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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/25/2014
SUNDAY, OCT 20, 2013  |  147 comments
John MacArthur vs. Mark Driscoll: Megachurch pastors clash over charismatic theology
Megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll claims that his books were confiscated at the Strange Fire conference put on by another megachurch pastor John MacArthur.

Driscoll, who pastors Mars Hill Church in Seattle, is a reformed pastor who is more open to charismatic theology. MacArthur, who pastors Grace Community Church in southern California and has been named in the top 10 most influential pastors in a survey by LifeWay Research, has long criticized the charismatic movement, calling it “a farce and a scam.” ...


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Page 1 | Page 6 ·  Found: 147 user comment(s)
News Item10/21/13 9:30 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
penny wrote:
John UK -- I agree about "healers" who can demand of God to "heal now"...
but the manifestation of the Holy Spirit to heal, I have experienced one time during the laying on of hands in prayer -- followed by the Lord's inclining to me to forgive a sister in Christ and great joy in the Lord. This was a tangible, measureable health issue that had not been unresolved over a number of days.
In that sense, Penny, surely there is nothing wrong with that, being all part of sanctification. Spiritual maladies abound in all of us, and God is "healing" us by conforming us more perfectly to himself. Rebellion will surely bring chastisement, which may take the form of illness. Now if the rebellion is repented of and the illness removed, is the person "healed", or is it merely the chastisement being removed? And if it is chastisement, why do we go the GP to help us remove God's loving chastisement?

just askin'

47

News Item10/21/13 9:20 AM
penny  Find all comments by penny
John UK -- I agree about "healers" who can demand of God to "heal now"...

but the manifestation of the Holy Spirit to heal, I have experienced one time during the laying on of hands in prayer -- followed by the Lord's inclining to me to forgive a sister in Christ and great joy in the Lord. This was a tangible, measureable health issue that had not been unresolved over a number of days.

46

News Item10/21/13 9:12 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Will wrote:
Goodmorning, John uk, I'm not Tim, but couldn't the middle ground be somewhere along the lines of,
"God providentially at times of his choosing uses his power through people to heal others. This display of power is not based upon the fact that man has the power himself or simply wants to heal, but rather is an act the triune God whose end is ultimately to glorify himself throughout the healing and spread the Gospel of Christ.
Could that not be a middle ground?
Good morning Will. And yes it could be a middle ground, but more of a get-out clause for holding no doctrine on the subject. But in the current debate, the thinking would not be good enough. It has been stated that the same gifts given in the NT are the gifts given by the Holy Spirit today. So that the power Peter had to heal is the same power Christians have to heal today. But you just don't see it, anywhere.

Think about it. Have you ever seen anyone healed in an instant by a simple command. This is where folks are going wrong. They want to claim the same spiritual gifts as in Bible days, but then they claim the outworking is different. I keep an open mind, and I observe, but I've not witnessed any tangible healings.

45

News Item10/21/13 8:46 AM
penny  Find all comments by penny
Brother CV, I find the measurement of handing out a book in the parking lot against condoning as God's will the trading out of our rep for "safety" and watching the diaspora of millions, that is millions from Iraq onward to be immeasurably different.

I've lived among this modernist mindset and have watched over the years the calls to wake up, to change path, to see the sorrows, to watch our own freedoms go away.... always to no avail. The die was cast in a Scofield bk a hundred years ago, changed and tweaked by Oxford after his death. This generation has carried out his own predicitons, Pseudo Armageddon, and have not loved their own.

I would love to hear one sermon from him on the persecution of Christians in Iraq since the new party was put in. I would appreciate a sermon on the use of DU, for instance, the morality of this.

He will not take responsibility for his own teachings and prophetic leadership and its fruits.

I repented of many things, and will continue to as the Lord shows me my folly.

for instance, NSA, our grandchildren will have everything monitored, this began before O, apparatus justified during Iq set up, "give them your trust, he's a Christian" - does his generation yet know what has transpired?

