MacArthur.

21

News Item10/20/13 2:46 PM
Ferintosh  Find all comments by Ferintosh
Driscoll and his "Charismatic theology" are unbiblical and untrue.

Quote: "Charismatics teach that believing in Jesus Christ is not enough for the fulfilled Christian life. They believe that a second work of grace (the baptism in the Holy Spirit) is necessary for spiritual fullness. This teaching is a subtle denial of the sufficiency that we have in Christ; it detracts from the glory due to Jesus Christ and clearly contradicts Paul’s teaching regarding the fullness we have in Christ. “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him...” (Col. 3:9-10)" (B.Schwertley)

Charismaticalism displays the same old cult practice of adding to Scripture to make it say something else. Thus do they pretend and deceive by suggesting their interpretation is the correct one. Sounds just like the JW's. It is a 20th century temptation that we could do without.

20

News Item10/20/13 1:43 PM
ECM | Michigan  Protected NameFind all comments by ECM
Both Mark Driscoll and James McDonald showed up Friday according to news reports and Twitter chatter. Both MacDonald and Driscoll were not invited by Grace Church to be there, nor did they pay to come as attendees. Driscoll did not ask if he could come to the conference to hand out his literature. The question is pretty simple: If they were not invited and did not follow protocol, why did they take it upon themselves to do this? I believe it is because they have big egos and think they are pretty big stuff. Actually, their immature actions reflect their juvenile character. In the words of the great philosopher Forrest Gump: stupid is as stupid does.
This was nothing but a publicity stunt from a couple of "pastors" whose testimonies are quite unbecoming. This stunt just adds to the argument that these two are simply carnal men who are always about pushing carnal means.
19

News Item10/20/13 1:29 PM
ECM | Michigan  Protected NameFind all comments by ECM
Both Mark Driscoll and James McDonald showed up Friday according to news reports and Twitter chatter. Both MacDonald and Driscoll were not invited by Grace Church to be there, nor did he pay to come as an attendees. Driscoll did not ask if he could come to the conference to hand out his literature. The question is pretty simple: If they were not invited and did not follow protocol, why did they take it upon themselves to do this? I believe it because they have big egos and think they are pretty big stuff. Actually, their immature actions reflect their juvenile character. In the words of the great philosopher Forrest Gump: stupid is as stupid does.
This was nothing but a publicity stunt from a couple of "pastors" whose testimonies are quite unbecoming. This stunt just adds to the argument that these two are simply carnal men who are always about pushing carnal means.
18

News Item10/20/13 1:18 PM
SF from TX  Find all comments by SF from TX
Oh and as for Driscoll, driscollcontroversy.com is an excellent site exposing him.
17

News Item10/20/13 1:14 PM
SF from TX  Find all comments by SF from TX
My mom is big on the charismatic beliefs. She even goes as far as to prophecy that I'll have twins (the Lord has blessed us with a Singleton pregnancy), that my sister in law would have twins (she ended up miscarrying a Singleton), and various other things. Jeremiah 23:16 and Deuteronomy 18:22 (KJV) come to mind when she begins with her prophecies. I've tried talking to her about how corrupt it the system is but se refuses to listen. She has a bad back that requires medication to handle the pain and has gone as far as believing some charismatic woman preacher healed her....at least for a few days ad then she was back on her meds. The movement is not only spiritually dangerous but physically dangerous as well. I'm in agreement with FRANK-STAY AWAY from the charismatic "churches." Timmy, I highly recommend you listen to the sermon by Bryan Denlinger titles The Corrupt Charismatic Cult. You can find it here on sermonaudio.
16

News Item10/20/13 12:15 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
As some of you know, I have a history with Pentecostalism and the Charismatics. The main reasons I am against them now is the fact that I have never encountered anyone in either group who do not believe in a works based salvation. And lastly and in many ways even more important is their view of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I personally believe that “all” believers have have the Holy Spirit, not just some. And the Holy Spirit isn't someone that can divide Himself. He is either all there, or He is not there. The problem with the “just some” thought is it would then be impossible not to give more credence to those who claim this experience. Can anyone imagine someone in one of these movements being the leader or a respected layman if they don’t claim to have a post-salvation baptism in the Holy Spirit. I have no problem with saying someone is “filled” with the Spirit, but as most know that is much different. So, although not as heretical as the RCC, I would recommend that everyone simply stay away from them. There are lots of other heresies they "normally" entertain; like women preachers etc. I don't care how nice they are or even if some of their doctrine is correct; I would just STAY AWAY.
15

