Islamic extremists from Somalia‚Äôs rebel Al-Shabaab militants on Friday (Nov. 16) killed a Christian in Somalia‚Äôs coastal city of Barawa, accusing him of being a spy and leaving Islam, Christian and Muslim witnesses said.
The extremists beheaded 25-year-old Farhan Haji Mose after monitoring his movements for six months, Christian sources said. Mose drew suspicion when he returned to Barawa, in Somalia‚Äôs Lower Shebelle Region, in December 2011 after spending time in Kenya, underground Christians in Somalia told Morning Star News....
Dwayne wrote: So all men are capable of loving, worshiping and obeying their creator?
It is very difficult - nay impossible - to worship, love and obey a being whose existence is not believed in. The atheist will refuse the gospel call because they do not believe a gospel call exists, and they believe the preacher is a nutter.
So the answer to your question is no, not all men are capable of loving, worshipping and obeying their creator.
I know God is still in charge. I'm not trying to act as if I'm bigger than God because I am not! I am a vile sinner saved only by grace! Praise God he has made a way for us poor sinners to get to heaven!! This is what's glorious! And now God says In Acts 17
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
ALL MEN Some will and many wont! Why? because some will be obedient and many will be disobediant. A child must choose to obey his parents otherwise there are consequences. A child that chooses not to obey will suffer consequences. Is that so hard to figure out?
Dwayne wrote: The latter makes God look like a dictater
Sure, if you misunderstand the doctrines of grace.
Acts 5:17-20 KJV 17 Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation, 18 And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison. 19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said, 20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.
Was the angel of the Lord acting as a dictator? Or setting free God's chosen and elect servants by the will of God, readily accepted by the apostles.
Use this as a comparison with gospel liberation from sin and death, and it will help you to get it right.
For me, I am very glad that God did not leave me to myself, or I should have perished long ago. But his love will not allow for that, it is a love which will have people saved, no matter what the cost.
Lurker My assurance lies in the finished work of Christ! I understand that Christ does everything to save us but what I don't agree with is that he made me get saved because I was chosen. Consider eve in the garden.. If she was totally deprived then she would have not needed to be deceived because her evil heart would have done it anyway.
You keep on saying how God is not getting his due glory.
I say God gets more glory when man chooses to obey him rather than God choosing a random person and making that person obey him. The latter makes God look like a dictater
Thanks Lurker. Yes, that helped and I do understand, however, I don't really comprehend it..if that even makes sense. What's funny is that when I pray, I DO thank God for choosing me but I feel very awkward saying it because of the wicked life I've led. I always wonder why because we have all lived at different levels of sinfulness, but mine, although not the worst, was right up there somewhere. This makes me wonder why on Earth He would choose me as opposed to someone who lived a decent life, at least according to worldly standards. The awkwardness comes in when I feel like I bumped out someone who was never guilty of a fraction of the things that I am...total unworthyness, I guess. Anyway, I do understand but I could never expound on it or venture clarity if anyone happened to ask for now.
What makes you say I'm not giving God his due glory?
I praise God he saved me!
It's not my purpose to hammer on you about the evils of freewill theism, whether real or imagined, so thanks for your reply.
The answer to your question is: Your own words, Dwayne. You rightly praise God for your salvation, as do all professing Christians, but you withhold praise to God for your assurance of salvation, crediting it rather to your freewill act of choosing Him instead.
The text I quoted from 1 John speaks of the only assurance of a right standing with God which will not leave anyone who has it ashamed on the last day. It is my hope that you will thankfully take that text to heart and permit God's work in you, and you in Him, to be your assurance as John teaches so that you can release your tight grip on freewill theism as your assurance and reconsider the truth of it, or lack thereof, objectively.... biblically.
As long as your assurance is grounded in your decision, you can't do that and sleep at night.
. . .
I hope this explanation was helpful to you as well.
Mike wrote: 1. I wonder at what level of unworthiness is the application of such grace made? Or is it a mere lottery? Is it the more unworthy, or the less unworthy that are chosen? Or are all equally unworthy, but some are just lucky enough to be selected for salvation before their existence, while the rest of the unborn, unlucky slobs are pre-damned for eternity? Random selective salvation is a strange philosophy. 2. Isn't it interesting that Adam is not presented as having lost eternal life via his sin, yet most of his descendants are presented as having eternal condemnation before they are ever born, and this for Adam's sin?
1. Mike, if God chose not to be gracious to any, none would complain because all are guilty and worthy of condemnation. Complainers always hate to see some being blessed but not others. They find it irksome, bro.
2. Whoever said that? Of course Adam lost eternal life by his sin. Just the same as I lost eternal life by my sin. And it won't do to blame Adam for being born condemned; that's as bad as blaming Christ for the free gift of justification.
