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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/29/2014
Choice News MONDAY, NOV 19, 2012  |  221 comments  |  1 commentary
Christian Convert from Islam Beheaded in Somalia

Islamic extremists from Somalia’s rebel Al-Shabaab militants on Friday (Nov. 16) killed a Christian in Somalia’s coastal city of Barawa, accusing him of being a spy and leaving Islam, Christian and Muslim witnesses said.

The extremists beheaded 25-year-old Farhan Haji Mose after monitoring his movements for six months, Christian sources said. Mose drew suspicion when he returned to Barawa, in Somalia’s Lower Shebelle Region, in December 2011 after spending time in Kenya, underground Christians in Somalia told Morning Star News. ...


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Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 221 user comment(s)
News Item11/25/12 7:42 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
1)Mike, I do not believe that our Lord ever "makes" anyone believe. I do not know anyone who ever said that. That also is by permission of The Other Theology.
As for your example, sure I believe what you say regarding that, no problem.
2)But then you have a difficulty. If Christ was weeping over Jerusalem because of their unbelief, do you now say that he is continually weeping over this world because of its unbelief? I mean, "continually"!
3)Was Christ weeping over the unbelief of the Pharisees, or was he giving them stern rebuke and telling them they were hellbound?
4)What does Christ think of unbelievers? Is he "angry with the wicked every day"?
---
1) Me neither, but when you combine preselection with the idea that faith is given to believe which cannot be resisted, then yes, you are made to believe.

2) What I said was, Jesus was sad at Jerusalem's unbelief. True or not? If true, why sad? Surely he knew he did not give them faith to believe, right? What do you think of his response? There is no difficulty in the one point bro. The verses are clear, methinks.

3) Stern rebuke.

4) If they were created to be unbelievers, I should think he wouldn't pay them any mind for fulfilling the design.

161

News Item11/25/12 7:28 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:

But, there will be no sinners found in heaven; absolutely none.
Oh, it is called irrestible grace.
Aye, the chief of sinners will never sin again, once the transition takes place. Phew! What a relief! And deep joy!

And actually it is called irresistible grace, Frank.

Alas, gotta turn in, and by God's grace I may have yet another day tomorrow in which to praise him for his great love wherewith he hath loved us.

Watch and pray!

160

News Item11/25/12 6:52 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
A good point about The Theology is that it allows for unborn or infants to be found in heaven, even without a response from them.

But, there will be no sinners found in heaven; absolutely none.

Oh, it is called irrestible grace.

159

News Item11/25/12 6:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Christ powerless?
You give picks approved by permission of the Theology, bro. Can you not see that? The Bible says Jesus reflected sadly over Jerusalem, because, though he would have gathered its children together, "ye would not."(Mt 23:37) Clearly fitting neither of your two choices. Was he not able to make
Jerusalem believe? Sure, he could have, but he did not make them, because that is not his way.
Mike, I do not believe that our Lord ever "makes" anyone believe. I do not know anyone who ever said that. That also is by permission of The Other Theology.

As for your example, sure I believe what you say regarding that, no problem.

But then you have a difficulty. If Christ was weeping over Jerusalem because of their unbelief, do you now say that he is continually weeping over this world because of its unbelief? I mean, "continually"!

Was Christ weeping over the unbelief of the Pharisees, or was he giving them stern rebuke and telling them they were hellbound?

What does Christ think of unbelievers? Is he "angry with the wicked every day"?

A good point about The Theology is that it allows for unborn or infants to be found in heaven, even without a response from them.

158

News Item11/25/12 6:13 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Romans 9:[10] And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; [11] (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth [12] It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. [13] As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. [16] So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. [18] Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. [19] Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

[20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

[21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [22] [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Also, Romans 11:7-15

157

News Item11/25/12 5:40 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Either that, Mike, or you have to imagine God sitting up in the heavens, weeping over sinners who refuse the gospel, hoping against hope that someone will accept Christ as their Saviour, but powerless to do anything to help them, coz he's done all that he can, and now it is all up to the sinner.
The only other alternative is that God loves all men, but has chosen to save only some, and does this effectually.
Take your pick.
Christ powerless?
You give picks approved by permission of the Theology, bro. Can you not see that? The Bible says Jesus reflected sadly over Jerusalem, because, though he would have gathered its children together, "ye would not."(Mt 23:37) Clearly fitting neither of your two choices. Was he not able to make
Jerusalem believe? Sure, he could have, but he did not make them, because that is not his way. So now you have two choices:

1) He wasn't really saddened by Jerusalem's response to him, and meant to say "Since I did not give you the faith to believe, ye COULD not."

