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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/21/2014
MONDAY, AUG 26, 2013  |  126 comments
Feds drop demand for baptism permits

The waters became troubled when members of Gladden Baptist Church in Salem, Mo., were unable to access a section of Sinking Creek where they had been baptizing converts for nearly 50 years. In that time, members of the congregation would accompany the pastor and baptismal candidates to the water’s edge to participate in the service. The elderly and mobility-impaired were taken to the sandbar site in vans.

This all changed when the Park Service placed large boulders blocking the sandbar to vehicle traffic, including wheelchairs.

Faye Walmsley, ONSR’s public-information officer, told the Salem Times a special-use permit has been a requirement for all First Amendment activities – public demonstrations, press events, religious services – for the past 25 years, but “we have just never actively used the authority until 2006.” ...


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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 126 user comment(s)
News Item8/29/13 5:13 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John 1:32-33 KJV
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

and...

1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Now John, which one of these baptisms continued after pentecost, and which one became obsolete, as you reckoned earlier?

66

News Item8/29/13 5:07 PM
Y'wot  Find all comments by Y'wot
shedding a little light wrote:
Help for the poor Baptists....
Sacrament:-
"Ecclesiastical . a visible sign of an inward grace, especially one of the solemn Christian rites considered to have been instituted by Jesus Christ to symbolize or confer grace: the sacraments of the Protestant churches are baptism and the Lord's Supper;"
No wonder they have difficulties understanding the Old Testament.
"WCF 28/1 Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,a not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church,b but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,c of his ingrafting into Christ,d of regeneration,e of remission of sins,f and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life:g which sacrament is, by Christ’s own appointment, to be continued in his Church until the end of the world.h"
a. Mat 28:19. • b. 1 Cor 12:13. • c. Rom 4:11 with Col 2:11-12. • d. Rom 6:5; Gal 3:27. • e. Titus 3:5. • f. Mark 1:4. • g. Rom 6:3-4. • h. Mat 28:19-20.
More tripe from a tripe pedlar.
65

News Item8/29/13 4:10 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John for JESUS wrote:
1) I already mentioned Acts 19:6 where Paul laid his hands on believers and the Holy Spirit came on them. In Acts 8:14-17, Peter and John lay hands on believing Samaritans and those people received the Holy Spirit. Of course it was God doing the baptism using Peter and John as the instruments by which to do it. Same thing when people were healed by the laying on of hands.
2) John 4:2 goes on to say,"(Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,)".
3) Good thing I believe in sola scriptura!
4) Because Jesus was baptized with John's Baptism which is obsolete.
5) Ignorance
6) Why not?
sigh, even if I agreed with your point about Paul and Peter (I don't) they have been residents of heaven for nearly 2000 years. The command is to GO YE (in your case meaning J4J) do YOU have the power to baptize people with the Holy Spirit? I know I don't, I don't know ANYBODY who who current does (except for the Charismatics who claim to have the gift) You can't reword the command, it was preach, baptize, and teach until the end of the age. So, if the only baptism is Spirit baptism, then those who are expected to obey must have that power. Are you saying that is what is meant?
64

News Item8/29/13 3:40 PM
shedding a little light  Find all comments by shedding a little light
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Baptism is an ordinance not a sacrament
Help for the poor Baptists....

Sacrament:-
"Ecclesiastical . a visible sign of an inward grace, especially one of the solemn Christian rites considered to have been instituted by Jesus Christ to symbolize or confer grace: the sacraments of the Protestant churches are baptism and the Lord's Supper;"

No wonder they have difficulties understanding the Old Testament.

"WCF 28/1 Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,a not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church,b but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,c of his ingrafting into Christ,d of regeneration,e of remission of sins,f and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life:g which sacrament is, by Christ’s own appointment, to be continued in his Church until the end of the world.h"

a. Mat 28:19. • b. 1 Cor 12:13. • c. Rom 4:11 with Col 2:11-12. • d. Rom 6:5; Gal 3:27. • e. Titus 3:5. • f. Mark 1:4. • g. Rom 6:3-4. • h. Mat 28:19-20.

