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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  12/22/2014
FRIDAY, APR 12, 2013  |  345 comments
John 3:16 Conference addresses Calvinism

While stressing that the discussion between Calvinists and non-Calvinists in the Southern Baptist Convention is a family matter, speakers at the 2013 John 3:16 Conference outlined the differences between the two views and what they believe to be the issues hindering unity among Southern Baptists.

Frank Cox, pastor of North Metro Baptist Church in Lawrenceville, Ga., which hosted the conference on March 21-22, told attendees that the event would help them "engage in the conversation going on across the nation and the Southern Baptist Convention."

Jerry Vines, pastor emeritus of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Fla., opened the conference by saying it was not about anger or fighting anyone over these issues. ...


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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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Page 1 | Page 7 ·  Found: 345 user comment(s)
News Item4/17/13 7:32 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Redundant? Incessant? Whatever...one of those.
225

News Item4/17/13 7:28 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks John...I had you specifically in mind but didn't want to name names...ha-ha. Boy, people must be sick and tired of my redundant "ha-ha's"
Anyway, I don't know anything for certain but it's interesting to follow any relevant conversations.
224

News Item4/17/13 7:25 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks Michael. I think we are in agreement, unless I am misreading you.
I think I may take much of Revelation much more literally than some. I know there is symbolism and allegories, but some things are just sooo specific...

I got your email...thanks for all of that info. I haven't followed the link to the video yet but will.

223

News Item4/17/13 7:25 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks for the post. What I like is that I now know what most (?) here believe cocerning those topics...all in one post. Previously, there have been lengthy discussions on each but I always ended up getting lost in the content.
The only problem I have is disregarding a literal 1000yr millennium. Why is this when the Bible is so very specific and describes the events which preceed, and follow this event? These events never happen either if there is no 1000yrs. Satan doesn't get chained and then loosed for a short time after, the new unregenerate do not rise up against God, and everything else. I have heard some say that they don't believe it because they see no need for it but how can we comment on what God has planned for what or why? I guess, for myself, I worry about symbolizing things that seem too far out or unnecessary from a human standpoint.
Christopher, I wish you well as you grapple with these issues. Many like myself find it hard to believe there is a continuation of the world for an extra 1000 years because many passages of scripture teach that the end of the world is when Christ returns to judge it, and all men are resurrected unto judgment or life.
222

News Item4/17/13 7:09 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks for the post. What I like is that I now know what most (?) here believe cocerning those topics...all in one post. Previously, there have been lengthy discussions on each but I always ended up getting lost in the content.
The only problem I have is disregarding a literal 1000yr millennium. Why is this when the Bible is so very specific and describes the events which preceed, and follow this event? These events never happen either if there is no 1000yrs. Satan doesn't get chained and then loosed for a short time after, the new unregenerate do not rise up against God, and everything else. I have heard some say that they don't believe it because they see no need for it but how can we comment on what God has planned for what or why? I guess, for myself, I worry about symbolizing things that seem too far out or unnecessary from a human standpoint.
Christopher000
A bit of a sidebar here, the RCC derides taking the Book of Revelation as "literal" with a whole lot of symbolic language, IMHO because it exposes them as the Great Harlot.

Scripture is permeated with very specific prophecies that have been literally fulfilled such as: Bethlehem, Cyrus, so many years in Egypt so why imagine Revelation isn't too?

221

News Item4/17/13 7:05 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
John UK
btw "Calvinism" or Hyper/Reformed whatever CANNOT preach good news, and the PROMISE of it, to all mankind, if there was no GOOD NEWS rejected by the non-elect.
Yes, that is correct.

But I challenge you to find me one Spurgeon sermon where the gospel is not made relevant to every person in the congregation.

Brother, I am just as opposed to hypermen as you are. But the doctrines of grace are not of such sort.

Revelation 22:17 KJV
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Who are those who may take the waters of eternal life freely and without charge? Them that are thirsty firstly, and them that are willing to do so, secondly.

Notice:
John 5:40 KJV
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

These "willed not" to come to Christ.

All such perish.

But if there is "life for a look at the crucified one", why are people not willing to look? Why do they prefer to perish in their sins? I put it to you that it is because they do not believe that they are sinners, that hell is real, that Christ died for them, and any other biblical doctrine you can think of.

