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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/20/2014
SUNDAY, JAN 20, 2013  |  85 comments  |  1 commentary
Public School Bans Religious Visitors
An Arkansas public school district has banned youth pastors and other religious groups from visiting during school hours after a Wisconsin group filed a complaint and called the practice ‚Äúpredatory.‚ÄĚ

‚ÄúWe have temporarily suspended allowing these youth pastors and other faith based leaders to come in during the lunch hour and we are reviewing policy and the law,‚ÄĚ Conway Public School Supt. Greg Murry told Fox News.

The school district has retained the services of Liberty Institute, a law firm known for handling religious liberty cases. ...


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Public School Bans Visitors • 210+
Sean E. Harris | Berean Baptist Church
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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 85 user comment(s)
News Item1/21/13 12:03 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Pastor Mike wrote:
How so? It'd seem to me that my decision is no more willful than that of the subject of my analogy, as both have the complete inability to begin to perform what's expected.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.... the God you deny even exists, made you reject Him?

Now, that, my willfully ignorant friend, is a paradox.

25

News Item1/21/13 11:55 AM
Pastor Mike  Find all comments by Pastor Mike
Lurker wrote:
Cute, but false analogy. At the end of days you'll be cast into outer darkness because you made a conscience, willful decision to refuse to believe...
How so? It'd seem to me that my decision is no more willful than that of the subject of my analogy, as both have the complete inability to begin to perform what's expected.
24

News Item1/21/13 11:04 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Andrew Six wrote:
---
For the hearer of the message, if he fails to believe, God caused it. If he believes, God put it there. But in no case does any act of God relieve man of his responsibility to obey.
Nor does the presence if an impossible command relieve us of obligation to obey it. Nightmare? Yes. But Martin Luther noted that obligation does not imply ability to fulfill it, and that is precisely the situation of the sinner. That is why he must place his faith entirely on God for his eternal future.
---
Sounds a bit like double predestination. God as author of unbelief, which is sin, is simply a false concept.
23

News Item1/21/13 9:34 AM
Natatall  Find all comments by Natatall
Evolution is not even Science!

A pile of theories fabricating a scenario which is completely implausible.

Hey, PM, care to explain how life evolved from the inanimate? By what mechanism? Is your theory capable of proof? Can you produce life from the inanimate? If not, you believe in absolute twaddle!!

22

News Item1/21/13 9:20 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
"Pastor" Mike, you have stated you believe in evolution. Though you have NO proof of evolution yet you chose to believe in it. So, I don't put any credibility in your assertion that you don't believe in a God because there is no proof. The order and complexity in the universe (i.e. being closer to the sun would burn us up, being farther would freeze us out, but we are the exact correct distance for life to be sustained) is plenty proof. You have already, by your own admission taken a large leap of faith to believe in a theory that has no scientific proof. Only the God in whom you do not believe will be able to open your eyes to the truth. There is nothing in the constitution that would prohibit people from exercising their religious freedom on school grounds, the restrictions is on the government not the individual. It has been turned upside down by liberal courts.
21

News Item1/21/13 8:41 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Michael Hranek wrote:

66 Books
3 Languages
3 Continents
40 some authors
1600 years
Supernatural Corroboration!

Michael, excellent post and point. I always want to mention these facts whwn debating but can never remember the numbers. The Bible is an integrated, 3 out of 4 error correcting, message system that spreads it's truth throughout the available bandwidth to prevent hostile jamming. For example, there is no specific. chapter on salvation, etc.
P Mike, thanks for the friendly response. Sometimes I don't return to threads when I expect someone to react violently to one of my posts. Anyway, I'll hit you up with something later...something a bit different. I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out what I could say that you haven't heard a thousand times over. I think you've probably argued every point and will stand firm with your views on any creation related evidences so I won't waste my time with that. I do have something a bit different though, something much more edgy for this site that I can pass along to get your thoughts.
I'll return when I have more time...

