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FRIDAY, APRIL 18, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
Choice News MONDAY, AUG 19, 2013| 146 comments
Presbyterian Church (USA) drops In Christ Alone from hymnal

An extraordinary dispute has arisen over a lyric contained one of the most beloved contemporary Christian hymns of the modern-day Church, "In Christ Alone".

According to Bob Smietana of USA Today, the committee putting together a new hymnal for the Presbyterian Church (USA) dropped the popular hymn because the song's authors refused to change a phrase about the wrath of God.

He said that the original lyrics say that "on that cross, as Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied."

The Presbyterian Committee on Congregational Song wanted to substitute the words, "the love of God was magnified." ...


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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 146 user comment(s)
News Item8/24/13 1:09 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
My dear bro, yes we sure would have some good fellowship, being both born again of the Spirit of God, having the same Saviour, Master and Lord, who alone is worthy of our worship and service.
And I would agree with your assessment. It would be a great shame if one of our friends was to come to know and love Jesus Christ, but we had to tell him when taking him to church: "Now you'll notice that we never ever mention the name JESUS in our singing, because the name does not appear anywhere in our hymnbook."
To which he would probably reply: "Well that's a funny old hymnbook you use, isn't it?"
And he might continue: "You mean it's never mentioned even once? That's a funny old church."
John UK Wales
Short comment here, I once asked a coworker who had long years ago been in an Islamic country before all the terrorism etc. and asked hiim what Christian hymn might Muslims not like.
He told me, the children's song

Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ENtBWFFN5o
Hmmm, I guess singing something like that would come out of using the Bible aright, and something us almost old timers can sometimes appreciate more than a little child

Even is some object to children loving Him

86

News Item8/24/13 12:51 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
You are in such a small box trying to wiggle your way out of all the errors you have made in this thread
Are you saying I am wrong on the gospel?

If you are, then I can only concur that you yourself are a false teacher, a works-salvationist. And nearly every other poster on these threads will stand with me on my gospel presentation.

Steve, we are at war.

See to it.

85

News Item8/24/13 12:50 PM
V.Edsoreltis | Sql  Find all comments by V.Edsoreltis
John UK wrote:
"Now you'll notice that we never ever mention the name JESUS in our singing, because the name does not appear anywhere in our hymnbook."
To which he would probably reply: "Well that's a funny old hymnbook you use, isn't it?"
John if you can't find Christ in the Old Testament then you really are sadly lacking in your doctrine.

Jesus can!

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

84

News Item8/24/13 12:43 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
"Now you'll notice that we never ever mention the name JESUS in our singing, because the name does not appear anywhere in our hymnbook."
You are in such a small box trying to wiggle your way out of all the errors you have made in this thread

btw-You could learn something from Catholics as they put many parts of the NT into song. Ever heard the Sermon on the Mount sung in Latin? Better than anything written by Luther

83

News Item8/24/13 12:42 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
It is very simple, & its just clear you dont understand
Yes it is very clear, Steve, and I understand it right well.

Maybe it is the use of words which is muddling your mind. Tell you what, I will use the word PACT, to make things even simpler.

In eternity past, the Father and Son made a pact. This pact was for the benefit of sinners whom God was going to save and give eternal life to. These sinners could not work for their salvation because they had sins to account for. Their only hope was for God to have mercy on them, forgive their sins, and impute righteousness to them. The only way this could be accomplished was for God to be made incarnate, become a perfect man living a perfect life, and for that perfection to be a vicarious sacrifice for the sins of the world from Adam & Eve to the last baby ever born. God can now justly forgive anyone from the OT times to the NT times to the end of the world, imputing the righteousness of Christ to them by faith, and then they receive the gift of eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ. It is all of grace, and none of works.

That is the gospel Steve. Do you believe it?

82

News Item8/24/13 12:31 PM
V.Edsoreltis | Sql  Find all comments by V.Edsoreltis
Michael Hranek wrote:
Is it Psalms Only? or
would it be better to say Pharisees Only?
I write this because it seems to me some of the (let's call them interpretations) are so similar to the Pharisee of taking something good in the Bible (for example the Sabbath)
FYI Michael the Pharisees were orthodox as far as the Old Testament is concerned.

So they did not sing uninspired hymns composed by sinners of the 18th/19th century. They used the Psalms as recorded by God.

Also they did not cast aside and dispose of the books of the OT which did not entertain them, such as you and the other hymn singers do.

The point in these posts is why do you disobey GOD by not using HIS Scriptures in the purpose for which HE intended?

81

News Item8/24/13 12:23 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
So let me ask you a question in consideration of how this thread (for politeness) discussion is going:
Is it Psalms Only? or
would it be better to say Pharisees Only?
I write this because it seems to me some of the (let's call them interpretations) are so similar to the Pharisee of taking something good in the Bible (for example the Sabbath) and then making it into something awful to be used to lord it over others and enslave them not to encourage them to love and trust God and walk in the Liberty God intends for His own
My dear bro, yes we sure would have some good fellowship, being both born again of the Spirit of God, having the same Saviour, Master and Lord, who alone is worthy of our worship and service.

