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SUNDAY, APRIL 20, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
Choice News MONDAY, AUG 19, 2013| 146 comments
Presbyterian Church (USA) drops In Christ Alone from hymnal

An extraordinary dispute has arisen over a lyric contained one of the most beloved contemporary Christian hymns of the modern-day Church, "In Christ Alone".

According to Bob Smietana of USA Today, the committee putting together a new hymnal for the Presbyterian Church (USA) dropped the popular hymn because the song's authors refused to change a phrase about the wrath of God.

He said that the original lyrics say that "on that cross, as Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied."

The Presbyterian Committee on Congregational Song wanted to substitute the words, "the love of God was magnified." ...


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www.christiantoday.com

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Page 1 | Page 5 ·  Found: 146 user comment(s)
News Item8/23/13 4:50 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Michael Hranek wrote:
US wrote:
Basically I just wanted to give credit to Unprofitable Servant who credit is due for his excellent post.

It reminded me of:
"....He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
....."

66

News Item8/23/13 3:12 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
US wrote:
You know I got to pondering this and realize I have been all wrong in my attitude toward the Psalm only crowd. I have to say my heart is now saddened by the state in which they find themselves. While I can sing about the fountain filled with blood that washes my sins away (OT but not Psalms) they can only hang their harps in the willows. While I can with Newton say of the Lord Jesus that His name yields the richest perfume,And sweeter than music His voice; His presence disperses my gloom, And makes all within me rejoice.They can not sing of such joyous fellowship with our Savior. While I can say with Watts Forbid it Lord that I should boast save in the death of Christ my God, they have no song that can echo that sentiment. While I can sing all hail the power of Jesus name and Worthy is the lamb that was slain, they have no anthems of praise to our Lord Jesus. While I can testify that I am my beloved and my beloved is mine, alas that is in not in the Psalms. While I can rejoice that even in the midst of trials, my sin not in part but the whole was nailed to the cross and thus it is well with my soul, not a word can be sung in their churches about our precious Savior the Lord Jesus. The songs of the glories of heaven will not find a voice in their assembly. How sad
65

News Item8/23/13 3:00 PM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
John UK wrote:
1. it's just blah blah time
2. whatever tune?
3. you consider God's word insufficient or ill-measured, that you have to wholesale metricate it
1. More insults again John. Christians don't do that. May the Lord forgive you.

2. Precentor.

3. The psalms, hymns and spiritual songs which are the book of Psalms, were first written by versification in Hebrew. The change in versification came about by translation into other languages such as English. The metrical psalms we read in English today are making use of our language so that we can read them.
_________

Unprofitable Servant wrote:
You are saying that the only acceptable book for songs in an Old Testament book. But when it comes to instruments
I could give you the whole theological discussion for that point Ups. But I am only allowed 1300 characters. So if you are really serious about this side of the debate then please see

http://www.westminsterconfession.org/worship/instrumental-music-in-worship-commanded-or-not-commanded.php

Excuse the written version - Hyperlink not working again.

BTW I am serious about this. I'm not just being awkward. NOT using the psalms for the purpose God wrote them is a genuine quandary to me.

64

News Item8/23/13 7:25 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
You know I got to pondering this and realize I have been all wrong in my attitude toward the Psalm only crowd. I have to say my heart is now saddened by the state in which they find themselves. While I can sing about the fountain filled with blood that washes my sins away (OT but not Psalms) they can only

not a word can be sung in their churches about our precious Savior the Lord Jesus. The songs of the glories of heaven will not find a voice in their assembly. How sad

Unprofitable Servant
Brother, thank you so much for your post.

What a great blessing for a child of God to have the LIBERTY to sing songs of worship and praise to and about our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ!!! and NOT be robbed of it by the fear of men/women who have set themselves up as experts in religion, who wrest Biblical things like the Pharisees did with the Sabbath

Hmmmm, If memory serves me, wasn't the way that Pharisees wanted Jesus to keep the Sabbath one of the major reasons they wanted to kill Him? Could we say something like, 'The Psalms were written for man, not that man was made for the Psalms Only?'