2) Believe what it says, they "would not" meaning they willed not to believe, revealed in Jesus' expressed sentiment that had they, he WOULD have gathered them as a hen gathers her chicks.

156

News Item11/25/12 12:55 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
I gotta go. Bible Teaching in 35 minutes at 6.30pm. Back later brethren and elders.
155

News Item11/25/12 12:49 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
You missed this?:
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 KJV
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
2. I realise there are some who believe that after God created the world, he left it to itself, and dealt with it according to what transpired. But that is simply wrong, and denies his sovereignty over events.
3. Old Faro had no choice, in God's economy, although played out in time he was responsible for all his actions. But God raised Faro up to fulfil his plan.
4. Good discussion.
Frank:
IMHO your post is absolutely spot on!
So yes, I am correct.
Well, since I am only 5'4", I probably can't call you little brother, so I will resort to "younger" brother. Yes, election is true.
154

News Item11/25/12 12:44 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Dwayne wrote:
John
1. I didn't relize we were discussing Israel.
2. What's wrong with God knowing...
You missed this?:
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 KJV
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

2. I realise there are some who believe that after God created the world, he left it to itself, and dealt with it according to what transpired. But that is simply wrong, and denies his sovereignty over events.

3. Old Faro had no choice, in God's economy, although played out in time he was responsible for all his actions. But God raised Faro up to fulfil his plan.

4. Good discussion.

Frank:
IMHO your post is absolutely spot on!

So yes, I am correct.

153

News Item11/25/12 12:15 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Scripture does in fact teach election whether we understand the concept or not. God decrees and predestines something and then that something “must” come to past. I don’t understand why I was chosen, but that doesn’t negate the fact that I was chosen and scripture teaches that concept clearly in many places. Now where the confusion comes in is when we see its application. We witness and someone responds and then we suddenly want to say that the person had something to do with the decision; usually in the form of some inherent goodness. That is very tempting since that is what we can see and hear. Or we use our human reasoning to say election is unfair. Election says God decreed and predestined this person’s decision, but His decision is simply being played out in our time space; otherwise the body of Christ would not exist. The problem with salvation via foreknowledge is it always leads to a man-centered gospel. Man had some responsibility, so man has further responsibilities to maintain his standing with God. That often leads to the heretical concept of Open Theism or salvation by works. I personally witness as if the person has the ability to make a decision, but understand “whatever” decision they make was predetermined. That is God centered and not man centered.
152

News Item11/25/12 12:09 PM
Dwayne  Find all comments by Dwayne
John
1. I didn't relize we were discussing Israel.
2. What's wrong with God knowing that their would be a census and knowing that Jesus would be born in Bethleham and the prophesying it?
Lets say for example pharouh.
God says he hardened his heart when pharouh said the people could go. But God wanting to institute the Passover hardened his heart.
Now think about this...
After the tenth plague where pharouh loses his son he says okay leave! But after they have left he still chases after them. So what I think is that pharouh would have chased them after the first plague if he had let them go. I say God knew this and used it to fulfill his plan. Therefore since he knew pharouh would harden his heart it does not make him unjust to harden pharouhs heart.
Does that make sense haha
Hard to explain when your not in person! And I'm pretty sure I spelt pharouh wrong:/

Ps. Want to make sure you and anyone else to know that my intention is to discuss with people and not to fight.

151

News Item11/25/12 12:04 PM
F.bh  Find all comments by F.bh
Dwayne wrote:
If you think I'm serving a man made God
The Calvinist seeks to give all the glory to God. Therefore he recognises God's sovereignty over all His creation. Also he recognises total depravity and the dominion and power of sin over man. Where "dead in sin" means dead in sin. No spiritual discernment in the natural pre-saved state means NO spiritual discerning by sinners at that time, as Bible teaches.

Alternatively what you are saying is to bring some of the glory into human reach, to the detriment of God's sovereignty in election and salvation.

Do you really believe in a god that needs human help to achieve anything?

You are advocating a variation of the old Roman Catholic road of salvation by works. Their god cannot save without their human effort. Thats plain old idolatry their god is their graven image of him.

