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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/21/2014
Choice News THURSDAY, MAR 21, 2013  |  79 comments  |  2 commentaries
Matthew Vines Launches 'Reformation Project' to Make Churches Gay-Affirming

Matthew Vines, a Harvard-educated gay Christian who sparked a great deal of controversy in the church community last year with his in-depth analysis on why the Bible does not condemn homosexuality, has launched a new leadership training conference aimed at teaching Christians how to lead LGBT-friendly churches and communities.

In a video announcing the project, Vines says The Reformation Project will "train, connect and empower gay Christians and their allies to reform church teaching on homosexuality from the ground up."

Vines gained a wide recognition and stirred controversy last year with his hour-long YouTube video, which has gained over half a million views, where he presented a detailed argument on why he believes the Bible does not condemn gay people. ...


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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 79 user comment(s)
News Item3/21/13 12:04 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
A Christian can lapse into sin, perhaps even what we might call habitual sin, but they will agonize over it, confess it, turn from it and ask their heavenly Father to deliver them from all sin. They will not and cannot practice sin without this spiritual battle taking place. Anyone who practices sin as this fellow does and tries to get others to do the same thing cannot be in the faith, nor was ever in the faith.

The only thing confusing about any of this is how we each define the term habitual. But, I am unaware that David or any other saved person in scripture attempted to get others to join them in their folly.

19

News Item3/21/13 11:44 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Watchman wrote:
If you don't know the difference between someone converted and sinning during backsliding and someone who was never born again but wants to be considered religious and continue to sin, even justifying that sin, then you have a real problem bud....
I must confess then, I do have a real problem.

I do understand the conditions you describe, I do not understand how you believe one can righteously evaluate this. Nor has the criteria for evaluation been provided. What is the definition of "habitual". Was not King David in a state of "habitual" sin? If not, what would he have had to do to be considered "habitual"? What was the tenor of King David's life as he was murdering?

A believer can return to his vomit, can become slothful, can become a drunkard, can become a murderer and yes can become a sodomite. It does not mean he is disowned by his father, or that he wasn't a believer to begin with, it just means he's in trouble with his heavenly father and will suffer in this life and at the judgment save for repentance.

18

News Item3/21/13 11:40 AM
Ancord  Find all comments by Ancord
Christians have read the Bible for thousands of years and condemned the abomination as sinful, defiling and wicked. Now some kid from Harvard joins the Liberal anti-Bible satanic clamor to redesignate "sin" as acceptable to God.

Satan is working very hard with the insidious deceit of Liberalism to poison and pullute the church and confound and confute the sound doctrine of the Christian, seeking as always to destroy the Word of God.

Many will follow Satan's insidious and pernicious ways "by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of" as Peter states.

The battle is on for truth, Church and Christian and Satan has raised the stakes during these recent times. The victory of course is in Christ and that is without doubt. The one thing which Satan and his Liberals cannot do is overcome the true Church as Jesus states " the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Sodom and Gomorrah is a recorded historic event which demonstrates God's Justice and punishment of the abomination of homosexuality. That truth is recorded in the Word of God.
Romans Chapter one teaches God's wrath against and His rejection of what He terms "is against nature" (v26).
God made them man and woman and creates marriage ONLY for such.

Homosexual practice is abomination.

17

News Item3/21/13 11:29 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Watchman wrote:
If you don't know the difference between someone converted and sinning during backsliding and someone who was never born again but wants to be considered religious and continue to sin, even justifying that sin, then you have a real problem bud.
Clues - look at the tenor of their life- do they care for Holiness, do they agree with God when God calls something sin. If they do fall, is it occasional, or habitual. Do they recover and desire to be closer to the Lord. Do they struggle with sin etc.
If you see someone who professes Christ but plans and wants to continue to live in the most 'in your face' sin and tries to justify it, I would suggest that that person does not know true conviction, let alone true conversion.
Watchman
Good post! I thank God for comments like the one you made. They are such an encouragement that God indeed has His remnant in these increasingly difficult and perilous times we are living in when so many church attendee and the apostate pulpiteers in their pulpits put on a show and pretend to know Christ.

Matthew 11:25-27

16

News Item3/21/13 11:18 AM
Watchman  Find all comments by Watchman
Rufus wrote:
King David's fall was more than one occasion, lasted for a time and got worse and worse. Even after being chastened, he sinned the other way in his dealings with Absalom. What is the definition of habitual sin that causes one to lose his salvation or prove that he was never saved to begin with?
If you don't know the difference between someone converted and sinning during backsliding and someone who was never born again but wants to be considered religious and continue to sin, even justifying that sin, then you have a real problem bud.

Clues - look at the tenor of their life- do they care for Holiness, do they agree with God when God calls something sin. If they do fall, is it occasional, or habitual. Do they recover and desire to be closer to the Lord. Do they struggle with sin etc.

If you see someone who professes Christ but plans and wants to continue to live in the most 'in your face' sin and tries to justify it, I would suggest that that person does not know true conviction, let alone true conversion.

15

News Item3/21/13 10:48 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Phew! Maybe the "good news" should be reclassified as "bad news", and the "finished work" redefined as "you'd better come up to scratch or else".

Nah, I think I'll stick to:

Tell me the old old story
Tell me the old old story
Tell me the old old story
Of Jesus and his love.