44

News Item10/21/13 7:54 AM
Will | Mississippi  Find all comments by Will
Goodmorning, John uk, I'm not Tim, but couldn't the middle ground be somewhere along the lines of,
"God providentially at times of his choosing uses his power through people to heal others. This display of power is not based upon the fact that man has the power himself or simply wants to heal, but rather is an act the triune God whose end is ultimately to glorify himself throughout the healing and spread the Gospel of Christ.

Could that not be a middle ground?

43

News Item10/21/13 7:45 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Tim Wrote:
"I think the truth lies somewhere between..."
I like this because I always seem to go back and forth after hearing the arguments from both sides
Mornin' bro. Think of this:

A. God gives some of his people power to heal others.

B. God doesn't give some of his people power to heal others.

And the middle ground man says: ??????

42

News Item10/21/13 7:17 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Tim Wrote:
"I think the truth lies somewhere between..."

I like this because I always seem to go back and forth after hearing the arguments from both sides

41

News Item10/21/13 5:33 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
B.h.k wrote:
Tell me then John uk,
1. What must a man do to be saved? 2. Can a man lose his salvation?
1. Salvation is through "repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ". Repentance is necessary because we are by nature rebellious toward God. And so God works repentance in us by bringing us to our knees before him, subduing our rebellion, and actually changing our heart so that we will to do his will, thus living in submission to him. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". It is believing in Christ as Lord, and again, bending the knee to him, submitting, and accepting him as Lord. We either do this now, or at The Judgment, when EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess, that HE IS LORD. Too late!

The easy-believist will not have this, but has made up an easy-religion, where you simply "Believe in Jesus". But this is not a biblical concept.

Jesus is Lord of all, or he is not Lord at all.

Can a sinner be justified who has no intention of turning from sin?

Can a "justified" sinner later accept Jesus as Lord of his life?

Conversion produces servants NOT rebels.

2. No.
____

Thank you Florida Mike. But it is odd that many baptised will never see heaven.

40

News Item10/21/13 12:37 AM
Dolores L | Texas  Find all comments by Dolores L
Thanks Michael Hranek for your kind words to Timmy. I came back to God(I had been backsliden and out of Church for years) when I went to my mother-in-laws old timey pentecostal church and found my way back to God. It doesn't matter what Church you find God in and get saved in and that's all that is important..that you got saved!
39

News Item10/21/13 12:07 AM
Mike | Florida  Find all comments by Mike
John uk.
JC belived in Grace alone.
We our saved by Grace Alone.
Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
But why should all our children be baptized, when we know that not all will be saved? For the same reason that we bring them all under the preaching of the gospel. Believing parents have all their children baptized because they understand that baptism is a kind of visible gospel that will have the same twofold fruit among their children that the preaching of the gospel has, according to God's own purpose in predestination. Baptism, like the gospel, they believe, will be used by God for the salvation of those of their children who are elect, and for the condemnation of the rest.
Thus infant baptism teaches us that salvation does not depend on us, but on the sovereign grace of God, who grants salvation to sinners in the same way that they came under condemnation in Adam, that is, without their knowledge.

38

News Item10/20/13 10:57 PM
Veritas Cafe  Find all comments by Veritas Cafe
and in this corner with a church seating "thousand people" its.... uugghhh are they really doing this like a prize fight. What a terrible example for non believers.
37

News Item10/20/13 10:09 PM
Valencia | Bahamas  Find all comments by Valencia
ECM wrote:
Both Mark Driscoll and James McDonald showed up Friday according to news reports and Twitter chatter. Both MacDonald and Driscoll were not invited by Grace Church to be there, nor did they pay to come as attendees. Driscoll did not ask if he could come to the conference to hand out his literature. The question is pretty simple: If they were not invited and did not follow protocol, why did they take it upon themselves to do this? I believe it is because they have big egos and think they are pretty big stuff. Actually, their immature actions reflect their juvenile character. In the words of the great philosopher Forrest Gump: stupid is as stupid does.
This was nothing but a publicity stunt from a couple of "pastors" whose testimonies are quite unbecoming. This stunt just adds to the argument that these two are simply carnal men who are always about pushing carnal means.
36

News Item10/20/13 8:58 PM
CV  Find all comments by CV
penny wrote:
it amazes me that such an aggressive generation that has encouraged such aggressions overseas, could be so offended because a pastor in the parking lot passes out a book contrary to their views.
Not to belabour this point because it doe's not add to the understanding of the bible.