150

News Item11/25/12 11:47 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Dwayne wrote:
Christopher what you said is perfectly right. God chose those who he knew would choose him. Foreknowledge means foreknowledge. The Calvinist has to do away with the word foreknowledge or change its meaning otherwise their theory doesn't make sense, I'm not sure why the Calvinist has such a hard time admitting that God would know who would follow him and choose those. It makes perfect sense. I don't know about you but I am not a robot. I am a human being created in Gods image and very much capable of making choices.
John what dictionary are you reading anyway that says foreknowledge means "fore loved"
Dwayne, when it comes to prophecy, let us look at for example, the place of Jesus birth. It was prophesied to be Bethlehem. Now you tell me, was Jesus born in Bethlehem and God looked forward in time and noticed that, so gave his prophets the information; or, did God decide in eternity to have Jesus born in Bethlehem, and arranged all things for it to come to pass, thus telling his prophets what his will was?

As for "knowing", it is an ancient word for most intimate relationships, which I will not spell out for you. I noticed you ignore the OT reason given by God for why he chose Israel.

149

News Item11/25/12 11:44 AM
Dwayne  Find all comments by Dwayne
Fbh
It is never my intention to demote God.
Hebrews 3

15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
So some in the past hardened their hearts and we are told not to.
Very clearly there is a choice to be made. Some will choose to obey him and many will harden their hearts.

If you think I'm serving a man made God by the way I think then tell me what you think I should think. Obviously you disagree so you must have a different understanding of it however limited it is.

148

News Item11/25/12 11:17 AM
F.bh  Find all comments by F.bh
Dwayne wrote:
God chose those who he knew would choose him. Foreknowledge means foreknowledge. The Calvinist has to do away with the word foreknowledge or change its meaning otherwise their theory doesn't make sense, I'm not sure why the Calvinist has such a hard time admitting that God would know who would follow him and choose those. It makes perfect sense. I don't know about you but I am not a robot. I am a human being created in Gods image and very much capable of making choices
What you have done here is brought election and foreknowing into human limited understanding.

What in effect you are doing here is demoting god and promoting the mortal sinner.

Thus your god is a man made idol.

Divine is different.
Sin holds dominion over human understanding.

God has complete sovereignty over His creation.

147

News Item11/25/12 10:59 AM
Dwayne  Find all comments by Dwayne
Christopher what you said is perfectly right. God chose those who he knew would choose him. Foreknowledge means foreknowledge. The Calvinist has to do away with the word foreknowledge or change its meaning otherwise their theory doesn't make sense, I'm not sure why the Calvinist has such a hard time admitting that God would know who would follow him and choose those. It makes perfect sense. I don't know about you but I am not a robot. I am a human being created in Gods image and very much capable of making choices.

John what dictionary are you reading anyway that says foreknowledge means "fore loved"

146

News Item11/25/12 10:53 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Christopher000 wrote:
I totally understand that God chooses us but the more I consider it, the more confused I become about how I didn't also choose to believe in and follw Him. That's the only way I can comprehend predestination as being fair...He knew that we would accept His invite.
Perhaps your answer lies in what caused you to turn from the path of destruction you were on.

Did you just wake up one morning and suddenly decide to set a new course for your life?

Or is is possible that God permitted something to shake you up so you would turn away from destruction and toward Him?

Specifics of what led up to your real conversion are not necessary to post but consider Saul's (Paul) persecution of the early church before Damascus Road. Was Saul forced to turn to God or did he turn willingly? (see 1 Timothy 1:12-17)

145

News Item11/25/12 9:14 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
We need change John 3:16 to fit: For God so loved the pre-selected....
Either that, Mike, or you have to imagine God sitting up in the heavens, weeping over sinners who refuse the gospel, hoping against hope that someone will accept Christ as their Saviour, but powerless to do anything to help them, coz he's done all that he can, and now it is all up to the sinner.

The only other alternative is that God loves all men, but has chosen to save only some, and does this effectually.

Take your pick.

144

News Item11/25/12 8:56 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
You make an excellent point, and I fully agree with you. God's great love is truly great and powerful. To imagine him sitting in the heavens "hoping" to see men change is not seeing him aright.
We need change John 3:16 to fit: For God so loved the pre-selected....
143

News Item11/25/12 8:25 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
As a follow up, Christopher, if you ever want to hear some sermons on 1 Peter 1:2, which talks about "elect according to the foreknowledge of God", there are quite a number here on SA, and I have no doubt that both views will be represented. Have a look here
142
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