I'm outta here!

14

News Item3/21/13 10:11 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Watchman wrote:
An occasional fall, sure.
But this is NOT what we are discussing here.
If someone is prepared to live in habitual sin and tries to find ways to justify it as "unsinful', then that person can never ever be called a Christian.
King David's fall was more than one occasion, lasted for a time and got worse and worse. Even after being chastened, he sinned the other way in his dealings with Absalom. What is the definition of habitual sin that causes one to lose his salvation or prove that he was never saved to begin with?
13

News Item3/21/13 9:57 AM
Watchman  Find all comments by Watchman
Rufus wrote:
In the sense that Christian means to follow after Christ, it is oxymoronic. Other oxymorons would include alcohol drinking Christian, movie/tv watching Christian, gluttonous Christian, uncharitable Christian.
If the sense of the word Christian is one who has been saved, then that Christian can be all of the above. I know of a Christian in the Bible who was a godly man and was a man after God's heart. Yet, he became slothful, looked on a woman lustfully, acted on his lust and committed adultery, then engaged in lie and deceit, then killed a man. He didn't get unsaved in that vomit and it didn't mean he wasn't truly a believer, it just meant he was in trouble with his spiritual father and that father chastised him as a good father should.
Hebrews 12:6 - For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
An occasional fall, sure.

But this is NOT what we are discussing here.

If someone is prepared to live in habitual sin and tries to find ways to justify it as "unsinful', then that person can never ever be called a Christian.

12

News Item3/21/13 9:33 AM
thom | sc  Find all comments by thom
if you need a Harvard education to be able to find a way to justify this, there is definitely a problem with it.
11

News Item3/21/13 9:23 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Christopher000 wrote:
....
Gay Christian...oxymoron?
In the sense that Christian means to follow after Christ, it is oxymoronic. Other oxymorons would include alcohol drinking Christian, movie/tv watching Christian, gluttonous Christian, uncharitable Christian.

If the sense of the word Christian is one who has been saved, then that Christian can be all of the above. I know of a Christian in the Bible who was a godly man and was a man after God's heart. Yet, he became slothful, looked on a woman lustfully, acted on his lust and committed adultery, then engaged in lie and deceit, then killed a man. He didn't get unsaved in that vomit and it didn't mean he wasn't truly a believer, it just meant he was in trouble with his spiritual father and that father chastised him as a good father should.

Hebrews 12:6 - For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

10

News Item3/21/13 9:07 AM
Watchman  Find all comments by Watchman
Rufus wrote:
There is such a thing as a Roman Catholic bought by the blood of Jesus Christ believer who has received the free gift of eternal life. However, they will be in trouble in this life and at the judgment seat of Christ if they do not come out from among them and continue to make an uncertain sound.
Likewise, there is such a thing as a bought by the blood of Jesus Christ believer who is given up to a reprobate mind and turned over to that which is unseemly.
From Romans 1...
...who hold the truth in unrighteousness
...Because that, when they knew God
...as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge
...Who knowing the judgment of God
9

News Item3/21/13 8:47 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I agree. Having the knowledge I do concerning Roman Catholic doctrines, dogmas, and rituals, not to mention its nefarious history of murderous rampage against the saints, there is just no way that anyone who is truly born again can remain within her. Their spirit would continually scream for them to get out. No truly born again Christian could choose to be yoked together in marraige with a Roman Catholic either...it just doesn't jive.

Gay Christian...oxymoron?

8

News Item3/21/13 8:37 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
There is such a thing as a Roman Catholic bought by the blood of Jesus Christ believer who has received the free gift of eternal life. However, they will be in trouble in this life and at the judgment seat of Christ if they do not come out from among them and continue to make an uncertain sound.

Likewise, there is such a thing as a bought by the blood of Jesus Christ believer who is given up to a reprobate mind and turned over to that which is unseemly.

From Romans 1...
...who hold the truth in unrighteousness

...Because that, when they knew God

...as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge

...Who knowing the judgment of God

7

News Item3/21/13 8:35 AM
Babylonian captivity  Find all comments by Babylonian captivity
John Yurich USA wrote:
Yes a Catholic can be a Christian if they embrace Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
This formula is totally Pelagian (e.g. 'you embrace God'). What corner of the RCC teaches this methodology? Come out from among the multitude of denominations and Baptist churches who teach this deadly 'Embrace God' theology.
6

News Item3/21/13 8:33 AM
Watchman  Find all comments by Watchman
John Yurich USA wrote:
Yes a Catholic can be a Christian if they embrace Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Exactly the same argument could be used by the sodomites to justify Homosexual Christians.

Just look at at all the "Christian Homosexual Cardinals" in the RCC. They've got the best of both worlds!

5

News Item3/21/13 8:21 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Watchman wrote:
There is also no such thing as a Roman Catholic Christian, but this does not seem to stop you calling yourself one!
Yes a Catholic can be a Christian if they embrace Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
4

News Item3/21/13 7:34 AM
reforming right off the rails  Find all comments by reforming right off the rails
3

News Item3/21/13 7:21 AM
Watchman  Find all comments by Watchman
John Yurich USA wrote:
There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian.
There is also no such thing as a Roman Catholic Christian, but this does not seem to stop you calling yourself one!
2

News Item3/21/13 7:16 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian.
1
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