63

News Item8/29/13 1:38 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
GO YE..and baptize... 1) You still have said how you think that we have power to baptize someone in the Spirit. 2) Read John 4:1 for answer to your last question in point 1. 3) You have also the historical record that believers were baptized (immersed in water) from the times of the apostles, so they apparently would not adhere to your view.
4) Why, pray tell, are you against believers following the Lord in water baptism? 5) Why do you think that countless Christians have been mistaken for nearly 2000 years? 6)Why are you in a church that is so diametrically opposite of your own view, if I may inquire?
1) I already mentioned Acts 19:6 where Paul laid his hands on believers and the Holy Spirit came on them. In Acts 8:14-17, Peter and John lay hands on believing Samaritans and those people received the Holy Spirit. Of course it was God doing the baptism using Peter and John as the instruments by which to do it. Same thing when people were healed by the laying on of hands.
2) John 4:2 goes on to say,"(Though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples,)".
3) Good thing I believe in sola scriptura!
4) Because Jesus was baptized with John's Baptism which is obsolete.
5) Ignorance
6) Why not?
62

News Item8/29/13 1:05 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
1. Yep, like you did earlier with Romans 6. As far as my ignorance, I still have things to learn and fully understand. However, the word "one" is not one of them. The baptisms you are referring to in Hebrews 6 (written to the Hebrews) is referring to more then one Jewish baptism, but we are talking about the one Christian baptism.
2. All other baptisms are unnecessary, there is only one which now saves us (1 Peter 3:21). Do you really think water saves? If so, everyone is saved.
1. Yep, I am a learner not a teacher. I wonder what you are, John?

The baptisms referred to in Hebrews 6 come among a selection of new covenant doctrines. Amazing how Paul, speaking to Christians, suddenly brings in some old covenant baptisms, eh?

2. No, water never saved anyone. But I've been to plenty of charismatic and pentecostal churches to know that what passes for Spirit baptism in these circles is none of the sort, but a grand deception. "Toronto Blessing" and other deceptions like "The Holy Ghost Weekend" arranged by the Alpha Course, are designs of Satan to fill the churches with tares.

Be not deceived.

61

News Item8/29/13 1:03 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hi US,

I'm not sure what I even said. I believe in water baptism by immersion. I can't scroll down far enough using the mobile app to read whatever I said. I must not have come across like I intended. I think the last thing I posted was about my own baptism experience. When I said I was mortified, I just meant that since I am very low profile, I was uncomfortable being on a stage under flood lights as hundreds watched on. Maybe that's how it's supoose to be done. Other than that, it was a great thing, of course.

60

News Item8/29/13 12:54 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1. John, you are now showing your ignorance of scripture. That's okay, we all need time to learn.
Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
"Doctrine of baptisms". Hmmmmm, sure seems like more than one.
Sure, one baptism is meant in Ephesians 4:5, water baptism. All others are different, of course.
2. Not what since Pentecost? Was that, whatever it is, a one-off?
1. Yep, like you did earlier with Romans 6. As far as my ignorance, I still have things to learn and fully understand. However, the word "one" is not one of them. The baptisms you are referring to in Hebrews 6 (written to the Hebrews) is referring to more then one Jewish baptism, but we are talking about the one Christian baptism.
2. All other baptisms are unnecessary, there is only one which now saves us (1 Peter 3:21). Do you really think water saves? If so, everyone is saved.

UNPROFITABLE...
If that is the case then so is the Lord's Supper. Jesus ordered that we do it. TO BE CONT...