News Item10/20/13 11:01 AM
Timmy Wright | northern Ireland  Contact via emailFind all comments by Timmy Wright
Sorry bout that, hadn't fished that post. I was brought up a Free Presbyterian. I always believed in the gospel although I wandered lost for many years. When I came back to the Lord I prayed and asked God where He wanted me. I had a choice of several churches friends and family had invited me to. On that Sunday I tried phoning people, one was out of town, another in hospital with a minor injury, another's phone battery died etc. I prayed again and then I got a call from a friend asking did I fancy going to the Bible Pattern Church. I don't believe in coincidence, especially after prayer. Before that I would have agreed with Pastor MacArthur. Oh and possibly the first message I heard there was on the gifts. I'm not entirely sure about the subject yet but I'm not closing my mind to God, I will go where he leads me. The church I attend preaches the gospel, our Pastor is respected by the Free Pres church and Brethren assemblies which should help you understand the gospel he preaches.
14

News Item10/20/13 10:47 AM
Krisztina F. | UK  Contact via emailFind all comments by Krisztina F.
https://www.facebook.com/cameron.buettel/posts/416726815095519?comment_id=1976683&offset=0&total_comments=10

Also:
"It wasn't that we were trying to stir up trouble with Pastor Mark, we just removed them because we have a lot of different publishing partners that are here on campus already and all of their books all the way down the line, everything they are selling has already gone through a pre-approval process," Pastor Rich Gregory, who is MacArthur's assistant, told CP. "I don't think anybody, Mark included, would probably allow their conference just to be opened to whatever private editors wanted to step onto campus and distribute anything that they wanted to. So, that's a policy that would be consistent with any church or conference."
Driscoll told CP that he thought it was "gracious that they let me on campus at all."
"They don't owe me anything and I didn't go through an official process. I wasn't planning on it. I just happened to be in town," he said. More here: http://www.christianpost.com/news/mark-driscoll-stokes-john-macarthurs-strange-fire-conference-with-impromptu-book-signing-107003/cpf

13

News Item10/20/13 10:43 AM
Timmy Wright | northern Ireland  Contact via emailFind all comments by Timmy Wright
I think the truth lies somewhere between. I was against the gifts of the spirit until recently. I am approaching the subject with an open mind. I'm letting God lead me and God has placed me in a Pentecostal church, out of my comfort zone might I add. While at times the gifts of the Spirit are abused, Christ spoke of how public prayer and alms giving was abused by the Pharisees, He did not tell us to stop praying or giving but to do it right. The same applies with the gifts I believe. God provided us with instruction on these matters, should we discard those portions of scripture?? I will not limit the supernatural nature of the Holy Spirit. The biggest winner of this, 'war', is clearly Satan. Atheists and others are laughing at us. The gospel is the most important issue.
12

News Item10/20/13 10:39 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Timmy Wright wrote:
I think the truth lies somewhere between. I was against the gifts of the spirit until recently. I am approaching the subject with an open mind. I'm letting God lead me and God has placed me in a Pentecostal church, out of my comfort zone might I add. While at times the gifts of the Spirit are abused, Christ spoke of how public prayer and alms giving was abused by the Pharisees, He did not tell us to stop praying out giving
Interesting. Timmy, how did God lead you and place you in a Pentecostal church?
11

News Item10/20/13 10:32 AM
Timmy Wright | northern Ireland  Contact via emailFind all comments by Timmy Wright
I think the truth lies somewhere between. I was against the gifts of the spirit until recently. I am approaching the subject with an open mind. I'm letting God lead me and God has placed me in a Pentecostal church, out of my comfort zone might I add. While at times the gifts of the Spirit are abused, Christ spoke of how public prayer and alms giving was abused by the Pharisees, He did not tell us to stop praying out giving
10

News Item10/20/13 9:34 AM
Krisztina F. | UK  Contact via emailFind all comments by Krisztina F.
Rich Gregory, assistant to John MacArthur, said he was there when it happened and that Driscoll’s books were not confiscated and there was nothing contfrontational.
“It was great, we were happy to have him at the conference. He brought books to hand out. We explained to him that all the books distributed on campus need to be approved. He told us that he wanted them to be a gift to us from him. One of our conference directors took that gift and brought them up to the offices. If you hear from him and he wants them back, we can send those back if he wants them. We were not looking at him like, ‘Boy you’re trying to stir up controversy.’ I don’t want to judge his motives for what he wasn’t trying to do. I wish they had actually stayed for the actual content of the conference.”http://www.religionnews.com/2013/10/18/john-macarthur-vs-mark-driscoll-megachurch-pastors-clash-charismatic-theology/
9

News Item10/20/13 9:30 AM
Stu  Find all comments by Stu
Maybe next year MacArthur will also finally get around to doing what's in his heart of hearts: kicking pedobaptists to the curb. Perhaps he'll call it his "Strange Baptism" crusade. Then R.C. Sproul and others, who do not have his imprimatur, when they show up, they and their "false and damning" books, will be summarily dismissed.
8
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