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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  8/2/2015
WEDNESDAY, JUL 23, 2014  |  247 comments  |  1 commentary
Patheos: Calvinism = Wahhabism?

.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.

Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!

Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islam’s violent and extreme movements. ...


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Page 1 | Page 6 ·  Found: 247 user comment(s)
News Item7/26/14 6:07 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
P.o.t.....have been enjoying your posts.
John UK has given good councel concerning hypers, but the Arminians has also shown up, as I'm sure you are aware,
they are equally as dangerous.
147

News Item7/26/14 5:23 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
A regenerated person, i.e. born again of the Spirit, a new creation, is saved. To what end does the regenerated then believe?
Mike, you should know that in many churches you don't believe or repent of sins, you simply sit in church waiting for those magical goosebumps which are a sign of election. All you need is one goosebump and you can have your entire family baptised (regenerated) and added to the church.

PoT, you remember I mentioned earlier that there are some who are hypercalvinists, who will not call upon men to repent of their sins? Well, they have turned up. Read their posts well, and do not get caught up in their hypocrisy.

146

News Item7/26/14 5:21 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Dear Mike,

We only believe because God has given us the grace to believe. On our own we would have never believed if it weren't for Him.

145

News Item7/26/14 5:18 PM
Super Dad  Find all comments by Super Dad
JayJay writes: To The Skeptics:

Just a couple years ago, I didn't want to believe that only God could choose to save us. I wanted to be master of my own destiny, wanted to have a relationship with God on my terms. But then I came accross a couple of the verses I have sited in my posts. I didn't want to believe it. I fought it, I found every argument I humanly could for why it "wasn't true". But those verses still bothered me. I studied deeply into the meaning of each of those verses, I scoured the Bible, trying to find the truth so my conscience would let me have rest and peace. I dug int the original Greek and Hebrew, read multiple commentaries, read every verse I could, and they were all pointing in one directin: God controls salvation. It's his gift realy. Would you go up to the Gift Giver and tear a gift from his hand without invitation? He chooses who recieves, and who doesn't, no one who doesn't get a gift will want one. It is in our human heart to hate God and everything he offers to us. Only those that He chooses will love and want Him.

Very true and touching JayJay! May everybody here learn from your mistake in believing that you could control God's gift of salvation! Let us praise the Highest King for his great love and mercy in choosing us when we hated him!

144

News Item7/26/14 5:16 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
BibleSays... wrote:
PursuitofTruth writes:
ladybug wrote:
J4, No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...why? "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14
Amen! You cannot just discount scripture just because your fallen mind can not wrap itself around the FACT that only God can bring about salvation, and you are not capable of "making a decision" for God. We are Gods captives, only He can draw us towards this wonderful relationship we otherwise would never want or desire. Only e can change your desires, you can't. Read Jeremiah 10:23! If we are not capable of controling our own footsteps, then certainly we are not capable of choosing to love and want to serve God! Man only knows hatred towards God, but God in His wonderful, magnificent love takes us when we have murdered Him 1,000 times over in our hearts, and breaths love and a new life into our hearts, and only then can we love Him.
So true P. O. T.!
A regenerated person, i.e. born again of the Spirit, a new creation, is saved. To what end does the regenerated then believe?
143

News Item7/26/14 5:08 PM
BibleSays...  Find all comments by BibleSays...
PursuitofTruth writes:

ladybug wrote:

J4, No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...why? "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14

Amen! You cannot just discount scripture just because your fallen mind can not wrap itself around the FACT that only God can bring about salvation, and you are not capable of "making a decision" for God. We are Gods captives, only He can draw us towards this wonderful relationship we otherwise would never want or desire. Only e can change your desires, you can't. Read Jeremiah 10:23! If we are not capable of controling our own footsteps, then certainly we are not capable of choosing to love and want to serve God! Man only knows hatred towards God, but God in His wonderful, magnificent love takes us when we have murdered Him 1,000 times over in our hearts, and breaths love and a new life into our hearts, and only then can we love Him.

So true P. O. T.!

142

News Item7/26/14 4:56 PM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
To The Skeptics:

Just a couple years ago, I didn't want to believe that only God could choose to save us. I wanted to be master of my own destiny, wanted to have a relationship with God on my terms. But then I came accross a couple of the verses I have sited in my posts. I didn't want to believe it. I fought it, I found every argument I humanly could for why it "wasn't true". But those verses still bothered me. I studied deeply into the meaning of each of those verses, I scoured the Bible, trying to find the truth so my conscience would let me have rest and peace. I dug int the original Greek and Hebrew, read multiple commentaries, read every verse I could, and they were all pointing in one directin: God controls salvation. It's his gift realy. Would you go up to the Gift Giver and tear a gift from his hand without invitation? He chooses who recieves, and who doesn't, no one who doesn't get a gift will want one. It is in our human heart to hate God and everything he offers to us. Only those that he chooses will love and want Him.

