John MacArthur vs. Mark Driscoll: Megachurch pastors clash over charismatic theology
Megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll claims that his books were confiscated at the Strange Fire conference put on by another megachurch pastor John MacArthur.
Driscoll, who pastors Mars Hill Church in Seattle, is a reformed pastor who is more open to charismatic theology. MacArthur, who pastors Grace Community Church in southern California and has been named in the top 10 most influential pastors in a survey by LifeWay Research, has long criticized the charismatic movement, calling it âa farce and a scam.â...
John uk Explain Romans 10:9 then. For if we confess with our mouth The Lord jesus,and believeth in our heart that god raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved. Please tell me you not calling the apostle Paul and the Holy Spirit a liar.
Jc wrote: Let me give it in simple term. The gospel is the good news of how(you and I) are saved from hell by gods grace. Jesus Christ who is Gods son died on the cross for our sins. He was buried and rose again to give eternal life as a free gift. You got eternal life by simply trusting and putting all your faith in the finished work of Christ.Faith alone. John 6:47 verily, verily I say onto you whoever beliveth on me hath everlasting life. Got it.
I believe you are close but most incorrect in your evaluation of how salvation comes to a sinner. With you, it is all mental assent of certain doctrines, by which you can claim your salvation. This is known as easy-believism, and many folks (a great multitude) have been hoodwinked by it. I'm not saying this is true in every case, but a close look at scripture and the evidences of true conversion would expose the error.
Easy-believism and the doctrine of justification by faith alone in Christ alone are poles apart though deceptively similar. The former does not change the life by God's power but by legalism (with adamic nature intact). The latter works entirely by God's grace, both justification and sanctification, right through to glorification.
I see your point and I agree. To me it's another sign of Christ's return. The Bible talks about a falling away from truth..having itching ears.seeking teachers that will tickle itching ears. John in 1 John tells us that we will no longer practice" sin and if we do we belong to the father of lies..he also said that Jesus said,"If you love me,you will keep my commandments".We are given power to overcome Satan's evil schemes to fight temptation. We do still sin but we no longer "practice sin" like my sister did. If we do sin we are quickened by our conscience..we are sorry we grieved the Holy Spirit of so we, like David repent of that sin and ask His forgiveness so fellowship can be restored. If we don't take these steps then after a time our conscience will become seared and we no longer feel guilt can sin all day long everyday and that is a very dangerous place to be!
I would ask you all to pray for those that I care about, who are falling for all the psychoanalysis self actualization stuff and leaving their first love Jesus Christ, and these are not from liberal denominations, but creeping very quickly into those who call themselves bible teachers. They think they can mix the two together to solve the problems of life, instead of, as others are discussing here, wait humbly before the Lord, pray, and lay down their lives to be lifted up by Him. And it keeps them quite busy, they always think they are onto something, if they just uncover another rock. Those of us who have walked through life, understand that there is no end to "enlightenment" other than losing the disciplined life in Christ. Anyone else see this?
(this is one of the reasons the cessationism concerns me, they are literally replacing prophetic teaching with a new office, as the psychoanalyst becomes their priest, in a way, its a replacing or dismantling of the body of Christ)
Boy, JC...I so wish you were right because if it was simply a matter of believing, and living however, then I wouldn't need to be so concerned about my family. Just yesterday, my mom was talking about how she went to confession, wants to talk to a priest about seeing her ceiling disappear and watching beautiful, multi colored clouds waft by which she thought was Heaven. She saw this twice, while laying in bed and wide awake, according to her. I don't know what to think. My mom isn't a bad person by worldly standards, but she has lived a life of blatant, unrepentant sin while being Roman Catholic and claiming to love the Lord, which she said again just yesterday. With the exception of one brother, my family members belive in the God of the Bible, and the Christ of the Bible, but is that enough when they live their lives no differently that the average athiest, or whoever; living in sin with so sense of remorse, or desire for change?
You can believe in Jesus all day long, but if you don't realize that you've sinned before a Holy God, and that you deserve hell, that your sin is the reason Christ was nailed to the Cross, and don't repent your belief is all in vain.
No JC, the Bible is clear that repentance is necessary for salvation. Demons not only believe that Jesus is only way to heaven, but know and tremble. Luke 24:46-47 "And said into them, thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us Ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance towards God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."