Again, I will thank God for your post, and "weep" over the "Psalms Only" crowd and the hurt they should not be causing.

63

News Item8/22/13 11:15 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
SteveR wrote:
I might consider you (Lurker) a servant of Satan for your constant hatred of HIS people in other Churches, but not because of the drums.
Figured I had better set this straight since your memory seems to be a bit cloudy.

I don't hate RC's. I married one and we're still happily married after nearly 44 years. She has 11 siblings and I love them all. I know many RC's in our community and I get along just fine with many of them.

What I hate, Steve, is the RCC machinery which has deceived my dear wife, her siblings and many of my friends and neighbors from childhood into believing they must do good deeds to cooporate in their eventual salvation.

Just as a parrot can be taught to mimic the human voice; so a catholic can be taught to mimic a Christian. But God is not fooled by the outward appearances which seem so pious and God honoring. He will discern what animates the outward appearance and if it isn't the Holy Spirit they will all perish.

Instead of misrepresenting me, why not join me in prayer that God has mercy on my loved ones? In fact, why not take my petition to your congregation?

. . .

Bro. US,

Just wanted to say I've enjoyed your contributions to this discussion and especially your most recent. How sad, indeed.

62

News Item8/22/13 10:59 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
You know I got to pondering this and realize I have been all wrong in my attitude toward the Psalm only crowd. I have to say my heart is now saddened by the state in which they find themselves. While I can sing about the fountain filled with blood that washes my sins away (OT but not Psalms) they can only hang their harps in the willows. While I can with Newton say of the Lord Jesus that His name yields the richest perfume,And sweeter than music His voice; His presence disperses my gloom, And makes all within me rejoice.They can not sing of such joyous fellowship with our Savior. While I can say with Watts Forbid it Lord that I should boast save in the death of Christ my God, they have no song that can echo that sentiment. While I can sing all hail the power of Jesus name and Worthy is the lamb that was slain, they have no anthems of praise to our Lord Jesus. While I can testify that I am my beloved and my beloved is mine, alas that is in not in the Psalms. While I can rejoice that even in the midst of trials, my sin not in part but the whole was nailed to the cross and thus it is well with my soul, not a word can be sung in their churches about our precious Savior the Lord Jesus. The songs of the glories of heaven will not find a voice in their assembly. How sad
61

News Item8/22/13 10:04 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
SteveR wrote:
There isnt a prooftext denying contemporary hymns, just as there isnt a prooftext that denies baptism to infants. My point is that the prolific hypocrites on this message board that cite Sola Scriptura to demean other Christians themselves gladly feed their fleshy desires of worship.
Alright. I admit I missed your point earlier and possible the same point from Presby.

However, I believe you are stretching the spirit of Sola Scriptura beyond its original intent. As I recall it came into existance during the Reformation as a counter to the RCC Sacred Tradition being on equal par with Scripture. Now you want Sola Scriptura to include a song book? Can you provide a 16th or 17th century commentary which holds to this belief, preferably other than a Presby?

SteveR wrote:
imo- I dont think your voodoo drums belong in the Worship of my God, but I dont categorize your entire Church as Satan worshippers if you use them.
OK.

At least you are honest enough to admit that contemporary hymns are not prohibited by scripture even though you stopped short of admitting that PO is not commanded by scripture. Ah well. The good and necessary consequence of your comment will have to suffice.

Voodoo drums?

60

News Item8/22/13 7:00 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Let me get this straight. You are saying that the only acceptable book for songs in an Old Testament book. But when it comes to instruments, like the ones found in that same Old Testament book are not acceptable? You don't find a huge contradiction there? Hope you don't have sound system at your church PO, not found in the early church or Scripture. Hope you don't use a printed Bible in your own language on thin paper, they only had scrolls in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek and the printing press was not invented until 1450. Hope they don't have a building that was built using modern machinery or a paved parking lot or people get their in vehicles. None of those in the Bible or early church. We should do all to the glory of God. You know you will look in vain to find anyone using a computer, tablets or smartphones in the Bible, so we should not be here having this discussion more than likely.