220

News Item4/17/13 6:56 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks for the post. What I like is that I now know what most (?) here believe cocerning those topics...all in one post. Previously, there have been lengthy discussions on each but I always ended up getting lost in the content.
The only problem I have is disregarding a literal 1000yr millennium. Why is this when the Bible is so very specific and describes the events which preceed, and follow this event? These events never happen either if there is no 1000yrs. Satan doesn't get chained and then loosed for a short time after, the new unregenerate do not rise up against God, and everything else. I have heard some say that they don't believe it because they see no need for it but how can we comment on what God has planned for what or why? I guess, for myself, I worry about symbolizing things that seem too far out or unnecessary from a human standpoint.
219

News Item4/17/13 6:44 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
Now then Michael my bro.
John 10:15 KJV
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
It is well worth observing that our Lord never said, "I lay down my life for the sheep and the goats."

A true conversion is a miracle of God's grace.

John UK
Yes, Jesus did indeed say that.
And along with that, Why then did the Holy Spirit moved the Apostle Paul to plead with the Corinthians to not receive the grace of God in vain?

Think about it, GRACE, and I think it is safe to say even SAVING GRACE for those who might only have been calling Jesus, 'Lord, Lord' and not belonging to Him was there for them - which in my humble observation Jesus had died for them BUT His sacrifice won't avail them anything if they did not receive Him.

Think about just what you want men to preach.

Believe in Jesus and that makes you one of the elect He died for

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (WHY? BECAUSE He died and rose again for you to save you from your sins) and you will be SAVED.

btw "Calvinism" or Hyper/Reformed whatever CANNOT preach good news, and the PROMISE of it, to all mankind, if there was no GOOD NEWS rejected by the non-elect.

218

News Item4/17/13 4:56 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Observer wrote:
Dispensationalism is plain wrong because you could never arrive at that system by just studying the Bible.
Salvation cannot be lost by any genuine believer- the Lord keeps us by his power.
Predestination - it is plain in the Bible.
Pre trib/Post trib - since one would have to believe in the literal 1000 years of Rev 20 and it is a symbolical book, then they are both wrong.
Cessationism - if you mean the miraculous sign gifts - these have ceased.
Young earth/old earth - I tend to be a young earther because the earth was created with apparent age - if light takes millions of light years to travel to earth from some stars and since they were created to give light to the earth, the light must have reached the earth the same day. Also Adam and Eve were created Man and Woman not babes etc.
Now I am going to leave this forum for a few months until the dust settles Be back to read all ya interesting comments.
Observer, thanks for dropping in for a visit.

There's not much I could say about your post because it cannot be gainsaid. However, some do like to argue, so time will tell.

217

News Item4/17/13 3:23 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
David Preston wrote:
John UK- Jesus's atonement is not limited.
If you want to believe that, go ahead.

But realise then that Jesus atonement does not guarantee salvation for you. It is all down to YOU. So I sure hope you don't have any doubts, because justification is by faith.

Now then Michael my bro.

John 10:15 KJV
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

It is well worth observing that our Lord never said, "I lay down my life for the sheep and the goats."

I have no problem preaching the gospel, the good news, to all men, and seek to see all men saved. However, it is very observable that it is very rare for anyone to convert. I keep my eyes and ears open, and for someone to be saved in the UK is extremely rare. The baptistries are drying up, and many are despondent because of a lack of converts to carry on the good work.

Is this down to a lack of salesmanship?

Uh oh, I think not.

The easy-believism preachers may still be getting numbers to record in their portfolio, but then they are just pseudo-converts, otherwise known as tares.

A true conversion is a miracle of God's grace.

216

News Item4/16/13 11:42 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
David Preston wrote:
John UK- Jesus's atonement is not limited. It is for all to receive based on their own freewill.

Isa. 53:3
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

David Preston
Thank you for your post.
I like considering how it is NOT written: 'the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of (quote) only the elect'.

Thanks again, I believe it is safe to say we need all the encouragement, and what you posted is an encouragement, to go and preach the Gospel to all creation.

215

News Item4/16/13 11:20 PM
David Preston | Centreville, VA  Contact via emailFind all comments by David Preston
John UK- Jesus's atonement is not limited. It is for all to receive based on their own freewill. In the old testament it was limited to all of Israel. Going to the Old Testament to justify unlimited atonement is wrong. The gentiles were dealt with a different way than the Jews. Plus even though the Priest made an atonement for the people of Israel that did not mean all of Israel was saved.
And for those who think going to Jewish culture for insight on Old Testament life is silly may I remind you that the Old Testament we have today is because of unbelieving Jews preserving them.

