How Christian Colleges Become Bastions of Unbelief
What happened to so many once-Christian colleges in the United States? Two fine books describe the decline. George Marsden's 462-page The Soul of the American University shows how once-Protestant universities became secular look-alikes. James Burtchaell's The Dying of the Light: The Disengagement of Colleges and Universities from Their Christian Churches uses 868 pages to show not only how schools moved from liberal theism to secularism but how, before that, they moved from theologically conservative to liberal stances.
I'll try to give the high points of 1,330 pages in fewer than 1,330 words: Three central messages are (1) Follow the money, (2) Watch the college president, (3) See what the college does with Darwin....
John UK wrote: 1. If you do not believe Satan has victories, 2. an excuse for all the sin in your life. 3. predestination beliefs to an extreme, you'll have no need to read your Bible, pray for God's grace, seek 4. p.s this post counts as part of the "all things", so appreciate it and give God the glory.
John UK 1) No 'great' victories, certainly not one that 'damaged irreparably many genuine believers' 2) Saving faith makes this a tough 'excuse' to make 3) I perform those things because thats what I was created for...if you want to call that a robot..its up to you 4) Amen SteveR(obot)
Deuteronomy 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.
life in hell wrote: When will these bible translation battles be over? They won't exist in Heaven. Perhaps they're a foretaste of hell.
Yes indeed that is right. Hell came to earth when Satan was thrust out of heaven and "fell like lightning" to this planet. His very first act against the human race was to say to a woman, "Yea, hath God said?"
Casting doubt on God's word is devilish, and the source is Satan.
The battle lines are drawn up and you must "choose this day whom ye will serve".
The opposing sides are:
1. Those who claim THE BIBLE is the word of God, inerrant and inspired, trustworthy and complete. These are the "simple believers", the "childlike ones". They are those who take God at his word when he said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." They trust in Christ, AS FOUND in his word. They read about Jesus and love him, turn to him, ask him to forgive them and give them his Spirit.
2. There are the super intellectual ones who love modern scholarship and research. They have no "simple faith" given by God, but a highbrow "faith" given by degree. And they all say, without exception, "You cannot trust the errant Bible! Yea, hath God said?"
John UK wrote: Precisely, brother. And that is why in all my posts I uphold the scriptures as the inerrant and inspired word of the Living God. This is what C.T. Studd believed, and it is what motivated him to teach it.
Brother John I appreciate your post. I think I am beginning to understand better where you are coming from and I can most certainly have respect for your position.
I have to think you already have an appreciation for the position I have as well that Jesus Christ deserves the preeminence in all things. He is the One who is so utterly worthy of everything we have, everything we are, the very best that we might ever hope to give Him AND all of this ONLY by the grace of God and in the fear of God as well
On other threads we have seen how an over emphasis on 'Reformed' Theology for some sadly crowds out the Lord Jesus Christ and the faith and love He is so immeasurably worthy of. May it not be so with the KJV
Anyway at the risk of "loving abuse" by others I have had the experience of hearing God first in the NASB and more recently also in the KJV and NKJV and in a few times when I have listened to a man with are heart after God wonderfully tell of Christ with the ESV as well
SteveR wrote: John UK 1. That sounds like an Arminian talking Romans 8:28 2. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
1. If you do not believe Satan has victories, ask the Lord to show you where in your own life the devil has trounced you.
2. Sure, it is a wonderful text and true. But it is rather presumptuous to use that text as an excuse for all the sin in your life.
3. No, I'm not getting at you, Steve bro. But if you take your predestination beliefs to an extreme, you'll have no need to read your Bible, pray for God's grace, seek to do good, post in forums, etc etc. Just act like a robot or a puppet, and all will be well.
4. p.s this post counts as part of the "all things", so appreciate it and give God the glory.
1. I don't to for the praise of man, I do it believe I get sick and tired of people who say they love and liked KJV and then attack it because it is too "hard" to read, and that it's not from the RCI loving texts from Egypt. 2. All bible perversions had one thing in common it was to make the KJV more "understandable". 3. KJV is from the same text that my brothers and sisters in the Lord in Alps use, and was killed for believing that it was God's pure and pertest word. 4. Yes, I believe a person can get saved with a perversion, but I do not believe that brother or sister can grow with it. 5. In almost every perversion when it comes to where in the KJV it talk about the word, not the Word, his words, they have either a footnote saying that it was not in the texts the "transactors" use(the NU, orlingels, ect.). Look at Luke 4:4 for example.