Why would Jesus in Luke 24 tell the disciples to preach repentance if its not necessary? In 2 Peter why does God want all men to repent so they don't perish, if repentance isn't necessary for salvation? And why does Paul in acts 20 have repentance and then faith for salvation?
I only listed a couple of verses on repentance there are many more.
Let me sum this up for everybody as far as salvation goes. The bible is clear about how to be saved. Simply " Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Not repent of all your sins, or live a certain way then believe. The bible is crystal clear. Believe that Jesus is the Christ. The way we live is called fellowship. Just because someone doesn't live a certain way or " do the works" doesn't mean they're not saved. Yes we should live for jesus by living right but if someone still struggling with a piticular sin in there life doesn't make them not saved. Because if we are to be honest we all still sin daily.
penny wrote: Brother CV, I find the measurement of handing out a book in the parking lot against condoning as God's will the trading out of our rep for "safety" and watching the diaspora of millions, that is millions from Iraq onward to be immeasurably different.
Driscol is a shock jock not a pastor. He built his church that way. nuff said.
America was built upon Christian foudation by people who feared God. US, with it's constitution and it's bill of rights is the best thing on this side of heaven, and has stood as a beacon of hope and freedom. But Satan was bussy too at the laying of the foundation through Jim's masons. Today, the rapid erosion of freedom and privacy, mostly through contrived fear, is scary.
American wars are now mostly for special interests. Darby/Schofield christianity is no help because they have little regard for an Iraqy Christian as they dive headlong to arrange Jeruslem to be the worlds capital.
The plight of most of the world will get no help from these duo's
Frank wrote: Hey Pilgrim. I appreciate all your comments on this issue. Of course you are correct. Jesus is either Lord and Master over someone or He is not Savior! He can't be divided. Repentance is a necessary part of salvation. Can anyone imagine our Lord saying; I saved you from your sins, but it is okay if you still want to live in them. Paul would say; "God forbid". Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Thank you Brother Pilgrim, the evidence sure stacks up.
Here is a text where Christ is received as Lord, and the fruit is ALL in him. That is why grace people never ever ever boast of their works, as the RCC and other worksists do.
Colossians 2:6-7 KJV 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Btw I better add that this was done privately just family and elders. Not in the congergation. They just anointed her head with oil and all prayed not just one..I'm leary of someone who says they have the gift of healing..maybe because so many false prophets that use this type thing for money..not for God's glory.
I believe God heals through all means.medicine, doctors, surgery and at times through laying on of hands..this was done at our church afew years by our Baptist Pastor..this young woman had Hodgins and gone through all the chemo was actually dying..after prayer she began to slowly get better and better and now her hair has grown out and she's fine There are special times that God heals instantly and other slowly but either way it is in His Hands.
John UK wrote: it is insufficient to merely call Jesus Lord, he must be Lord of the life - or NO SALVATION. The people Jesus is rebuking in these texts were "workers of iniquity". That is, they had never repented of sin, they had never turned from sin, they had never bent the knee to King Jesus, they were still living in rebellion while outwardly religious, even calling Jesus Lord. But their hearts were never changed, the grace of God never touched them, they were not saved.
Hey Pilgrim. I appreciate all your comments on this issue. Of course you are correct. Jesus is either Lord and Master over someone or He is not Savior! He can't be divided. Repentance is a necessary part of salvation. Can anyone imagine our Lord saying; I saved you from your sins, but it is okay if you still want to live in them. Paul would say; "God forbid".
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
B.h.k wrote: Cute but this verse pertains to those like yourself, Mathew 7:21-23. Kjv. If this is your doctrine on being saved then your no different than the scribes and Pharisees that Jesus rebuked. Have a good day friend
Well well, these verses were the very verses I was going to post next, to prove Lordship salvation, and to show that it is insufficient to merely call Jesus Lord, he must be Lord of the life - or NO SALVATION.
Matthew 7:21-23 KJV 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The people Jesus is rebuking in these texts were "workers of iniquity". That is, they had never repented of sin, they had never turned from sin, they had never bent the knee to King Jesus, they were still living in rebellion while outwardly religious, even calling Jesus Lord. But their hearts were never changed, the grace of God never touched them, they were not saved.