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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/31/2014
TUESDAY, FEB 4, 2014  |  85 comments
Church of England waters down baptism

The Anglican Church has introduced a revised version of its baptismal service that replaces language deemed “inaccessible” to unchurched people. In particular, the new ceremony removes promises that parents and godparents had previously made to repent of sin and to “reject the devil.” The archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, supports the change.

Even though attendance at British Anglican congregations is generally quite low, many unchurched parents still wish to have newborns baptized. “In some instances,” the Anglican Liturgy Commission notes, “there are few people present [at a baptism] who have any real understanding of the Church’s language and symbolism.”

The current liturgy, which dates to 1998, has Anglican ministers ask parents if they “repent of the sins that separate us from God,” as well as renounce the devil and “rebellion against God.” The new text simply asks them, on behalf of ...


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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 85 user comment(s)
News Item2/5/14 5:09 PM
Duh  Find all comments by Duh
John for JESUS wrote:
Unprofitable Servant...
Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (Luke 3:7 NKJV)
These multitude consisted of Pharisees who were not true believers in God.
And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. (Luke 1:16 NKJV)
I always considered the people believers in God, so there may be some truth to what you said about them not being believers. Interesting! I never thought of it that way.
A chink of light at last!

The vast majority of the Jews were religionist (after all this was what they were taught by the Pharisees and Saducees) not true believers. Hence the call to repentance and the forgiveness of sins!

45

News Item2/5/14 3:22 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant...

Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (Luke 3:7 NKJV)

These multitude consisted of Pharisees who were not true believers in God.

And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. (Luke 1:16 NKJV)

I always considered the people believers in God, so there may be some truth to what you said about them not being believers. Interesting! I never thought of it that way.

44

News Item2/5/14 1:39 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant...
I grew up in Milwaukee. Where I'm trying to head is, it is not likely that unbelievers would rush out to be baptized by John in the kind of numbers that the Bible states. Also,the Bible says the people thought he was a prophet. Would unbelievers think that? If unbelievers were coming to be saved, then as soon as they were saved there would be no reason for them to be baptized, if what you say is right, because believers didn't get baptized.
43

News Item2/5/14 12:53 PM
CAB  Find all comments by CAB
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
John baptized believers into the Jewish religion.
Not correct. John the Baptist came to prepare the way for Jesus, drew huge crowds by his preaching, and preached to the Jews, who were already Jewish. The pharisees were coming to him to be baptized, were already Jewish.

He preached repentance and he preached Jesus as the promised Messiah. Once Jesus came ministering then John faded away.

John the Baptist was the one to announce Jesus, to prepare the way for him. He wasn't converting people to Judaism. That doesn't happen anyway.

Jesus said John the Baptist was the greatest man to ever live, and that he was Elias (if we can receive it). Elijah was taken bodily to Heaven without dying, so the "appointed once to die and then the judgment" would still apply if John the Baptist were sent back to earth on another mission. Bible says he was full of the Holy Ghost from when he was in the womb.

Please don't accuse me of believing in reincarnation, because I do not.

42

News Item2/5/14 12:29 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John for JESUS wrote:
Unprofitable Servant...
Then do you believe unbelievers in God were the ones coming to John to be baptized for the remission of sins? Why would they do that if they didn't believe in God?
That weather was so crazy, we had a whole two inches of snow and it stuck! Lol. I'm teasing, I grew up in Wisconsin so I'm more used to it then some of the people here. I didn't go in to work the first day because of traffic jams, I couldn't. The second day the shop was closed. I had to pick up one of my sons from McDonald's because the bus couldn't make it to the house! The 15 minute bus ride ended up taking 3 hours.
Thanks, J4J, not sure where we are heading here, but yes I believe that unbelievers were coming to John, I believe that unbelievers come to Christ for salvation. I believe we should give out the gospel and tell the lost their need of Christ like brother John UK is doing. I hand out tracts, I knock on doors, I have Mark 8:36 posted in my cubicle. Sorry, not understanding nature of your question. Remember, in the days in which our Lord walked upon the earth, He said, salvation is of the Jews. see Ephesians 2:12-13

My wife is from Elkhorn.

41

News Item2/5/14 11:59 AM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant...
Then do you believe unbelievers in God were the ones coming to John to be baptized for the remission of sins? Why would they do that if they didn't believe in God?

That weather was so crazy, we had a whole two inches of snow and it stuck! Lol. I'm teasing, I grew up in Wisconsin so I'm more used to it then some of the people here. I didn't go in to work the first day because of traffic jams, I couldn't. The second day the shop was closed. I had to pick up one of my sons from McDonald's because the bus couldn't make it to the house! The 15 minute bus ride ended up taking 3 hours.

40

News Item2/5/14 11:42 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John for JESUS wrote:
Unprofitable Servant...
If they were believers, they were already Jewish. They weren't being converted to Judiasm...
Thanks J4J, John the baptist started his ministry BEFORE Jesus began to do and to teach. When we see people coming to him to be baptized it was before the ministry of Jesus. So, they could not have been New Testament believers. Jesus did not need to be a believer, yes He was doing His Father's will. The soldiers who asked what should they do were not Jewish. The is a difference between the baptism of John and believers baptism see Acts 19:1-5

BTW, hope you did not stuck in a long commute last week and were able to get home okay.