And I would agree with your assessment. It would be a great shame if one of our friends was to come to know and love Jesus Christ, but we had to tell him when taking him to church: "Now you'll notice that we never ever mention the name JESUS in our singing, because the name does not appear anywhere in our hymnbook."

To which he would probably reply: "Well that's a funny old hymnbook you use, isn't it?"

And he might continue: "You mean it's never mentioned even once? That's a funny old church."

80

News Item8/24/13 12:09 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
From the Baptist 1689 confession 7/3:
"This covenant [of grace] is revealed through the Gospel; first of all to Adam in the promise of salvation by the seed of the woman, and afterwards by further steps until the full revelation of it became complete in the New Testament. The covenant of salvation rests
It is very simple, & its just clear you dont understand

1) Adam & Eve were not jews nor from any Hebrew tribe
2) Adam and Eve were not part of the 'Old Covenant' that Covenant is introduced by Moses centuries after Adam and Eve
3) Adam and Eve believed in the PROMISE that they would be redeemed

The same Psalms sung by those that later(under the Law) reflected on those promises. The Psalms apply today as well as under david as well as at Creation.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Someone as misguided as you are has ZERO authority to beguile readers on this board about
1) When Psalms Apply
2) which Christian denominations are actually Christian(ie Mega Churches & Apostolic Churches)

79

News Item8/24/13 12:02 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
It is the Holy Ghost who has convinced me that salvation from Adam & Eve onwards has been by grace. If you wish to call HIM a religious charlatan, you have the freedom to do so, but I would not recommend it.
I just ran a check to find an article about this and came up with CARM . Have a look Steve and see what you think. It is very brief but straight to the point.
Dear Brother John UK Wales
While you and I have had our differences of opinion I still value the reality that we get along reasonable well and should I ever have the blessing of visiting Wales I believe it is safe to say you and I would have no problem fellowshipping together.

So let me ask you a question in consideration of how this thread (for politeness) discussion is going:

Is it Psalms Only? or
would it be better to say Pharisees Only?

I write this because it seems to me some of the (let's call them interpretations) are so similar to the Pharisee of taking something good in the Bible (for example the Sabbath) and then making it into something awful to be used to lord it over others and enslave them not to encourage them to love and trust God and walk in the Liberty God intends for His own

78

News Item8/24/13 11:59 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
First you said the Jews under the old covenant(Mosaic) were saved by a COVENANT of grace and now you want to compound that error with the promise of salvation to Adam and Eve?
From the Baptist 1689 confession 7/3:

"This covenant [of grace] is revealed through the Gospel; first of all to Adam in the promise of salvation by the seed of the woman, and afterwards by further steps until the full revelation of it became complete in the New Testament. The covenant of salvation rests upon an eternal covenant transaction between the Father and the Son about the redemption of the elect. It is solely by the grace of this covenant that all the descendants of fallen Adam who have ever been saved have obtained life and blessed immortality, because man is now utterly incapable of gaining acceptance with God on the terms by which Adam stood in his state of innocency."

It's simple enough, really. The answer to the question, "How can a man be right with God?" can only be answered by the grace of God. The man is a sinner, condemned. It makes no difference whether he be born in OT or NT, if he be not saved by grace, he be not saved, period.

Works only lasted a short while till Adam & Eve sinned.

77

News Item8/24/13 11:44 AM
Traditional Christian  Find all comments by Traditional Christian
John UK wrote:
The psalms were all written under the terms of the old covenant
Hey John the entire Old Testament was written under that same authority. Does that mean that your sect rejects the whole OT as well?

John UK wrote:
So that to sing the psalms will give a wrong emphasis on the workings of God, and can lead to a wrong thinking on what God is doing.
Do you imply God got it wrong then John?

Christ is to be found in the whole Bible whether OT or NT. Again does your sect proclaim that the Old Testament was flawed and unacceptable to you morally superior people of modern religions?

Do you and your sect bin the ten Commandments as well then John?

If you prefer another way to the Christian path what do you call your religion?

Sermons Here on SA that teach Christ in the OT:-
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?keyword=Christ+Old+Testament&selectsearch=

76

News Item8/24/13 11:32 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
It is the Holy Ghost who has convinced me that salvation from Adam & Eve onwards has been by grace. If you wish to call HIM a religious charlatan, you have the freedom to do so, but I would not recommend it.
I just ran a check to find an article about this and came up with CARM . Have a look Steve and see what you think. It is very brief but straight to the point.
First you said the Jews under the old covenant(Mosaic) were saved by a COVENANT of grace and now you want to compound that error with the promise of salvation to Adam and Eve?
75

News Item8/24/13 11:17 AM
Java clr  Find all comments by Java clr
John UK wrote:
But many will be out of place and obsolete.
Some chapters of the Word of God are now obsolete. it must be difficult discerning which ones are relevant and irrelevant.