141

News Item7/26/14 4:44 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
ladybug wrote:

J4, No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...why? "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14

Amen! You cannot just discount scripture just because your fallen mind can not wrap itself around the FACT that only God can bring about salvation, and you are not capable of "making a decision" for God. We are Gods captives, only He can draw us towards this wonderful relationship we otherwise would never want or desire. Only e can change your desires, you can't. Read Jeremiah 10:23! If we are not capable of controling our own footsteps, then certainly we are not capable of choosing to love and want to serve God! Man only knows hatred towards God, but God in His wonderful, magnificent love takes us when we have murdered Him 1,000 times over in our hearts, and breaths love and a new life into our hearts, and only then can we love Him.

140

News Item7/26/14 2:21 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
ladybug wrote:
J4J,
No one believes unless gifted with faith {see Ephesians 2:8-9}. You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...why? "Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged." 1 Cor. 2:14
Ladybug,

Been following your discussion with J4J. I've been down similar paths with him myself.

Here is a companion prophetic verse to 1 Cor 2:14 that may be helpful....

Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Circumcision of the heart is aka new birth, regeneration, quickened, etc. Clearly, God is the initiator which leads to the one being called by the gospel to come to justifying faith. The just shall live by faith aka love of God.

Blessings, sister.

139

News Item7/26/14 1:04 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
To God Be The Glory.....
"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."
2 Timothy 1:9
Oh that man would give God all the glory.....!!
138

News Item7/26/14 12:54 PM
GSTexas  Find all comments by GSTexas
1 Cor. 2:14 is speaking of lost people being being unable to know the things of God because he is spuritually dead. With that in mind, how are you going to use 1 Cor. 3: 1-3 which is adressed to BELIEVERS struggling with sin, to prove spiritually dead sinners can still choose God? The actions of saints do not prove what the lost are capable of, that is just silly.
137

News Item7/26/14 12:26 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Ladybug...
You said that 1 Cor. 2:14 says that people are unable to believe? Funny to doesn't say that. Let's look:

1 Corinthians 2:14 NASB

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

All it says is that in our flesh doesn't accept the things of God. We desire things opposed to God's word such as gluttony, adultery, slothfulness, etc. As a matter of fact, Paul could not speak to these Christians about other doctrine because they were so fleshly and struggled with what he already taught them.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 NASB

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

They too did not accept the things of the spirit, however, they did believe!

136

News Item7/26/14 11:33 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Awesome post Dorcas! Well spoken!
135

News Item7/26/14 10:55 AM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
The doctrines of grace are glorious, and we should stop trying to put the proverbial
'square peg in the round hole' by using human barometers to figure out Almighty God.
Either we have the Sovereign God of the Bible, or we have deified men and women
who can manipulate His Will, and then determine by fallen human standards what is 'fair'.
Man can never caim any spiritual territory for himself.The exaltation of man's thinking over God's is at best foolishness, and at worst, devilish. (Gen. 3:5)
134

News Item7/26/14 10:45 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Thank you John UK! Awesome post! You are truly an inspiration!
133

News Item7/26/14 10:41 AM
BibleSays...  Find all comments by BibleSays...
Amen! Let God be glorified in everything!
132

News Item7/26/14 10:39 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
P.S. Somebody will probably point out the fact that a couple of weeks ago I argued that Mormonism wasn't a cult. I never believed it was right, I just didn't think it was quite deserving of cult status! But then I saw the errors of my ways so to speak, and I publicly apologized on the Mormonism thread. I admitted that I had been wrong, and I learned from others on this form, especially John UK and ladybug! So that is no longer a tool people should use to beat over my head, for I repented of that, and have since come to a closer understanding of the fact that we need to base every argument we make on scriprure. This is why I am so pationate here on this thread and many others,because in some people I have seen a disregard, whether intentional or not, for the truth.
131

News Item7/26/14 10:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
BibleSays... wrote:
Dear John UK,
P.O.T. wrote the quote that you just sited not me. I whole heartedly agree with what you said. Praise be to God!
Aha! I see what you mean. Thank you. From the rising of the sun, to the going down of the same, the Lord's name is to be praised. And he is worthy of all praise and thanksgiving, for his grace to the sons of Adam, who are living imprisoned in nature's night and the dungeon of sin and unbelief, dead to God and godliness.
________

Yes indeed PoT. It is sufficient to have the scripture alone without introducing protestant popes. The apostle Paul spoke of these things, and so do we on this thread. Keeping an open mind, lest we become bigoted and doctrinaire, open also to rebuke or correction, taking flack when necessary, not returning evil for evil, but longsuffering, and who is able to walk with a perfect obedience to God? Not me, for sure!

130

News Item7/26/14 10:32 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
John UK,

Awesome post! That is what I have been trying to say this whole time, for which people like you and I have received all kinds of flack! Let's not view this as a competition to prove ourselves right, let's prove scripture right! Let our every word on these kinds of subjects be guided by the word of God, not man. I hope all of us can at some point come to this argument, not as Armenians vs. Calvanists, or Saints vs Sinners. Let's come to this argument willing to learn from our brethren, and when scripture doesn't smith with our stance, let's be willing to admitt we were wrong, and learn from our mistakes.

129

News Item7/26/14 10:25 AM
BibleSays...  Find all comments by BibleSays...
Dear John UK,

P.O.T. wrote the quote that you just sited not me. I whole heartedly agree with what you said. Praise be to God!

128
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