This conference was put on by GTY by their money on their property. They are NOT obligated to provide a table to Driscol or Muslims.

This was not a government styfling all forms of free speech so Driscol had sneak in and run gourilla warfare. Critize, but pay for your own program. Why diddn't Driscol go through the proper approval process. Sneaky!

I don't agree with Macarthur on everything. But I wouldn't waste any time on Driscol, let alone encourage his type of agression

35

News Item10/20/13 7:36 PM
B.h.k | Alabama  Find all comments by B.h.k
Tell me then John uk,
What must a man do to be saved? Can a man lose his salvation?
34

News Item10/20/13 6:21 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
B.h.k wrote:
Yes! Lordship salvation garbage. Teaching faith plus works to be saved is garbage.
I'm not at all sure you are correct about that.

"Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Eph. 2:1-5,8). Real faith therefore cannot be defective or short-lived but endures forever (Phil. 1:6; cf. Heb. 11). In contrast, easy-believism teaches that faith might not last and that a true Christian can completely cease believing."

From An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

Have a read, and see if your evaluation is errant or correct. You could even use the article to make your point, if you like.

33

News Item10/20/13 6:15 PM
penny  Find all comments by penny
it amazes me that such an aggressive generation that has encouraged such aggressions overseas, leading to the suffering of millions.... could be so offended because a pastor in the parking lot passes out a book contrary to their views.
32

News Item10/20/13 6:06 PM
B.h.k | Alabama  Find all comments by B.h.k
Yes! Lordship salvation garbage. Teaching faith plus works to be saved is garbage. If you listen carefully to this mans sermons you'll learn this is what he teaches. We are saved by grace through faith period and not of works lest any man should boast. Yes we should serve god and live a life separate from the world because we love god but not to be saved. The charismatic and Pentecostal movement is nothing but a bunch of garbage too. Beats all I've ever seen!
31

News Item10/20/13 5:42 PM
CS  Find all comments by CS
B.h.k wrote...Lordship salvation garbage??
And what might that be...loving and serving the Lord Jesus Christ?
Not to be saved but because we are!
It is my duty to obey my Lord and Saviour.
30

News Item10/20/13 5:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
I want to know what a " Calvinist baptist " is ...! Isn't that a oxymoron..? Calvin detested the anabaptist. What a ecumenical stew.! MacArthur, states. Infant baptism, is a doctrine of demons..! Why all these baptist, branding themselves as reformed Calvinist?
Precisely, Florida Mike.

Christians who believed the biblical doctrines of free and sovereign grace, and who discerned the errors of Presbyterianism, took the WCF and made the necessary corrections, and formed the London Baptists, later Particular (or Strict) Baptists, with a confession called the 1689 Baptist Confession. They were quite separate from anabaptists.

Sometimes they were called Calvinists, but only because some of their doctrine tallied with JC's doctrine. They arrived at them the same way JC did, through study and prayer. But JC did not spend enough time in prayer on the subject of baptism and the covenants. That is why Reformed Baptists should not call themselves Calvinists.

Well, in my honest opinion, that is!

Wow, I really opened a can didn't I?

29

News Item10/20/13 5:22 PM
B.h.k | Alabama  Find all comments by B.h.k
As far as I'm concerned john mcauthor hasn't hot any room to critize anyone. He needs to get pad this lordship salvation garbage before he worries about anybody else's teachings.
28
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