20

News Item1/21/13 6:12 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Pastor Mike wrote:
Isn't even the crying out for salvation and understanding of one's own inability a gift from God? If it were otherwise, men could take credit for their own salvation. Because of this I see it as a paradox still.
It is not wise, Mike, to find such a loophole for not repenting. That will not help your cause at all. Note what God says,

Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

and

Isaiah 45:22 KJV
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

and

Acts 17:26-27 KJV
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Isaiah 1:18 KJV
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

This is the word of the Lord.

19

News Item1/21/13 4:28 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Paraphrasing Voddie Baucham:
Any answer to any other question comes down to "Why I chose to Believe the Bible"

YouTube's 46 minute video is more than worth the time it takes to watch "The Most Important Question For Christians to be Able to Answer.

And two ways to NOT answer that question.

And IMHO Christians who know solidly logically "Why I chose to believe the Bible" will be a great (quote) blessing to scoffers.

66 Books
3 Languages
3 Continents
40 some authors
1600 years
Supernatural Corroboration (if I have spelled this wonderfully encouraging word correctly)

18

News Item1/21/13 2:40 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Pastor Mike wrote:
No, that only confirms the paradox. It exposes a major problem with the teachings of scripture.
Let's say I issue a command to my dog to get a job (Mark 1:15); I'm tired of supporting him. He's my dog and as my property he's obligated to obey (Ecclesiastes 12:13.) I've made no provision for my dog's employment. As a dog he's incapable of securing employment on his own (John 6:44.) When I return home from work at the end of every day I beat my dog mercilessly (II Thessalonians 1:9) for his failure to find gainful employment while laughing like a mad man (Proverbs 1:26.)
Now everybody with common decency knows I'd be a sick malevolent freak if I did that and police would be locking me up for animal cruelty. Yet somehow when you substitute "God" for "dog owner," decency, logic, and common sense go out the window for you Christians.
Cute, but false analogy. At the end of days you'll be cast into outer darkness because you made a conscience, willful decision to refuse to believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. That the Father never drew you to the Son (never set it in your heart to diligently seek Him) does not excuse your rejection of God.

A paradox exists only in the mind of the unbelieving.

17

News Item1/21/13 2:12 AM
Eric  Find all comments by Eric
Pastor Mike,

The proof is in Jesus Christ, His life, death, and resurrection. His resurrection affirms the works of Jesus and what He proclaimed Himself to be as the Son of God. And His resurrection is the only plausible explanation for the cause of the rapid rise of Christianity. He has risen brother. Believe!

16

News Item1/21/13 12:42 AM
Pastor Mike  Find all comments by Pastor Mike
Andrew Six wrote:
Does all that help clear up the paradox?
No, that only confirms the paradox. It exposes a major problem with the teachings of scripture.

Let's say I issue a command to my dog to get a job (Mark 1:15); I'm tired of supporting him. He's my dog and as my property he's obligated to obey (Ecclesiastes 12:13.) I've made no provision for my dog's employment. As a dog he's incapable of securing employment on his own (John 6:44.) When I return home from work at the end of every day I beat my dog mercilessly (II Thessalonians 1:9) for his failure to find gainful employment while laughing like a mad man (Proverbs 1:26.)

Now everybody with common decency knows I'd be a sick malevolent freak if I did that and police would be locking me up for animal cruelty. Yet somehow when you substitute "God" for "dog owner," decency, logic, and common sense go out the window for you Christians.

15

News Item1/20/13 11:37 PM
Andrew Six | Tucson  Find all comments by Andrew Six
Pastor Mike, the kind people of this forum are simply attempting to explain the mechanics behind the process of salvation; there is no paradox.

Let me explain. God has decided who will live and who will die. Humans are not privy to that information. Still, God has issued a command to believe in him to all humankind. Since he owns us, we are under obligation to obey.

Thus, when we preach, we carry that command to repent and believe, with the understanding that we are only the tools God uses to the end of salvation. We cannot therefore take credit for it.

For the hearer of the message, if he fails to believe, God caused it. If he believes, God put it there. But in no case does any act of God relieve man of his responsibility to obey.

Nor does the presence if an impossible command relieve us of obligation to obey it. Nightmare? Yes. But Martin Luther noted that obligation does not imply ability to fulfill it, and that is precisely the situation of the sinner. That is why he must place his faith entirely on God for his eternal future.