Mike wrote: I wonder at what level of unworthiness? Or is it a mere lottery?
some are just lucky enough to be selected
interesting that Adam
Lottery? No of course not. God - foreknowledge, creator and predestination are important terms in this discussion. They must be factored in.
Foreknowledge - God knew exactly what was ahead, after all He made everything as creator sovereign and omniscient/omnipotent. We undervalue God by not taking these divine attributes into consideration with the outcome of saved/reprobation. Ultimately heaven as well as hell have a prominent part to play in creation's outcome and predestination 'per' the will of God.
God with omniscient foreknowledge created some for heaven and some for hell. Or as Paul puts it, "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Both the elect and the reprobate are equally unworthy. The elect chosen before the world was formed (including Adam) receive salvation ONLY because of Christ. The reprobate receive justice for their sins. The difference between the two is in God's will, purpose and (fore)choice. Nothing man can do is of any significance whatsoever to the end result. Hence the end is all of grace.
Mike wrote: I wonder at what level of unworthiness is the application of such grace made? Or is it a mere lottery? Is it the more unworthy, or the less unworthy that are chosen? Or are all equally unworthy, but some are just lucky enough to be selected for salvation before their existence, while the rest of the unborn, unlucky slobs are pre-damned for eternity? Random selective salvation is a strange philosophy. Isn't it interesting that Adam is not presented as having lost eternal life via his sin, yet most of his descendants are presented as having eternal condemnation before they are ever born, and this for Adam's sin?
I have heard folks say that election is a terrible concept because it is random and unfair, etc. The scripture John UK provided said according to His good pleasure and will. Now if something is done according to His good pleasure and will, I would say that was "perfectly" just and compassionate. Why God chooses one ("sinner" John ) over another is a mystery, but according to His will doesn't allow for a lottery concept. Lastly even though I disagree with John over the fate of infants, if God sent every aborted baby to hell, it is still His choice and it would be PERFECTLY JUST.
John UK wrote: As I see it... Ephesians 1:4-6 KJV 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Before the world was made, God chose to save some. ---
I wonder at what level of unworthiness is the application of such grace made? Or is it a mere lottery? Is it the more unworthy, or the less unworthy that are chosen? Or are all equally unworthy, but some are just lucky enough to be selected for salvation before their existence, while the rest of the unborn, unlucky slobs are pre-damned for eternity? Random selective salvation is a strange philosophy.
Isn't it interesting that Adam is not presented as having lost eternal life via his sin, yet most of his descendants are presented as having eternal condemnation before they are ever born, and this for Adam's sin?
..who oppose the doctrines of free and sovereign grace.
Here's a perfect example of my limited knowledge...I have no clue what that even means...ha-ha. That may as well have been written in ancient Samarian. No need to respond because I know it's a long, deep topic for discussion. I have an advantage over others in that I've read and listened to the Bible many times over the years, but things do much, much deeper than I was aware. Now I know how people can literally spend their lifetimes studying the Bible. I just wish God would have clarified some things so there wasn't so much disagreement. The salvation process is crystal clear to me, along with all of the rules for Christian living, but there are many curiosities that cause contention like the most recent topic concerning that fate of children, etc.
Christopher, good to hear from you as always. You'll soon get used to the way some folks post here. It is a good sanctifying ground, so take everything as a gift from God, and you will shed some of your sensitivity. The key text is:
1 Thessalonians 4:9 KJV 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
I don't see why folks shouldn't differ on some points yet still respect one another as brothers in Christ. I have many friends here who oppose the doctrines of free and sovereign grace, yet whom I regard as dear bothers in the Lord. I shall happily stand with them as the "redeemed of the Lord" when we get to heaven, and all doctrine will be understood better.
Now if you want to debate the "giants in the land" and these Nephilim, you'll need a better theological than I am.
John UK wrote: Good morning Christopher. No, you have not offended me in any way. In fact, I very much enjoy reading your out-loud thoughts. They reveal a brother who is grappling with issues and doctrines, comparing them with scripture, looking for truth, getting in a spin, and generally going through a process which we all are going through. There is no end to the learning process concerning God, because he is Almighty, and we are like little peas in a pod. (or rather sheep in the pen.) So post away to your heart's content and let no man dissuade you. The Lord prefers "hot or cold", not the insipid lukewarmness which characterises many today. Keep the fire going bro!
Amen to that, John. As you say, may Christopher post away.
Hi Lurker, can you explain your response in simple terms? I would have worded it just like DuWayne did so I'm not understanding something because that makes sense to me. I don't really understand this predestination/foreknowledge stuff as each is applied to the salvation/election process. I know you are right, so don't misunderstand...I just don't understand where the thought goes wrong. I'm still amazed almost everyday at how much I've had wrong...even the most simple of things. Some of you make my head hurt. I'm excited to learn, but get stressed over how much I now realize that I have to learn (or re-learn). Ug.