15. Singing songs that praise God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in hymns diminishes respect for the Holy Trinity?
16. Statement is inaccurate, but really, you think the world looks to the church for permission to dishonor God?
17. You ditch 65 books and we use them all.
18. You sit there and quote commentaries and confessions and say we use traditions?

59

News Item8/22/13 6:18 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Psalms Only wrote:
"The conclusion to which we are driven is this: God has not commanded us to use musical instruments in New Testament worship.
P Only
Neither did He command you to have central heat and air conditioning.
Or pews to sit on.
58

News Item8/22/13 6:09 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
1. So only the psalms are inspired?
2. Acceptance of one part of Scripture is rejection of another?
3. So singing a song from Psalm 23 is not entertainment, but singing a song out of Revelation 11 is? Who makes that determination, certainly not found in Scripture.
4. So singing Praise God from whom all blessing flow is idolatry worshiping the creature?
5. Singing Great is Thy Faithfulness is removing part of Scripture? Lamentations not in your Bible?
6. Singing Praise the Lord, Praise the Lord let the earth hear his voice is replacing God ordained praise? (anybody else seeing how ridiculous this sounds?)
7. You think there is no Word of God in hymns? ahh you are sadly mislead and mistaken
8. Nothing but a FALSE accusation, the Bible says what do you have that you have not received, the ability to write music and hymns is a gift from God.
9. You are the one adding to the Scripture by adding the commandment of men as the Word of God.
10 - 13. All false accusations,again the people who wrote the psalms were all sinners, God inspired the WORD of God, the writers were not magically transformed; seems like someone else is also known as the accuser of the brethren
14. Forbidding praising the Lord with stringed instruments (which you do)that isn't stopping God ordained worsh
57

News Item8/22/13 5:47 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Psalms Only wrote:
blah blah blah
Well I suppose I didn't really expect an answer, did I? I've got used to this over the years, it's just blah blah time, all over again.

I wasn't asking about the use of instrumental music, was I? Duh!

What I asked was, what TUNES do you utilise when you are singing the psalms? Or do you sing monotone? Or use plainchant?

Or do you all start up singing psalm 100 with whatever tune comes into your head? You know, a bit like what happens in charismatic circles, make it up on the spur of the moment?

Oh and while I'm at it, I would also like to know why it is that you consider God's word insufficient or ill-measured, that you have to wholesale metricate it, so that it forms into a beat, making it possible to have a rock band perform the backing music. If David and others wrote the psalms for worship, why do you have to alter them so much? It also makes it difficult to memorise them, unless you want to swap the Bible for metricated psalms psalter.

Now I'm off to bed, so you have plenty of time to weigh up your answers; and please let us have no more of this blah blah blah nonsense, or I may have to tell you off.

56

News Item8/22/13 5:23 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
I take it you did know that "Christmas" is derived from "Christ's Mass", and that this was the first time any unbiblical people (the RCC) tried to incorporate non-biblical ideas concerning the birth of Christ into worship? And see how it has grown! What a success for the antichrist, to pretend to celebrate the birth of The Saviour, when all the time it is totally opposed to the Son of God. Astonishing, but yeah, quite a coup for the devil working through his army of gullible and unregenerate people, all of them baptised as babies to make them Catholics. Yeah, great stuff!
You have a very shallow spirituality JohnUK. Just because someone like a Charles Manson would call himself 'christ' doesnt mean you have to believe him like the gullible fools that killed for him
55

News Item8/22/13 5:20 PM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
John UK wrote:
tunes
"The conclusion to which we are driven is this: God has not commanded us to use musical instruments in New Testament worship. We have seen that God did not authorize (command) the use of musical instruments until the time of Moses (even if we consider the trumpets used in the tabernacle to be instruments of music). When they were authorized (commanded), they were clearly a part of the shadowy ceremonial system. And even in the Old Testament period, worship (except that which was performed by the priests and Levites at the temple in Jerusalem) was commonly offered without musical instruments. Worship in the ancient synagogue was always devoid of such. So was the worship of the early church. Never in the New Testament do we find mention of their use. What we do find is an abundance of teaching to the effect that the whole system of tabernacle and temple worship (shadowy and typical in nature) has been abolished. It follows, therefore, that the use of musical instruments is not authorized in the worship of the church today." (G.I.Williamson)
54

