The petition to let Texas secede from the U.S. to be reviewed by the White House
As of 3:40 p.m. ET, more than 25,000 Texans have already signed the petition on The White House website to let Texas peacefully secede from United States of America and “create its own NEW government.”
The petition, created on Nov. 9, argues for secession.
Dear Frank and John from the UK, I could be mistaken, but I thought this website, SermonAudio, was created by a gentleman in the Free Presbyterian Church. I then assumed that it would be a place where I could meet like-minded believers. Of course, I don't expect everyone to think exactly like me, but that there would be a mutual respect for the teaching and teachers of Reformed Theology. At this point, I am totally confused as to why there would be such hostility to the wonderful work of John Calvin at this website. I have never felt more like weeping at the comments on this website as I do at both of yours.
You are restricting us when you prevent men from using the Law as a guide for regulating behavior. Did not God even judge the nations of Canaan for their gross immorality? Were they in Covenant with Him?
Marty wrote: You didn't say Christian religion, just religion. In our own nation, pragmatism, utilitarianism, scientism, materialism etc. rule over us
Yes, that is what democracy is all about. The people vote for who they want.
Democracy in the UK went pear-shaped when the Puritans decided to have a war so that they would have power over the people and try to Christianize them.
How about a dictatorship? Is that the better proposition?
Marty wrote: Neither of you can by reference to Scripture restrict such an endeavour. It's you two that wish to restrict the manner of civil government. You mock the reformers, but even 200 years ago, what were the rates for fornication, divorce or even sodomy? How will you compensate victims and protect the weak?
Again, we do not have to. Ours is the null hypothesis. You are creating the doctrinal hypothesis - YOU need to prove it - and YOU have failed to do so.
There IS a regulative principle of worship. There is NO regulative principle of political national government. If you believe there is one, prove it from the scriptures.
How can religion not be enforced? Does that this world belong to Muslims, Marxists, Romanists, Mormons, Pragmatists, Objectivists ... or what? Have you not read, the stone made with out hands would occupy the space once filled by the Image of a man
Heavenly minded wrote: There is no obligation to prove a negative.
The onus is on you to prove the papal goal and practice of Christianization - e.g. his decade of "evangelization" (note very carefully that it was not evangelism) to give half the world to Jesus as a birthday present on 25th December 2000. Of course, this is just much as a lie as satan offering two-halves of the world to Christ. The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof!
Good comment. The problem is that they don't see it as a papal goal. I call it roman/protestantism. Yes, Christ is already my King, Lord and Savior and He reigns in the lives of those that follow Him. Thanks for your comment on evangelization versus evangelism. I read an article on that some time ago as it pertained to Billy Graham, but had forgotten it.
Marty wrote: Neither of you can by reference to Scripture restrict such an endeavour. It's you two that wish to restrict the manner of civil government. You mock the reformers, but even 200 years ago, what were the rates for fornication, divorce or even sodomy? How will you compensate victims and protect the weak?
I'm sorry Marty, but you may not enforce religion on anyone these days. Unless you are a Muslim and wish to impose Sharia Law on everyone; they have a holy book command to do such. But we Christians do not.
But however, I would be interested in what sort of thing you are proposing.
Neither of you can by reference to Scripture restrict such an endeavour. It's you two that wish to restrict the manner of civil government. You mock the reformers, but even 200 years ago, what were the rates for fornication, divorce or even sodomy? How will you compensate victims and protect the weak?
Marty wrote: Can anyone cite any unambiguous commands restricting the Christianizing of a city or nation? A history of failure isn't a command, nor is it proof that Christ's yoke is more burdensome than that of a humanist. By what other standard can we protect victims?
Marty, the general evangelical belief is in either the "regulative principle" or the "normative principle" when deciding action. Either way, a scriptural example is necessary before embarking on a venture. Frenchy had no such thing for his venture, and thus it was unbiblical. And IMHO ridiculous.
The onus is on you to prove the papal goal and practice of Christianization - e.g. his decade of "evangelization" (note very carefully that it was not evangelism) to give half the world to Jesus as a birthday present on 25th December 2000.
Of course, this is just much as a lie as satan offering two-halves of the world to Christ. The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof!
Can anyone cite any unambiguous commands restricting the Christianizing of a city or nation? A history of failure isn't a command, nor is it proof that Christ's yoke is more burdensome than that of a humanist. By what other standard can we protect victims?
Angela Wittman wrote: Why are you even on this forum? Is it to discourage or confuse the Lord's people?
Angela, what a terrible thing for you to say or even suggest. The issue John UK and I are discussing is a worldview that differs from yours. Surely those that disagree with you aren't necessarily trying to discourage or confuse the Lord's people. Anyone who is guilty of trying to discourage or confuse the body of Christ is not in the body of Christ. Activism will lead someone to thoughts such as yours.
Angela Wittman wrote: John UK - I am utterly shocked! Praise the Lord for bringing out the truth... I will gladly continue to study and bring those dusty old documents to the attention of others. Yes, He is sovereign and has even used your comments for good. Now I know what and who to look out for as I press on for King Jesus.
Angela, I do not understand why you are shocked. These arguments have done the rounds many times before. Or is your memory so bad? You have not one NT argument for the Geneva Experiment, with its enforced attendance etc. There is simply NO scriptural excuse for trying to Christianise entire communities. Remember.....
John UK - I am utterly shocked! Praise the Lord for bringing out the truth... I will gladly continue to study and bring those dusty old documents to the attention of others. Yes, He is sovereign and has even used your comments for good. Now I know what and who to look out for as I press on for King Jesus.
Angela now my pastor even likes to point out the some of the comments of the Puritans of New England. What happens to those who try to establish a Theonomy? They fail. This is an excellent commentary of The Unitarian Controversy and Its Puritan Roots. It really describes the spiraling downward Puritan culture.
You can't establish a Christian government without the physical presence of Christ. You certainly can't establish it with Republicans! The Record of Republican Corruption, but that is just really simplifying the problem, you aren't going to have a "city on the hill," for long because that city is made up of imperfect men.
Angela Wittman wrote: Why are you even on this forum? Is it to discourage or confuse the Lord's people?
Far be it from me to discourage any of the Lord's people, Angela. That is not the motivation. Rather I would love to see all Presbys think for themselves and come to conclusions by themselves, rather than digging out a dusty document written by ancients. Besides which, if you love the teaching of R C Sproul, who was a double predestination walla, you would never ask such questions, seeing as everything done, said, or thought, is in accordance with the will of God, to whom men are but robotic puppets who do his will continuallly as he pulls the strings in accordance with his own desire.
Praise the Lord for our Presbyterian heritage! Would one of you like to present the case that John Calvin, John Knox, or even RC Sproul was/is unscriptural? You can't... I am very disappointed in all of you who are trying to discount or malign the character of these men. Why are you even on this forum? Is it to discourage or confuse the Lord's people?
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Why are you even on this forum? Is it to discourage or confuse the Lord's people?