Isa. 53:3
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

214

News Item4/16/13 8:01 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Where's Frank when we need him to remind us we're right if we agree with him? Observer take his place?
213

News Item4/16/13 7:43 PM
Dan  Find all comments by Dan
Observer wrote:
Be back to read all ya interesting comments.
No need, there is nothing more to say. Forums can be closed now.
212

News Item4/16/13 7:29 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
Enjoyed your post,observer.
Spot on!
211

News Item4/16/13 7:08 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Observer wrote:
Hey Chris
Its real easy.
Dispensationalism is plain wrong because you could never arrive at that system by just studying the Bible.
Salvation cannot be lost by any genuine believer- the Lord keeps us by his power.
Predestination - it is plain in the Bible.
Pre trib/Post trib - since one would have to believe in the literal 1000 years of Rev 20 and it is a symbolical book, then they are both wrong.
Cessationism - if you mean the miraculous sign gifts - these have ceased.
Young earth/old earth - I tend to be a young earther because the earth was created with apparent age - if light takes millions of light years to travel to earth from some stars and since they were created to give light to the earth, the light must have reached the earth the same day. Also Adam and Eve were created Man and Woman not babes etc.
Now I am going to leave this forum for a few months until the dust settles Be back to read all ya interesting comments.
210

News Item4/16/13 6:57 PM
Lawb4Grace | Nevada  Find all comments by Lawb4Grace
Observer wrote:
Hey Chris
Its real easy.
Dispensationalism is plain wrong because you could never arrive at that system by just studying the Bible.
Salvation cannot be lost by any genuine believer- the Lord keeps us by his power.
Predestination - it is plain in the Bible.
Pre trib/Post trib - since one would have to believe in the literal 1000 years of Rev 20 and it is a symbolical book, then they are both wrong.
Cessationism - if you mean the miraculous sign gifts - these have ceased.
Young earth/old earth - I tend to be a young earther because the earth was created with apparent age - if light takes millions of light years to travel to earth from some stars and since they were created to give light to the earth, the light must have reached the earth the same day. Also Adam and Eve were created Man and Woman not babes etc.
Now I am going to leave this forum for a few months until the dust settles Be back to read all ya interesting comments.
No, your fine. A consistent response and historically accurate. The only place I would disagree is your take on the Revelation. It is both symbolic and literal. And this is one of the non-essentials that Christians can agree to disagree on. Good post.
209

News Item4/16/13 6:52 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Christopher000 wrote:
a few topics are:
dispensationalism,
can one lose their salvation, predestination,
pre-trib/post-trib,
cessationism,
creation/old Earth, etc.
Hey Chris

Its real easy.

Dispensationalism is plain wrong because you could never arrive at that system by just studying the Bible.

Salvation cannot be lost by any genuine believer- the Lord keeps us by his power.

Predestination - it is plain in the Bible.

Pre trib/Post trib - since one would have to believe in the literal 1000 years of Rev 20 and it is a symbolical book, then they are both wrong.

Cessationism - if you mean the miraculous sign gifts - these have ceased.

Young earth/old earth - I tend to be a young earther because the earth was created with apparent age - if light takes millions of light years to travel to earth from some stars and since they were created to give light to the earth, the light must have reached the earth the same day. Also Adam and Eve were created Man and Woman not babes etc.

Now I am going to leave this forum for a few months until the dust settles Be back to read all ya interesting comments.

208

News Item4/16/13 5:52 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Lawb4Grace from Nevada writes:
Christopher000 wrote:
I'm just always amazed at how there can be two, or even more sides to some issues, and all sides seem to be able to use the Bible to argue their points.
Can you be more specific as to the "issues" you are referring to.

Well, I'd have to give it a little more thought, but a few topics are: dispensationalism, can one lose their salvation, predestination, pre-trib/post-trib, cessationism, and even creation/old Earth, etc.
I know a couple of those are just curiosities, but the others, I think, are important and I have seen all sides go at it, each making, what I thought anyway, were good points.
I just wonder how there can be differing views on some topics and I guess that's why there are so many branches of the church?

207

News Item4/16/13 5:35 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
one wrote:
---
2. You have limited God with this theory.
GOD wrote:-
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Is GOD still "present" in this stage of creation?
What means "in the beginning"? That is when time also began, else it would not be the beginning. We know God existed prior to this beginning, therefore is not limited by, nor part of time. It is only physical things that are connected in some way to time. Spirit is not measurable in any sense. God, being Spirit, has no link to time except in the formation of it, and in the temporary stepping into it in the form of the Lord Jesus.

I don't have a crystal clear understanding of this business, but we might be able to see that the only way he could not be "everywhen" present, is if he was flowing along through time along with us. But that would require him to be limited/controlled by by his own creation.
206
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