59

News Item8/29/13 12:50 PM
Y'wot  Find all comments by Y'wot
Didactic wrote:
"Is Infant Baptism Protestant?
In short, yes. All the Protestant Reformers including Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli and John Calvin held to infant baptism. Though these three great Protestants disagreed on many things, they all agreed on the Protestant doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. They also agreed that infant baptism is a biblical practice and the best expression of the Protestant gospel. In fact, infant baptism has been the practice of the historic Christian church since the Apostolic period" (R.S.Clark)
Baptism as a Sign and Seal of Covenant of Grace
Life in God's Covenant Beginning with Baptism
The Covenant of Baptism
Bit of a give away when an allegedly biblical tenet has to be supported by outright lies.
58

News Item8/29/13 12:36 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
1) Do you also believe there is more than one church body, one Spirit, one hope of our calling, one Lord, one faith, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you? I won't take such liberty with scripture. One: being a single unit or thing.
2) No, not since the day of Pentecost.
1. John, you are now showing your ignorance of scripture. That's okay, we all need time to learn.

Hebrews 6:1-2 KJV
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

"Doctrine of baptisms". Hmmmmm, sure seems like more than one.

Sure, one baptism is meant in Ephesians 4:5, water baptism. All others are different, of course.

2. Not what since Pentecost? Was that, whatever it is, a one-off?

57

News Item8/29/13 12:27 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1) As Gill notes on this verse, there is more than one baptism mentioned in scripture. I see where you are, but I think you're wrong.
"One baptism, there were divers baptisms under the law, but there is but one baptism under the Gospel; for John's and Christ's are the same: there are, besides, figurative or metaphorical ones, which are so in an improper sense, as the baptism of the Spirit, and the baptism of blood, or of sufferings; but there is but one baptism, literally and properly so called, which is water baptism; and which is to be administered in one and the same way, by immersion in water; and on one and the same subjects, believers in Christ; and in one and the same name, the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; and to be performed but once, when rightly administered."
2) Also, there are different baptisms: Christ baptises with the Spirit - yes? The Spirit baptises into Christ - yes?
1) Do you also believe there is more than one church body, one Spirit, one hope of our calling, one Lord, one faith, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you? I won't take such liberty with scripture. One: being a single unit or thing.
2) No, not since the day of Pentecost.
56

News Item8/29/13 12:08 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
For Chris,
Since the New Testament era, the Catholic Church has always understood baptism differently, teaching that it is a sacrament which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sin, both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older persons.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

For J4J

Baptism is an ordinance not a sacrament. It is a step of obedience (which is why it is not Spirit baptism referred to in Matthew 28 and Mark 16)

Remember the command is GO YE..and baptize... You still have said how you think that we have power to baptize someone in the Spirit. Read John 4:1 for answer to your last question in point 1. You have also the historical record that believers were baptized (immersed in water) from the times of the apostles, so they apparently would not adhere to your view.

Why, pray tell, are you against believers following the Lord in water baptism? Why do you think that countless Christians have been mistaken for nearly 2000 years? Why are you in a church that is so diametrically opposite of your own view, if I may inquire?

55

News Item8/29/13 11:57 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
For there is only one baptism (Eph 4:5).
As Gill notes on this verse, there is more than one baptism mentioned in scripture. I see where you are, but I think you're wrong.

"One baptism, there were divers baptisms under the law, but there is but one baptism under the Gospel; for John's and Christ's are the same: there are, besides, figurative or metaphorical ones, which are so in an improper sense, as the baptism of the Spirit, and the baptism of blood, or of sufferings; but there is but one baptism, literally and properly so called, which is water baptism; and which is to be administered in one and the same way, by immersion in water; and on one and the same subjects, believers in Christ; and in one and the same name, the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; and to be performed but once, when rightly administered."

Also, there are different baptisms: Christ baptises with the Spirit - yes? The Spirit baptises into Christ - yes?

So a sinner could be quickened by the Spirit, coming to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repenting. The Spirit could baptise him into Christ. The Baptist church could baptise him then in water. Then he could be baptised with suffering.

