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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/22/2014
SATURDAY, DEC 29, 2012  |  134 comments  |  1 commentary
Chicago police confirm 'tragic number' of 500 homicides
Chicago reached “a tragic number” today, according to Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy: Its homicide total for the year hit 500, the highest annual total since 2008.

The city's latest homicide occurred around 9 p.m. Thursday when Nathaniel T. Jackson, 40, an alleged gang member with a lengthy arrest record, was gunned down outside a store in the Austin neighborhood.

As of Thursday night, homicides were up 17 percent over last year in Chicago and shootings had increased by 11 percent, according to police statistics. Earlier this fall, Chicago already exceeded the number of homicides that occurred last year, but this is the first time the city has had 500 or more murders since the 512 in 2008. ...


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Page 1 | Page 5 ·  Found: 134 user comment(s)
News Item1/1/13 7:18 PM
Publican | Northern Hemisphere  Find all comments by Publican
Forcing the necessity of 'like' or 'as', on this scripture to mean something, is an imposition on the Word of God, and this 'rule' is contradicted hundreds of times in the bible. Please don't make me enumerate them.
This entire scenario is spiritual: dead Christians in heaven; Angel binding dragon, where there is no reference to time, only activity.
Again, this is using the scripture to define scripture. Not my reasoning, not current events, nothing but God's word. My hermeneutic is using scripture to interpret scripture. No one has refuted my explanation of the term 'no more', the binding of Satan, or anything else. Again, the 'rule' set up for the interpretation of 'thousand', is not followed in scripture. When my post is waved away, not by bringing me to bar of scripture, but merely labeling it as obfuscation, wrong, or presupposition; I took that as mocking. Forgive me if that was not the intention. I am full of alacrity toward our continued communications.
As far as me being RC; you can't be serious. Long ago, I was the one who completely destroyed even the concept of the existence of a pope. But again, no one wanted to hear it. I even pursued everyone to answer the challenge. I got nothing.
On the side; do we believe that the 144,000 is 144,000?
54

News Item1/1/13 6:46 PM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Publican wrote:
...
I don't know if you confess to be Roman Catholic but your arguments are the same I have encountered in witnessing to Roman Catholics and your doctrine aligns with theirs regarding this matter. It is what they do with nearly all scripture, that which should be taken literally, they go figurative and that which is figurative they take literally. The Bible says "a thousand" or "the thousand" in the following scripture, I encourage you to believe the word thousand to mean one greater than 999 or 1 less than 1,001. God is not trying to trick you.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a THOUSAND years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the THOUSAND years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a THOUSAND year

53

News Item1/1/13 6:10 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Publican wrote:
---
What have I said that is not in accord with, not the end time scenario in vogue, but the bible?
You said: "Satan had free reign to move men to crucify the Lord; not knowing that he was bound by God to do His will in the accomplishment of God's design."

The Bible says(Rev. 20:3) "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

You have not made the case that the binding of which you speak is the binding of which Scripture speaks, for at no time during the Lord's earthly walk were the nations free of deception. Nor are they today.

You said: "The words 'no more' should not be disturbing to anyone; particularly in the light of the qualifier, 'until'. Where would be the mischief to say, 'I will put you in prison that you may be able to do thus and such no more, until you are freed'?

If the "thus and such" were that the nations were no longer to be deceived till(the qualifier) a time period was up, the mischief would be to present such a time period as having already occurred.

52

News Item1/1/13 5:53 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Publican wrote:
All the derogation in the world does not refute what I have said.
So far, I have seen no rebuttal. No presuppositions. The only analogy I have used is to explain my reasoning. I have checked these posts and found none of them using the Word of God, with the exception of those that support what I am saying. All others have merely declared me wrong, while providing no scriptural evidence to contradict me. As I said years ago, 'Some may receive laughter for answers and mocking for reasons; but I am not among them.' I need something from the Word of God. What have I said that is not in accord with, not the end time scenario in vogue, but the bible?
Well my friend, you didn't read all the posts. It was noted that the Holy Spirit used the expression 1,000 years 6 times in Re 20 and there was no modifier to suggest it was not literal. No, "like" something else or no "as" something else that would indicate figurative speech or an analogy. Now if that concept of literal isn’t adhered to, then what hermeneutic do you use to decide what is literal or figurative. That is the objection I and others have with your hermeneutic. That is the refutation you are mentioning.

No one that I am aware of mocked anything you said?