Michael Hranek wrote: Bro. John, Wales Sadly we experience it here as it does serious disservice to anyone desiring to use the KJV in their churches. Quote (hopefully accurately from memory) If Jesus Christ be God and died for me, than no sacrifice is too great for me to make for Him.
End of Quote - C.T. Studd, one I assume would have used the KJV in his preaching. If we do not have a like faith and love for Jesus Christ as C.T. Studd expressed it really won't make a whole lot of difference will it.
Precisely, brother. And that is why in all my posts I uphold the scriptures as the inerrant and inspired word of the Living God. This is what C.T. Studd believed, and it is what motivated him to teach it.
On the other hand, the Modern Versionists, all of them, deny the Bible in your hand is the inspired and inerrant word of God. And there will be very few who will give their lives for someone who may or may not exist.
The Bible Version debate, begun in 1881 because of those heretics W & H, has damaged irreparably many genuine believers, whose minds have been frazzled by contrary arguments. It is a great victory for Satan.
I cannot blame those who became Quakers or Charismatics, who both get their word directly.
For those unfamiliar, there are TWO families of manuscripts. These are not just TRANSLATIONs they are different VERSIONs.
They are 1) Textus Receptus also known as the Received Text or Byzantine manuscripts which our Reformed fathers fought to preserve in our Bibles, 2)and the Alexandrian manuscripts, primarily Codex Vaticanus (B) and the Codex Sinaiticus (Aleph) manuscripts, to form the basis for the modern versions and Catholic Bible
Of the 5000 known manuscripts, 4950 agree and form the text that my brethren fought & died for during the Reformation. The other 50 dont agree amongst themselves and form the corrupted basis for the catholic and modern versions
How in the Davidic Kingdom does a Christian admonish a young one for using the proper text by suggesting they might be doing it to 'please men' is beyond faith
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Here we know little or nothing about KJV-Onlyism and its cultish militant stance regarding versions.
Bro. John, Wales
Sadly we experience it here as it does serious disservice to anyone desiring to use the KJV in their churches.
Quote (hopefully accurately from memory) If Jesus Christ be God and died for me, than no sacrifice is too great for me to make for Him.
End of Quote - C.T. Studd, one I assume would have used the KJV in his preaching.
If we do not have a like faith and love for Jesus Christ as C.T. Studd expressed it really won't make a whole lot of difference will it.
The Pharisees of Jesus' day had the Scripture in Hebrew, Aramaic and the Greek Septuigent (sp?) and it didn't do them the wonderful good it could have, if they had listened and believed what God Himself told them.
Likewise having a KJV or any other translation won't do one much good if they cannot come to know and love the One Scripture is so much all about and in the grace of God make Him known to the lost who so need to be made right with God.
Now as to the KJV I have confidence to tell those who use it that if they listen they will hear God and He will make real the faith that saves and pleases Him.
Michael Hranek wrote: May I remind all of us, myself included, it is the fear of the LORD that is the beginning of knowledge, the beginning of wisdom, NOT merely owning the KJV as good a translation as it is, and sadly far too many KJV Onlyists show little knowledge let alone love for the Only True and Living God, and the Only Savior the Lord Jesus Christ and the very wonderful experiencial faith of Almighty God and His Mercy they could have if they actually studied and treasured the Truth God Himself would make wonderfully real to them of Jesus Christ through their translation of choice.
Bro Michael, you know I always appreciate your posts, and I cannot gainsay this particular one. However....
Here we know little or nothing about KJV-Onlyism and its cultish militant stance regarding versions. But we do have a good heritage of churches who have been blessed through the KJV, and it is a great shame when true Christian believers who have been brought up to believe the BIBLE is the WORD OF GOD, inspired and inerrant and trustworthy, come UNDER ATTACK by Modern Versionists and Liberals and Humanists and Pseudo-Christians, who would tell them that the BIBLE IN YOUR HAND is NOT the inspired and inerrant word of GOD.
KJV English speaking-Onlyist wrote: Michael said, through their translation of choice That to me sounds to much liked Billy Graham saying go to the church of your choice.
KJV English speaking-Onlyist
I am assuming you are young? And have much to learn regarding the Truth of Christ and one's own conscience before Him.