54

News Item8/29/13 11:32 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK wrote:
1. Nope.
2. One thing is very clear, and that is that the Ethiopian had come to regard baptism in water as very important.
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
3. Thank you, yes it makes perfect sense.
1) It's possible verse v6 is a reiteration of v5. However, even if it is not, you would have to choose which baptism was right? For there is only one baptism (Eph 4:5). Peter recalled in Acts 11:16 that John indeed baptized with water, but we are baptized in the Holy Spirit. There are only two baptisms spoken of there. Why? Because only two were commanded by God and now John's Baptism has been done away with. WWJD? Had Jesus ever baptized anyone in water?
2) That is about all that is certain. You are only guessing at everything else you said about the Ethiopian. He seemed to be Jewish to me because Gentiles weren't baptized in the Spirit (and thus saved) until Acts 11. If baptism is a sacrament, then why is the Lord's Supper not included in Matt 28:19? Hmm.
3) You are welcome.
53

News Item8/29/13 7:14 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
John Y Wrote:
"I still accept Infant Baptism but I don't believe that Infant Baptism imparts salvation. I believe that Infant Baptism is just a dedication of infants to Jesus."

Me too and I never saw anything wrong with it as long as nothing more was thought of it. Like, just a little ceremony dedicating a child to Christ. Unfortunately though, that's not the way it's seen, and not the purpose.
Correct me if I am wrong, but a Roman Catholic Christening enters the baby into the Roman system; ensuring their salvation (?)

52

News Item8/29/13 4:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
John for JESUS wrote:
JOHN UK...
1. Acts 19:6 could just be a reiteration of what happened in verse 5.
2. Water baptism was important to the Ethiopian however I don't know why and can only speculate because the Bible doesn't tell us why.
3. Yes, that's what I believe Rms 6 is saying.
1. Nope.
2. One thing is very clear, and that is that the Ethiopian had come to regard baptism in water as very important. Somewhere down the line he had heard preaching that one repents, believes, and is baptised in water. This preaching would have emanated from the everlasting gospel, brought in by Jesus Christ, and commissioned to be taught until the end of the world. Note,

Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John, you cannot avoid the ongoing water baptism til the end of the world.

3. Thank you, yes it makes perfect sense.

51

News Item8/28/13 11:14 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
MIKE...
Really, it says what he was baptized for? I must be missing the verse in my Bible where Philip says "This is for an outward testimony of your association with the life, death, and resurrection of Christ."
50

News Item8/28/13 7:40 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John for JESUS wrote:
JOHN UK...
Acts 19:6 could just be a reiteration of what happened in verse 5.
Water baptism was important to the Ethiopian however I don't know why and can only speculate because the Bible doesn't tell us why.
---
Yes it does, in the very example of it. What the Bible doesn't tell us, is that Philip told the Ethiopian that he shouldn't be baptized that way. It couldn't be more plain then, that it was the right way.
49

News Item8/28/13 6:33 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Didactic wrote:
"Is Infant Baptism Protestant?
In short, yes. All the Protestant Reformers including Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli and John Calvin held to infant baptism. Though these three great Protestants disagreed on many things, they all agreed on the Protestant doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. They also agreed that infant baptism is a biblical practice and the best expression of the Protestant gospel. In fact, infant baptism has been the practice of the historic Christian church since the Apostolic period" (R.S.Clark)
Baptism as a Sign and Seal of Covenant of Grace
Life in God's Covenant Beginning with Baptism
The Covenant of Baptism
You need write a letter to this church!! You have SOLVED their problem! They don't need to bother to go to the river, they can pour or sprinkle some water on their candidates for baptism in the comfort of their church. Genius!!!
48

News Item8/28/13 6:07 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Didactic wrote:
"Is Infant Baptism Protestant?
In short, yes. All the Protestant Reformers including Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli and John Calvin held to infant baptism. Though these three great Protestants disagreed on many things, they all agreed on the Protestant doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. They also agreed that infant baptism is a biblical practice and the best expression of the Protestant gospel. In fact, infant baptism has been the practice of the historic Christian church since the Apostolic period" (R.S.Clark)
Baptism as a Sign and Seal of Covenant of Grace
Life in God's Covenant Beginning with Baptism
The Covenant of Baptism
I still accept Infant Baptism but I don't believe that Infant Baptism imparts salvation. I believe that Infant Baptism is just a dedication of infants to Jesus.
47
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