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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/31/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 23, 2014  |  247 comments  |  1 commentary
Patheos: Calvinism = Wahhabism?

.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.

Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!

Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islam’s violent and extreme movements. ...


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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 247 user comment(s)
News Item7/27/14 9:54 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Lurker wrote:
Since you obviously rejected my explanation of this text
Oh Dear Poor Pitiful Lurker
You worked hard to loose my respect for your scholarship, but you did, even going so far as to malign those who take the Bible literally

So politely "no"

187

News Item7/27/14 9:53 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
MS wrote:
Antisemitism....is prejudice, hatred of or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racal group.
Prove by Lurkers comments that he is antisemetic
Ball is in your court!
I agree, MS, to call someone anti-Semite because they see Jewish people as "not particular" which is open admission that they are NOT making distinctions but see them as equal human beings compared to others. At this point, just more empty name calling.
186

News Item7/27/14 9:47 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John for JESUS wrote:
To some who think I'm being nasty by saying Lurker holds some anti-Jewish sentiment, I am not.
I wasn't bothered by you comment... I'm used to being falsely accused of hating Jews. I don't hate them nor do I deny their right to defend themselves. I just don't see them as God's chosen people as some assert.

But more importantly, the believing Jews were not saved at the time of Acts 15:11 for two reasons;

1) The KJV is one of a very few translations which brought out the proper meaning of the text and the rest got it entirely wrong.

2) When broken off the olive tree, a figure of the Zion covenant of grace, the Jews were confined in the Sinai covenant which is the Law of Moses and the wrath of God. They were referred to as the circumcision for a reason.... they were bound to keep the law as long as they lived not being party to the covenant of grace. This is what Peter was speaking of in Acts 15:11... He and the rest of the circumcised believers looked forward in hope of salvation from the wrath of the Law of Moses, to be grafted back into the olive tree, on the last day if they were faithful to keep God's commandments (love God and neighbor).

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

185

News Item7/27/14 9:42 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
Hey John, how are you getting on with loving God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind? How are you getting on loving your neighbour as yourself? I somehow thought that "all have sinned and come short".
Or do you work to a pass mark?
I'm doing perfectly in Christ. In my flesh I struggle. The only mark to pass for salvation is faith. I think your problem is that you think faith obviously merits salvation, therefore it has to be God who gives us faith. Otherwise, people would merit their own salvation, in your mind. Is that how you see it? Otherwise, why suggest if someone believes faith precedes regeneration that they think they earned their salvation by works? Scripture says faith is not a work and if faith were imputed by God, then faith is still something people must perform and therefore would still merit their salvation with God's assistance, in your view. I mean, if faith comes from God or not, it is still people who must believe. Therefore you should believe anyone who has faith has merited their salvation regardless of the source.
184

News Item7/27/14 9:29 PM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
Amen to that MS! Let's see if our friend J4J can actually prov what he says, rather than just beeing a sack of hot air!
183

News Item7/27/14 9:11 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Racal should have been racial.
182

News Item7/27/14 9:07 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
John for JESUS wrote:
Lurker...
Acts 15:11 NASB
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
The Jewish men were saying they were saved in the same manner as the Gentiles. Not sure why you would say the Jews weren't saved, but I can only assume it has something to do with your antisemitism or anti-Jewish sentiment.
Antisemitism....is prejudice, hatred of or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racal group.
Prove by Lurkers comments that he is antisemetic
Ball is in your court!
181

News Item7/27/14 8:49 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
To some who think I'm being nasty by saying Lurker holds some anti-Jewish sentiment, I am not. I am trying to be accurate so as to understand his position that the Jewish believers were not saved but that the Gentiles were. He has said himself that he doesn't think there is anything particularly special about and doesn't particularly like the current state of Israel.
180

News Item7/27/14 7:52 PM
pennnned  Find all comments by pennnned
Mark 12:28-34 NASB
Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear , O Israel! T he Lord our God is one Lord ; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that He is One , and there is no one else besides Him ; and to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as himself, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."

exactly.

they would have entered the Kingdom of God if they loved God and neighbor, not when in the future they entered the temple. Jesus was inaugurating a Kingdom had by spiritual redemption. and they "weren't far" because God was giving them understanding.... but to be in this Kingdom they would need to be regenerated, because God's law has to be written on a man's heart, he must be born again. And this has always been the work of God.

179

News Item7/27/14 7:25 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Michael Hranek wrote:
Ardent (what a moniker, got any others?)
Lurker, this is for you as well
Real scholarly response, Michael. God must be so pleased with you.

Now, this is for you.

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Since you obviously rejected my explanation of this text, tell us everything there is to know about it. Why was Paul and his fellow believers not saved the instant they believed? They weren't saved yet so were they still unregenerate, dead in trespass and sin? When were they saved? What were they saved from?