The choice I was speaking about in your case was the KJV. If that is the translation you choose for whatever reason use it. Now if you are doing it to please God, Wonderful! learn of Christ, grow in your faith in Him, make Him wonderfully known to the lost who so need to come to repentance and faith in Him, BUT if you are using it to please men you've got a problem, a big one, one like the Pharisees of Jesus' day had as well.
You might hate this but God is not limited to using the KJV in the salvation of men. If you believe He is than you've crossed over into your own kind of unbelief and might find yourself guilty of rejecting genuine born again brohters and sisters in Christ such as John spoke of Diotrephes doing (3 John 9,10)
btw I've seen TN Temple graduates (ab)using the KJV in manipulating people to say an empty sinner's prayer resulting horrible false conversions
John UK wrote: Yes it's funny how the KJV comes in for so much stick, isn't it?
John UK KJV English speaking-Onlyist SteveR
May I remind all of us, myself included, it is the fear of the LORD that is the beginning of knowledge, the beginning of wisdom, NOT merely owning the KJV as good a translation as it is, and sadly far too many KJV Onlyists show little knowledge let alone love for the Only True and Living God, and the Only Savior the Lord Jesus Christ and the very wonderful experiencial faith of Almighty God and His Mercy they could have if they actually studied and treasured the Truth God Himself would make wonderfully real to them of Jesus Christ through their translation of choice.
Unbelief IMHO has far more to do with disrespect/disregard of the Holy Righteous Character of Jehovah than what translation one chooses to use.
After all our Salvation is a Person, The Lord Jesus Christ, and if the apostle Paul could write by the Holy Spirit how he saw through a glass darkly we might all do well to seek Him with all our heart, even as the word of God tells us to do _ Yes, even in all sorts of translations the KJV included.
Michael Hranek wrote: Preach Christ, preach the the TRUTH of the Lord Jesus Christ, tell of all of who He is, tell them of all that God Himself says of Him in Scripture, tell them of the unimaginably wonderful work He,
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus IS the Word of God, how can you accept a counterfeit so casually? The two families of manuscripts are not reconcilable
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Michael Said, and the translation you use shouldn't matter for those God builds up in their faith and especially to those He saves.
Do you every think that it don't matter what version they use after they are saved? And what is the name of the church of these "dictators"?
And for the Lying Ade(no offense intended Abraham Lincoln) If 2 Peter 2:16 is *********, then so Mark 15:38. That's how dumb your attack is. Just because the world misuses the meaning and times saying it, does not make the KJV ********, next attack please.
Michael Hranek wrote: Dear Brother John, UK Wales Seem like the KJV vs all other translations 'discussion' is continuing.
Yes it's funny how the KJV comes in for so much stick, isn't it? No-one seems to attack the Geneva Bible.
But my dear brother, I was seeking to give a conclusion as to why the Christian colleges have become bastions of unbelief. Now what is unbelief, but not taking God at his word.
But, sadly, the Modern Versions, being produced by men who do not believe God has preserved his word intact, are themselves instrumental in bringing forth unbelief. Eh? Yes, unbelief.
This is how apostasy comes about.
How many professing Christians will NOT believe in the existence of hell in fifty years time? I estimate about 95% or even more. Why is that? Well if the word hell is taken out of all the Bibles, what do you expect?
Last week, the secretary of a local Baptist church told me that 70% of evangelicals no longer believe in a 6 day creation. He was putting that forward as an argument to convince me to convert to the majority thinking. Westcott & Hort also disbelieved the 6 day creation.
The Baptist church uses the NIV.
I asked him about W & H, and he said he'd never heard of them.
John UK wrote: Do you know of any Bibles which do not use the masoretic texts to translate the Old Testament?
Dear Brother John, UK Wales
Seem like the KJV vs all other translations 'discussion' is continuing.
I recently spoke with a pastor on the matter of translations as churches in the area I live in use many, mostly NIV, a few NASB, and at least one church who led his congregation to use the ESV avoiding the KJV because the unkind and severe behavior associated with KJV, let's call them, dictators in this area.
Here is what the pastor told me, in my words. 'Whatever translation you use, Preach Christ, preach the the TRUTH of the Lord Jesus Christ, tell of all of who He is, tell them of all that God Himself says of Him in Scripture, tell them of the unimaginably wonderful work He, by Himself alone, has done on the Cross, tell of His shed blood and what it avails, what He has done in the Resurrection, call men to repentance from all their sins against Him, call them to faith, to come to Him, to know Him, to love Him, to follow Him and the translation you use shouldn't matter for those God builds up in their faith and especially to those He saves.