51

News Item1/1/13 5:10 PM
Publican | Northern Hemisphere  Find all comments by Publican
All the derogation in the world does not refute what I have said.
So far, I have seen no rebuttal. No presuppositions. The only analogy I have used is to explain my reasoning. I have checked these posts and found none of them using the Word of God, with the exception of those that support what I am saying. All others have merely declared me wrong, while providing no scriptural evidence to contradict me. As I said years ago, 'Some may receive laughter for answers and mocking for reasons; but I am not among them.' I need something from the Word of God. What have I said that is not in accord with, not the end time scenario in vogue, but the bible?
50

News Item1/1/13 4:41 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Publican wrote:
---
Remember, the binding of Satan in the image is representative.
We all know that the great work of our Lord will not be put off, nay, not even altered. Hence, the Jewish rulers, who did not want to murder Jesus at the Passover, had no power to prevent it. We needed Satan to subject our Lord to His trials to fulfill prophecy. But he could not hinder the accomplishment of our salvation. He was absolutely powerless. In our view, Satan had free reign to move men to crucify the Lord; not knowing that he was bound by God to do His will in the accomplishment of God's design. Had he known that he was doing God's will in order to our salvation, do you think he would have done it? 'Released' immediately after the fulfillment of such, he has been deceiving the nations ever since.
This is what is known as obfuscation, necessary that a particular hermeneutic might not falter, though the intention may be honorable. And as has been pointed out, presupposition has been brought in. We might contrast this with that of the children of whom Jesus said:
",Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." Mark 10:14
Perhaps the difference is their lack of theological presupposition, vs adults.
49

News Item1/1/13 4:19 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Christopher000 wrote:
Publican...just wanted to thank you for remaining civil. These issues can get pretty heated at times so it's great to just have a normal conversation without the flame wars just because one may disagree with another...
I agree Christopher; Publican remained very civil, very confident, and very wrong. If someone uses his method of hermeneutics, they can come up with any doctrine they choose. They simply say something is an analogy when they don't like what it says. Literal where literal, figurative where figurative; just like reading any other book. Well sort of.
48

News Item1/1/13 3:47 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Publican...just wanted to thank you for remaining civil. These issues can get pretty heated at times so it's great to just have a normal conversation without the flame wars just because one may disagree with another...
47

News Item1/1/13 2:54 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Lurker wrote:
Perhaps my comment was confusing so I'll try again.
Rule 1) The bible has no contradictions.
Rule 2) If a contradiction appears.... see Rule 1.
IOW, the bible is inerrant as long as the cover is closed. Contradictions develop when we open the cover and impose our presuppositions on it which is the HS' way of telling us our interpretation is in error.
Well said Ember! Paradoxes are there and so are what I call bookends. I like your thoughts on presuppositions that erroneously guide us. I am just as guilty as the next fellow when that occurs, but most don't even realize that is one of our greatest challenges when studying God's word. Those that recognize the dangers of that are one step ahead, so to speak. Good comment, thanks!

Some of these whippersnappers will figure all that out.

46

News Item1/1/13 2:39 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
momentary loss of reason wrote:
Are you well? This doesn't sound like a happy ending.
Perhaps my comment was confusing so I'll try again. Contradictions abound in our fallible interpretations.... not in the bible.

Rule 1) The bible has no contradictions.

Rule 2) If a contradiction appears.... see Rule 1.

IOW, the bible is inerrant. Yet, contradictions may develop when we open the cover and impose our presuppositions on it which is the HS' way of telling us our interpretation is in error.

45

News Item1/1/13 2:18 PM
Publican | Northern Hemisphere  Find all comments by Publican
I see everyone is still trying to read according to literal, earthly, interpretation. What I would recommend is a reading of 1Corinthians 2;9-16.

The words 'no more' should not be disturbing to anyone; particularly in the light of the qualifier, 'until'. Where would be the mischief to say, 'I will put you in prison that you may be able to do thus and such no more, until you are freed'?
Very good, jpw.
There is no thousand year reign of peace on earth. One of the problems I see everyone having is attached to the idea that whatever happens that we believe is evil, must mean that Satan is not bound. Remember that Jesus coming into the world is a completely ahistorical event. This never would happen as a course of natural events. There was something to accomplish. During that time, in order to that end, Satan is bound to do what God wills, whether the devil will, or no.

The kings of the earth and their armies are now gathering to fight against Christ. The heavenly city (us) is now being compassed about across the earth. We talk about this continually.
The 'fire that comes down from heaven and consumes them', is the return of the Lord, 'in power and great glory' and 'in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God'. Our 'rapture' and the destruction of the wicked

44

News Item1/1/13 11:22 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
momentary loss of reason wrote:
Are you well? This doesn't sound like a happy ending.
I think Lurker left out an important word; surely he refers to seeming paradoxes, not actual contradictions.

Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks, John...ok, the chapter thing sounds fine with me then and really can't be argued. I don't claim to know anything for certain but I had just never heard this other view concerning the Millenium. The comment that you made concerning my prior questions about the denominations, well...starting to make sense. Concerning this topic though, it just seems to me that one has
to work real hard to turn it another way.
You will come across it more and more. In general, the Reformed section of the church believes in a-millennialism, where there is no reign of Christ from Jerusalem for 1000 years. Of course, not all Reformed folks believe that, such as Spurgeon, who held to the millennial reign but rarely preached on it.
43

News Item1/1/13 10:56 AM
momentary loss of reason  Find all comments by momentary loss of reason
Lurker wrote:
The bible doesn't tell us how to interpret it. If we profess the bible to be (doctrinally) inerrant, then our interpretations must never encounter contradictions. Yet, they abound.
Are you well? This doesn't sound like a happy ending.
42

News Item1/1/13 10:55 AM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
for what it's worth, the way I look at it is that......

the nations will not be deceived into unifying as one against God until the end.

a repeat of Babylon. Babylon is a central topic in Revelations of the end time system. Its not just an antiChrist showing up at the scene, but a system that wows the world. They actually rejoice over their own enslavement.