39

News Item2/5/14 11:14 AM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant...
If they were believers, they were already Jewish. They weren't being converted to Judiasm. They were supposed to be believers who were getting baptized for the remission of sins. Seeing that God commanded believers to be baptized, don't you think Jesus would have to also? In order to remain obedient towards the Father. For righteousness sake. If Jesus did not, He would have been unrighteous for not obeying God and therefore He wouldn't have been able to make those on Him righteous.
38

News Item2/5/14 9:43 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John for JESUS wrote:
Do you think that John's baptism was for unbelievers?
I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” (Mark 1:8 NKJV)
Was he telling unbelievers that they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit?
John baptized believers into the Jewish religion. You need to remember our Lord and John the baptist operated under the Old Testament era. The recipients of John's baptism were not necessarily ones who would become the recipients of Christ's baptism.(although many probably were) It would be like Bill Gates saying I will give you software but IBM will produce the hardware on which it runs. He was not stating that those who received his baptism of water would also be recipients of Jesus baptism of the Spirit, just that Jesus would baptize with the Spirit.
37

News Item2/5/14 9:15 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
J4J, the Bible teaches Christ was baptized to fulfill all righteousness as our example. He is not a believer but a Savior and believers are not commanded to John's baptism.
Do you think that John's baptism was for unbelievers?

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” (Mark 1:8 NKJV)

Was he telling unbelievers that they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit?

36

News Item2/5/14 8:15 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
J4J, the Bible teaches Christ was baptized to fulfill all righteousness as our example. He is not a believer but a Savior and believers are not commanded to John's baptism.
35

News Item2/4/14 7:09 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Duh wrote:
How could it have been required of Jesus 'as a Jew' when he himself was not a sinner? What sins did he have that needed remission?
If God commanded all believers to be baptized by John then it would have been required by Jesus also. He was not a sinner, but had He not obeyed God He would have been. Don't you think so?
34

News Item2/4/14 6:51 PM
Duh  Find all comments by Duh
John for JESUS wrote:
Since God commanded the Jews to be baptized for the remission of sins, wasn't it required by Jesus to obey Him in order to remain righteous? If Jesus didn't obey God, wouldn't that have been a sin? Therefore making Jesus unrighteous.
How could it have been required of Jesus 'as a Jew' when he himself was not a sinner? What sins did he have that needed remission?
33

News Item2/4/14 6:41 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
All 5 points wrote:
Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
If Jesus baptism was not unto repentance How did it fulfill all righteousness?
Since God commanded the Jews to be baptized for the remission of sins, wasn't it required by Jesus to obey Him in order to remain righteous? If Jesus didn't obey God, wouldn't that have been a sin? Therefore making Jesus unrighteous.
32

News Item2/4/14 6:17 PM
Duh  Find all comments by Duh
Biblical Christian wrote:
Seems like some who hold to "infant baptism" still have the rags of Romanism clinging to them and they have never read the book of Galations or don't comprehend it
They are specially trained from a very young age NOT to understand the NT, because they insist that they must have the veil of Moses over their eyes, in case the light of the NT should break through and blind them!
31

News Item2/4/14 6:01 PM
Biblical Christian  Find all comments by Biblical Christian
Duh wrote:
No Baptism, No infant baptism. But if you're a child of the fictitious Abrahamic covenant of grace then you can see it everywhere!
Jessica Dawson Bottom line, only those in Christ (viz. Believers) should be baptized!
Seems like some who hold to "infant baptism" still have the rags of Romanism clinging to them and they have never read the book of Galations or don't comprehend it
30

News Item2/4/14 5:42 PM
Duh  Find all comments by Duh
All 5 points wrote:
If Jesus baptism was not unto repentance How did it fulfill all righteousness?
What righteousness, you unthinking person?

He took the place of sinners as our representative and associates himself completely with us. So he associates himself with our need to repent in John's baptism and then goes on to suffer on our behalf. That is the righteousness he fulfilled.

29

News Item2/4/14 5:21 PM
All 5 points  Find all comments by All 5 points
Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

If Jesus baptism was not unto repentance How did it fulfill all righteousness?

28

News Item2/4/14 5:21 PM
Duh  Find all comments by Duh
Biblical Christian wrote:
No infant baptism in those verses....
No Baptism, No infant baptism. But if you're a child of the fictitious Abrahamic covenant of grace then you can see it everywhere!

Jessica Dawson Bottom line, only those in Christ (viz. Believers) should be baptized!

27

News Item2/4/14 5:02 PM
Jessica Dawson | Canada  Find all comments by Jessica Dawson
Jesus was baptized:

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him."

Matthew 3:13 KJV

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"

~ Matthew 3:16 KJV

The reasons we should be baptized:

"And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

~ Acts 19:3-5 KJV

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

~ Acts 22:16 KJV

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

~ Romans 6:3 KJV

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

~ 1 Peter 2:24 KJV

When we are one with Jesus in His death (through baptism), we are one with Him in His Resurrection. ~ shalom

26
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