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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/2/2014
FRIDAY, MAY 10, 2013  |  84 comments
When Christians become a 'hated minority'
When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
religion.blogs.cnn.com

Attitude Toward Homosexuality?
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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 84 user comment(s)
News Item5/11/13 6:13 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Observer wrote:
The Presbys think to be born again means to have magic water sprinkled on them in the name of a fictional covenant. I don't know which is worse!
Those who attach any meaning to this other than a spiritual and radical change of nature are wrong!
So Nicodemus the literalist was wrong. SteveR the Romanist is wrong. Presbys with their baptismal regeneration are wrong. Yurich the decisional regenerationist (quick Prayerism) is wrong, and the Anglican you spoke to is wrong.
Which is why THEY MUST BE BORN AGAIN!
Yes indeed! I was just thinking, the only people who know what it means to be born again, are those who have been born again.
24

News Item5/11/13 5:47 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
John UK wrote:
Many years ago, I sat outside a small cafe by the River Axe in Devon, England, having an ice cream and chatting to an unregenerate anglican minister. Not wishing to pass up the opportunity, I asked him about being born again, and he replied that in his world the new birth was all about stepping up a notch in office within the anglican communion.
I could see that here I had a tricky dicky to deal with.
It's amazing what folks come up with. But of course, without any spiritual enlightenment, almost anything goes.
The Presbys think to be born again means to have magic water sprinkled on them in the name of a fictional covenant. I don't know which is worse!

Those who attach any meaning to this other than a spiritual and radical change of nature are wrong!

So Nicodemus the literalist was wrong. SteveR the Romanist is wrong. Presbys with their baptismal regeneration are wrong. Yurich the decisional regenerationist (quick Prayerism) is wrong, and the Anglican you spoke to is wrong.

Which is why THEY MUST BE BORN AGAIN!

23

News Item5/11/13 5:29 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Observer wrote:
YE MUST is an imperative for sure.
But my point is that to literalist Nicodemus 'birth' meant 'birth' and so to his mind his question about entering again into his mothers womb was a natural enough question. Why did the Lord have to chide and explain to a master in Israel that this was a spiritual experience? Surely what limited him in his understanding was his literalism!
Many years ago, I sat outside a small cafe by the River Axe in Devon, England, having an ice cream and chatting to an unregenerate anglican minister. Not wishing to pass up the opportunity, I asked him about being born again, and he replied that in his world the new birth was all about stepping up a notch in office within the anglican communion.

I could see that here I had a tricky dicky to deal with.

It's amazing what folks come up with. But of course, without any spiritual enlightenment, almost anything goes.

22

News Item5/11/13 5:17 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Mike wrote:
Not at all, it was quite clear. Being born again is a spiritual birth, as Jesus explained to him, but when Nicodemus was told YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN, it was a literal command/requirement.
YE MUST is an imperative for sure.

But my point is that to literalist Nicodemus 'birth' meant 'birth' and so to his mind his question about entering again into his mothers womb was a natural enough question. Why did the Lord have to chide and explain to a master in Israel that this was a spiritual experience? Surely what limited him in his understanding was his literalism!

I am glad you agree that 'spiritual' understanding is NOT fuzzification!!

21

News Item5/11/13 5:11 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Observer wrote:
So the Lord telling Nicodemus YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN was fuzzification?
Not at all, it was quite clear. Being born again is a spiritual birth, as Jesus explained to him, but when Nicodemus was told YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN, it was a literal command/requirement.
20

News Item5/11/13 2:16 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Unprofitable wrote:
......The amills have to explain away or allegorize passages that are obviously literal in order to keep all their ducks in a row eschatologically speaking.......
Care to give examples of this bro?
19

News Item5/11/13 12:28 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
ok Christopher, I will stand with you. The amills have to explain away or allegorize passages that are obviously literal in order to keep all their ducks in a row eschatologically speaking. But it is not like the paedobaptist who make up false doctrine, there is definitely a case that can be made for their system. For instance, if you look up at the parable of the sheep and the goats, there would be no indication between a difference between the timing of the judgment seat of Christ and the great White Throne judgment. No 1000 years, etc. Most of those who hold to a amillennial view also would be strictly covenant in their theology (Covenant of Works, Covenant of Redemption, Covenant of Grace) most who hold to preimillianism would be more or less dispensational. None of that is written in stone as people vary. It would be rare to get one to change in their thinking as Observer said it is a matter of hermeneutics or the laws of biblical interpretation. I personally believe you have to take the Bible literally unless it is indicated in context otherwise. I also, to teeter on the other side, don't think that Scofield had proper theology either. There is, however, nothing in the context of the 1000 years in Revelation to indicate that it is not literal.
18

News Item5/11/13 12:23 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Mike wrote:
...Real things, people, events, aren't used to represent symbols, as some might seem have you to believe. The key is discernment.
No one that I know of states that real things are used to represent symbols!! Spiritual does NOT mean symbolic!!
17

News Item5/11/13 12:11 PM
Faith Working through Love  Find all comments by Faith Working through Love
John UK wrote:
Only in time, bro. When the Lord returns, everyone will believe the same.
Love talks and doctrine walks in heaven.
16

News Item5/11/13 12:05 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
John UK wrote:
Only in time, bro. When the Lord returns, everyone will believe the same.
Not if they're Presbys cos no doubt they'll still be prating on about this fictional covenant and their special status cuz of it!