The tower of Babel was another example of the world unifying in defiance to God.

That is why we see the persecution of the saints as a central topic in Revelations.

We see a desire for this as the leaders of the world call for the NWO and use ancient occultic symbolism. we see these images and storylines in things such as the olympic ceremonies, in onstage rituals of the music industry. the alien deception, the holograms (technology) in the skies, the sightings and all....an attempt to bring the world together under a particular "consciousness".

the only ones who reject the system will be those who are written in the Lamb's book of life. That is why the Mark of the Beast is so important. Besides worship, which Satan desires, is a whole part of that, it is also the "weeding" out of the true bride of Christ.

tribulation and perseuction is a message of preparation for saints, wrath for the rest.

41

News Item1/1/13 10:40 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks, John...ok, the chapter thing sounds fine with me then and really can't be argued. I don't claim to know anything for certain but I had just never heard this other view concerning the Millenium. The comment that you made concerning my prior questions about the denominations, well...starting to make sense. Concerning this topic though, it just seems to me that one has
to work real hard to turn it another way.
40

News Item1/1/13 10:20 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Hey, John...I don't think you have given yourself the credit due. I can't scroll to the start of the thread anymore, but I'd say YOU started this around post 4-5 or so.
Christopher, you are quite right. On post 2 I wrote:

"It's almost as if....
Revelation 20:7 KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison..."

It transpires that there is a time when the devil is incarcerated, and I cannot believe that if he is in prison he can accomplish his devilish works.

And although it is true that when one high up in the criminal world is locked up in prison he can yet command his minions in the outside world to do his bidding and wreak havoc, yet I think that the devils without a leader would be as powerless as him, or the incarceration of the devil would be pointless.

As for chronology and the Book of Revelation, it is not so simple as you imagine. Especially as you find the birth of Christ and his persecution right in the middle of the Book which purports to be about the endtimes.

However, if you take the Book literally, there is no other solution but that Christ will reign on the earth for a period of time.

39

News Item1/1/13 10:05 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Publican wrote:
Remember, the binding of Satan in the image is representative.
We all know that the great work of our Lord will not be put off, nay, not even altered. Hence, the Jewish rulers, who did not want to murder Jesus at the Passover, had no power to prevent it. We needed Satan to subject our Lord to His trials to fulfill prophecy. But he could not hinder the accomplishment of our salvation. He was absolutely powerless. In our view, Satan had free reign to move men to crucify the Lord; not knowing that he was bound by God to do His will in the accomplishment of God's design. Had he known that he was doing God's will in order to our salvation, do you think he would have done it? 'Released' immediately after the fulfillment of such, he has been deceiving the nations ever since.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying the reign of Christ as recorded in Revelation 19:1 thru 20:6 began when Jesus was baptized by John Baptist and ended when He was crucified.

Is that correct? If so, can you provide any links which expound this interpretation?

. . .

Chris,

The bible doesn't tell us how to interpret it. If we profess the bible to be (doctrinally) inerrant, then our interpretations must never encounter contradictions. Yet, they abound.

38

News Item1/1/13 9:50 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Darn it...I had a couple more paragraphs that got cut off but I guess that point was made well enough.

Let the fireworks begin...ha-ha.

37

News Item1/1/13 9:46 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hey, John...I don't think you have given yourself the credit due. I can't scroll to the start of the thread anymore, but I'd say YOU started this around post 4-5 or so.
I wish I had something profound to add but I have no choice but to keep things simple and I honestly believe that is how God's word is suppose to be read anyway. Timothy says that we are suppose to study to show ourselves approved, but I don't believe that we are instructed to study because God's word is a complicated mystery that needs to be deciphered and broken down from some complicated, Heavenly code. I think God had His word constructed perfectly so that it could be undertsood by those who's eyes have been opened to see. Even down to the chapters...if God preserved His word in every other way, why would He choose to confuse with misaligned chapters?
I don't know, maybe I'm all wrong here but here's how I see it: If someone has to work so hard to break something down, reshuffle the pieces, and then put it back together in a fashion where most of the pieces fit save for two that have to be forced into place because the ends are not quite round enough, then maybe God meant what He said.
Again, I know nothing but I have to wonder about things when a lot of work has to be done to arrive at any specific int
36

News Item1/1/13 6:44 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike to Publican wrote:
Now if Satan was bound while Jesus walked the Earth, such that the nations would be deceived no more:
What is your definition of "no more"?

The time of the nations being deceived no more has yet to be.

Mike, if I may, I have always thought that "no more" meant "never again" in context. Or in other words, his time of deceiving was finished....

...which would mean that either he is currently not deceiving the nations and never will again, or, as you say, the time for that is yet to be.

35
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