In short, the controlled nature of man's responses is just an explanation of the mechanics of salvation.

Does all that help clear up the paradox?

14

News Item1/20/13 7:44 PM
Bro. James | Texas  Find all comments by Bro. James
How dare this Mike character bring so LOW the name Pastor. Mike! You sir should remove the title pastor from your name an replace it with
Hireling Mike!
13

News Item1/20/13 7:06 PM
Pastor Mike  Find all comments by Pastor Mike
John UK wrote:
But when you find that you are unable to do that, you might care to cry out to God to enable you, to quicken you, to enlighten you, and grant you faith and repentance. If you are serious about it, he WILL do all these things FOR you.
Isn't even the crying out for salvation and understanding of one's own inability a gift from God? If it were otherwise, men could take credit for their own salvation. Because of this I see it as a paradox still.
12

News Item1/20/13 6:46 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Pastor Mike wrote:
That's as ridiculous (and malevolent) as me saying, "I expect my pet dog to earn himself a living even though I don't ever give him the opportunity to earn himself a living."
Seems that way, doesn't it?

Tell you what, try repenting of your own free will, put your trust in Christ, change your ways, close down your ridiculous "church", and ask God's forgiveness for all your wickedness, and receive eternal life as a free gift of God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

But when you find that you are unable to do that, you might care to cry out to God to enable you, to quicken you, to enlighten you, and grant you faith and repentance. If you are serious about it, he WILL do all these things FOR you.

"God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent", and to those who find themselves incapable of obeying him in this, he will grant grace to help in time of need, if they humble themselves before him.

So you see, it is not such a paradox as you thought.

11

News Item1/20/13 6:38 PM
Be warned  Find all comments by Be warned
Dubious authority figure?!!

As I said you are w/o hope! Go wallow in your darkness.

10

News Item1/20/13 6:34 PM
Pastor Mike  Find all comments by Pastor Mike
John UK wrote:
Therefore it is not for others to change your mind, but for you to repent. And you are incapable of doing that without the Spirit of God working in your heart; for it is only him that can change your mind on these crucial and eternal issues.
But also know that the Bible says that "God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent", and that includes your very self. So please know that God holds you alone responsible for what you have just read.
That's as ridiculous (and malevolent) as me saying, "I expect my pet dog to earn himself a living even though I don't ever give him the opportunity to earn himself a living." And considering the doctrine of Hell, "until my dog starts providing for himself, I'm going to beat him every night when I get home from work."

Be warned wrote:
Of what value is truth to an atheist, when he rejects the very person who said he is the truth?!
Of what value is truth to the Christian when he rejects the necessity of evidence and contents himself with the words of a dubious authority figure?
9

News Item1/20/13 6:16 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Pastor Mike wrote:
I carefully read all the messages on these discussions with special attention to those directed to me. I'm fully prepared for the possibility that somebody may prove me wrong. As a matter of fact, I'd much rather have somebody change my mind than I would change the mind of somebody else, because the man who has his mind changed from error to truth is the one who benefits.
Mike, I'm told that the greek word for "change of mind" in our English Bible is translated "repent". Therefore it is not for others to change your mind, but for you to repent. And you are incapable of doing that without the Spirit of God working in your heart; for it is only him that can change your mind on these crucial and eternal issues.

But also know that the Bible says that "God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent", and that includes your very self. So please know that God holds you alone responsible for what you have just read.

8

News Item1/20/13 6:00 PM
Be warned  Find all comments by Be warned
Truth?! Of what value is truth to an atheist, when he rejects the very person who said he is the truth?!

Clearly you've determined that he was a liar, once again demonstrating that you are beyond the pale.

7

News Item1/20/13 5:47 PM
Pastor Mike  Find all comments by Pastor Mike
Be warned wrote:
PM is only here to undermine the faith of others. Why would you have any sympathy for someone prepared to do the devils work?
I carefully read all the messages on these discussions with special attention to those directed to me. I'm fully prepared for the possibility that somebody may prove me wrong. As a matter of fact, I'd much rather have somebody change my mind than I would change the mind of somebody else, because the man who has his mind changed from error to truth is the one who benefits.
6
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