Mr. CARM produced an infamous atheist daughter. His ministry didn't take at home.

74

News Item8/24/13 11:13 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
What religious charlatan convinced you that the Mosaic Covenant was one of Grace? Or did you think this up all by your lonesome?
It is the Holy Ghost who has convinced me that salvation from Adam & Eve onwards has been by grace. If you wish to call HIM a religious charlatan, you have the freedom to do so, but I would not recommend it.

I just ran a check to find an article about this and came up with CARM . Have a look Steve and see what you think. It is very brief but straight to the point.

73

News Item8/24/13 10:53 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
The psalms were all written under the terms of the old covenant, when God dealt differently with his people and the world. At that time, only the Jews were accepted in the covenant of grace,
What religious charlatan convinced you that the Mosaic Covenant was one of Grace? Or did you think this up all by your lonesome?
72

News Item8/24/13 3:13 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
It seems to me that new covenant worship should involve new covenant principles and doctrines, with Christ at the very centre.

The psalms were all written under the terms of the old covenant, when God dealt differently with his people and the world. At that time, only the Jews were accepted in the covenant of grace, and the world was reprobated. Any non-Jew wishing to belong to Jehovah had to become a Jew, and they were accepted, but these were rare.

In the new covenant, it says that "God so loved the world", so that Gentiles were included the whole world over, those who repented and trusted Christ.

So that to sing the psalms will give a wrong emphasis on the workings of God, and can lead to a wrong thinking on what God is doing. Little wonder that PO churches are so militant and unloving, for they are still living in a time when "the heathen" are already judged by God and have no chance. Little wonder then that PO people rely on infant baptism for church growth, because evangelism was unknown under the old covenant, and they are just continuing the same.

Of course, some psalms will embrace both covenants, like psalm 23, where Jesus takes the place of "The Lord" instead of Jehovah, as my Shepherd. But many will be out of place and obsolete.

71

News Item8/24/13 12:43 AM
Dumbfounded  Find all comments by Dumbfounded
SteveR wrote:
There isnt a prooftext denying contemporary hymns, just as there isnt a prooftext that denies baptism to infants. My point is that the prolific hypocrites on this message board that cite Sola Scriptura to demean other Christians themselves gladly feed their fleshy desires of worship.
imo- I dont think your voodoo drums belong in the Worship of my God, but I dont categorize your entire Church as Satan worshippers if you use them. I might consider you (Lurker) a servant of Satan for your constant hatred of HIS people in other Churches, but not because of the drums.
Why is this ignorant unloving bully still allowed on these forums?
70

News Item8/23/13 10:19 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Also, did not want to leave out a word of thanks to Michael and Lurker for their kind words and acts. Y'all are a real blessing to me. God bless you both, thanks to God for your presence in this forum.
69

News Item8/23/13 8:12 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Psalms Only wrote:
I could give you the whole theological discussion ...
The argument boils down to there is use of instruments in the New Testament. Okay, we will let slip the use of harps and trumpets in Revelation. Thus no command to use instruments in the New Testament. So, now we look for the command to NOT use musical instruments? (crickets chirping) So, BY THE SAME LOGIC, if the silence that no instruments are commanded means don't use any, then the silence that no instruments are forbidden, means we are allowed to use any instrument in a service. The logic is the same. I can say there is no commandment forbidding any instruments so the use of them does NOT violate ANY commands of Holy Scripture.

There is no use a sound system commanded in the Word, so we are in violation of God's Word if we have one? The same logic is being applied.

My Bible says I can play the piano in church for the glory of God. (see I Corinthians 10:31) What verse do you find that says that this is a violation of Scripture? Where in the New or Old Testament are those worshiping God commanded not to use instruments? Not what does a confession or commentary say, where in the Bible do you find such a command? I am willing to learn. Thanks

68

News Item8/23/13 5:14 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Psalms Only wrote:
More insults again John. Christians don't do that.
You say I insult you.
You say Christians don't do that.
thus:
John UK is no Christian.

And you expect me to take you seriously?

I told you not to come back with more blah blah in answer to my question. And what do you do? You answer just like a deceptive politician, with blather and more blather. How can you convince anyone that you have it correct when you behave so unseemly and deceptively?

Let me give you an example of your idiocy: I ask you what tunes you sing your psalms to, and you answer, "Precentor".

What kind of answer is that?

Then you say: "The psalms, hymns and spiritual songs which are the book of Psalms, were first written by versification in Hebrew."

Versification is the process of transforming prose into poetry, so how can you say the psalms were versified, if they already were?

Now it would be a good thing if you could inform me what the Lollards sang as they worshipped God. Remember that they were pre-Calvin but post-Pentecost.

Do you actually want a sensible debate? Then act sensibly. If you want to claim perfection for the old Presby line, then I pity your washed brain.

67
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