News Item8/22/13 3:35 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
PO, what tunes do you use at your church to sing your psalms? Or do you employ monotones like some of the Catholics, or maybe plainchant?
53

News Item8/22/13 3:29 PM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
John UK wrote:
Or don't folks believe that God blesses
Replacing Psalms with Hymns says:
1. Church prefers uninspired works.
2. Church rejects the inspired Psalms.
3. Church states need for human entertainment.
4. Church directs worship to creature rather than creator. Idolatry.
5. Church removes part of Scripture.
6. Church replaces God ordained praise for human works.
7. Church diminishes place of Bible by removing Word of God.
8. Church rejects the Work of God in worship. Blasphemy.
9. Church (a) takes away from Scripture, and (b) Adds to Scripture. (Rev 22:18.19)
10. Church dismisses "inspiration" as inconsequential. Blasphemy.
11. Church perceives sinners compositions as superior to God's. Blasphemy.
12. Church removes inspired Scripture intended for doctrine and supplants entertainment. Idolatry.
13. Church dishonors and disgraces ordained worship with human arrogance to provide human entertainment instead. Blasphemy.
14. Church does not praise God as HE ordains.
15. Church diminishes respect for God, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
16. Church provides society with excuse for disobedience of Scripture.
17. Church teaches parts of Bible may be ditched.
18. Church teaches Roman Catholic premise of "Traditions" acceptable.
52

News Item8/22/13 3:21 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
Northern Europeans whether of the RC, Lutheran or Reformed tradition, wouldnt let go of their celebration of the winter solstice. Scapgoating Catholics for this simply demonstrates your ignorance of traditional ecclesiology.
I take it you did know that "Christmas" is derived from "Christ's Mass", and that this was the first time any unbiblical people (the RCC) tried to incorporate non-biblical ideas concerning the birth of Christ into worship? And see how it has grown! What a success for the antichrist, to pretend to celebrate the birth of The Saviour, when all the time it is totally opposed to the Son of God. Astonishing, but yeah, quite a coup for the devil working through his army of gullible and unregenerate people, all of them baptised as babies to make them Catholics. Yeah, great stuff!
51

News Item8/22/13 3:13 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
Quite right, Steve. Having first been brought in by the RCC heretics as Christ's Mass, it would be ridiculous for any Protestant group to follow that heretical lead.
Xmas is OUT!
Northern Europeans whether of the RC, Lutheran or Reformed tradition, wouldnt let go of their celebration of the winter solstice. Scapgoating Catholics for this simply demonstrates your ignorance of traditional ecclesiology.
50

News Item8/22/13 3:02 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
If your hymnal contains any lyrics about December 25th, mistletoe,or Christmas trees you are by your own definition heretics.
Quite right, Steve. Having first been brought in by the RCC heretics as Christ's Mass, it would be ridiculous for any Protestant group to follow that heretical lead.

Xmas is OUT!

49

News Item8/22/13 3:01 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Lurker wrote:
Still grasping at straws to get someone, anyone, to bow down to your traditions? I'm so embarrassed for you.
If psalms only is so obvious, why is it that no one is able to post even one prooftext to establish the tradition as biblical? (I will even lower the bar to a good and necesary consequence if that will help.) Is it a members only secret?
There isnt a prooftext denying contemporary hymns, just as there isnt a prooftext that denies baptism to infants. My point is that the prolific hypocrites on this message board that cite Sola Scriptura to demean other Christians themselves gladly feed their fleshy desires of worship.

imo- I dont think your voodoo drums belong in the Worship of my God, but I dont categorize your entire Church as Satan worshippers if you use them. I might consider you (Lurker) a servant of Satan for your constant hatred of HIS people in other Churches, but not because of the drums.

48

News Item8/22/13 11:27 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
The answer to every question like this one is simply to look for that church which God is mighty pleased with and is blessing its socks off. After all, he's not going to bless them that are disobeying him, now will he? And I'm not talking numerical but spiritual blessings.

Or don't folks believe that God blesses people any more?

47
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