Of course I'm being generous and allowing that some will be saved irrespective of their errors!

15

News Item5/11/13 11:36 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Observer wrote:
There are as many amillenialists as there are premills.
Only in time, bro. When the Lord returns, everyone will believe the same.
14

News Item5/11/13 11:34 AM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
John UK wrote:
Christopher, if the millennial issue was a standalone docrine, then sure it would okay to keep an open mind and not let it become schismatic. However, it does not stand by itself, there are other doctrines involved, doctrines which affect the gospel itself. If you accept the thousand year reign of Christ on earth from Jerusalem, know that there are other things to accept also, things you may not agree with. However, Rome wasn't built in a day, and your understanding of biblical things will be no different. None of us will ever stop learning, because God is so much greater than we are.
Good points John!
13

News Item5/11/13 10:17 AM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Mike wrote:
What benefit would be yours in coming around to the fuzzification of Scripture, Chris? Remember symbolism is often used to represent real things, people, events. Real things, people, events, aren't used to represent symbols, as some might seem have you to believe. The key is discernment.
So the Lord telling Nicodemus YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN was fuzzification?
12

News Item5/11/13 10:16 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
I feel like a hated minority by JPW, and some remaining silent, because, for now, I tend to believe in a literal millenial reign on Earth...ha-ha. Maybe I'll come around. I just find myself working real hard to view it any other way for now.
Christopher, if the millennial issue was a standalone docrine, then sure it would okay to keep an open mind and not let it become schismatic. However, it does not stand by itself, there are other doctrines involved, doctrines which affect the gospel itself. If you accept the thousand year reign of Christ on earth from Jerusalem, know that there are other things to accept also, things you may not agree with. However, Rome wasn't built in a day, and your understanding of biblical things will be no different. None of us will ever stop learning, because God is so much greater than we are.
11

News Item5/11/13 10:13 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Christopher000 wrote:
I feel like a hated minority by JPW, and some remaining silent, because, for now, I tend to believe in a literal millenial reign on Earth...ha-ha. Maybe I'll come around. I just find myself working real hard to view it any other way for now.
What benefit would be yours in coming around to the fuzzification of Scripture, Chris? Remember symbolism is often used to represent real things, people, events. Real things, people, events, aren't used to represent symbols, as some might seem have you to believe. The key is discernment.
10

News Item5/11/13 10:11 AM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Christopher000 wrote:
I feel like a hated minority by JPW, and some remaining silent, because, for now, I tend to believe in a literal millenial reign on Earth...ha-ha. Maybe I'll come around. I just find myself working real hard to view it any other way for now.
Hey Chris

1. There are as many amillenialists as there are premills.
2. There are many professors of theology who are amills and many have even written extensive treatises on the subject.
3. Eschatology is very much dependant on one's hermeneutic. The crux of the issue is therefore the hermeneutic. Since we are taught that to know the mind of God we must compare scripture with scripture then this must surely be the best way to get to the bottom of this issue of literalism versus Spiritualizing.

I asked a question a while back - see my post of 5/7/13 9.58 AM - to which no one from the literalist school has responded. Please take a look at the post and have a go at answering it. While you are at it also look at all the other OT references which the Spirit of God has expounded in the NT and see whether the Spirit's own exposition is literal or not. It's a great study and is sure to revolutionize your studies.

9

News Item5/11/13 8:11 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I feel like a hated minority by JPW, and some remaining silent, because, for now, I tend to believe in a literal millenial reign on Earth...ha-ha. Maybe I'll come around. I just find myself working real hard to view it any other way for now.
8

News Item5/10/13 3:59 PM
  
1 Corinthians 6: 9-10
1 Timothy 1: 8-10
Scripture is pretty clear on the issue.
I was struck recently by the story of the French rejecting gay marriage, including many of those who are gay. Though it is no less a sin for them they at least have a better perspective on it, it's not normal and they are ok with that.
7

News Item5/10/13 3:57 PM
We dont belong here  Find all comments by We dont belong here
The followers of Christ have always been a "hated minority."

Thats what Remnant means.

And
Matt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

6

News Item5/10/13 1:58 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
5
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