Was Paul, born out of due time, the very first recipient of God's promise.....

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

178

News Item7/27/14 6:40 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
Mark 12:28-34 NASB
One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear , O Israel! T he Lord our God is one Lord ; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that He is One , and there is no one else besides Him ; and to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as himself, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Jesus spoke tripe?
Hey John, how are you getting on with loving God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind? How are you getting on loving your neighbour as yourself? I somehow thought that "all have sinned and come short".

Or do you work to a pass mark?

177

News Item7/27/14 6:37 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Calvinism, Arminianism , any ism you want to insert........
False dreams and vain comforts.
Flee to Jesus Christ a sinners ONLY HOPE.
176

News Item7/27/14 6:24 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
What utter tripe, John!
So if someone asks you, "What must I do to be saved?" you answer, "Believe in Jesus Christ." And if they want to know what believing in Jesus Christ means, you say, "It means to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind."
Ahem......salvation by works, without a doubt.
Mark 12:28-34 NASB
One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear , O Israel! T he Lord our God is one Lord ; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that He is One , and there is no one else besides Him ; and to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as himself, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Jesus spoke tripe?
175

News Item7/27/14 6:12 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ardent wrote:
How does one HEAR the Word of God and the truth of Scripture?
By faith.
Not by human ability or senses or faculties. No.
Moniker Man, you continually appeal to our human ability, senses and faculties. Why do you do it?
174

News Item7/27/14 6:00 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Ardent wrote:
But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
Ardent (what a moniker, got any others?)
Lurker, this is for you as well

Wow! I am amazed how your fierce devotion to the teachings of John Calvin and his self appointed Reformed prostyletes far exceeds the Calvinism/Reformed theology of C.H. Spurgeon and George Whitefield, along with imperfect notables like Ian Paisley in the better days of the Free Presbyterian Church

You all are just way too smart for a simple minded Baptist-type believer like me who doesn't know much more than

'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved', as if that is something a wretched lost hell bound sinner could actually do and be saved, born again of the Holy Spirit, regenerated, saved by God from his or her sins and saved for God, like God wants to save sinners, how stupid could I be to dare think anything so wonderful and undeserved as that

I bet your families are so impressed with you, they must fall all over themselves begging you to tell them how they must be saved. Oops! I am so sorry I should have said, "Be A Calvinsit like you"

173

News Item7/27/14 5:47 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
JayJay......that's the way these war zones that pass as 'Christian chat rooms' are.
If they can't make their point and if you dare to challenge them with scripture, out come the quotes from their confessions, then the anathemas are pronounced on you and then you are told that the devil is your daddy.....
Just a heads up for ya!
The Lord bless you.
172

News Item7/27/14 5:19 PM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
John for JESUS from Atl writes:

Lurker...

Acts 15:11 NASB

But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

The Jewish men were saying they were saved in the same manner as the Gentiles. Not sure why you would say the Jews weren't saved, but I can only assume it has something to do with your antisemitism or anti-Jewish sentiment.

What a nasty thing to say to someone just because you disagree with them J4J! And, not only did you call him an anti-semite, but you also constructed a complete strawman!

171

News Item7/27/14 3:57 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
John for JESUS wrote:
Lurker...
Acts 15:11 NASB
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
The Jewish men were saying they were saved in the same manner as the Gentiles. Not sure why you would say the Jews weren't saved, but I can only assume it has something to do with your antisemitism or anti-Jewish sentiment.
John for Jesus, do you understand that anyone who is not forgiven in Christ will be punished by God, and that they will be rejected from heaven?
170

News Item7/27/14 3:48 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
I can't agree with that, John.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This verse gives the proper meaning of the state of being saved.... "from wrath".
That's okay bro.

But remember that if the wrath of God comes out from his mighty outstretched hand, then all who are in Christ are safe (saved) because they are in that hand, and cannot come in for wrath.

169

News Item7/27/14 2:48 PM
Ardent  Find all comments by Ardent
Michael Hranek wrote:
And you should have stopped right there
Lurker is wrong, and abusing other verses doesn't nullify Romans 10
MH
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith comes by "HEARING"

The question raised in these two verses is about HEARING. The ability of the sinner to receive the Word of God.

Thus "Who can hear?"

Paul in v16 points out that Isaiah complained "who hath believed our report" - Now clearly the Jews who heard Isaiah's preaching were not deaf. But even though the sounds of his voice and the meaning of the words were carried to the congregation - Still they did not obey nor receive the Word of God.

How does one HEAR the Word of God and the truth of Scripture?

By faith.

Not by human ability or senses or faculties. No.

Faith then is the gift of God.
No faith leaves the sinner reprobate.

Only the hearing of faith - the hearing of the saved - the hearing of the regenerate - the hearing of the elect of God can save.

168
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