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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  12/27/2014
SUNDAY, OCT 20, 2013  |  147 comments
John MacArthur vs. Mark Driscoll: Megachurch pastors clash over charismatic theology
Megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll claims that his books were confiscated at the Strange Fire conference put on by another megachurch pastor John MacArthur.

Driscoll, who pastors Mars Hill Church in Seattle, is a reformed pastor who is more open to charismatic theology. MacArthur, who pastors Grace Community Church in southern California and has been named in the top 10 most influential pastors in a survey by LifeWay Research, has long criticized the charismatic movement, calling it “a farce and a scam.” ...


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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 147 user comment(s)
News Item10/23/13 4:03 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jc, I'm still waiting to discuss the "garbage" you came across according to the Johnny Mac's Lordship Salvation

You've even been given a link by Jim (Links) Lincoln to another article on this, but I doubt you'll ever read it. You just come out with "it's garbage" and "the man's a wolf". I'm sorry, but you have to do far better than that.

107

News Item10/23/13 2:19 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
If a person is in a continual state of sin, who is the Lord of his life? Not Christ.
Gil Rugh said or, wrote:
The Apostle Peter's first sermon on Pentecost boldly declared Jesus to be both Lord and Christ. The Spirit of God working through the Word preached began bringing the hearts of the hearers under conviction of their sins. Peter taught that the lifesaving response to this conviction of sin would be to repent and then give public testimony of that repentance by being baptized. There can be no salvation without repentance from sin. Genuine repentance then results in the forgiveness of sins and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The results of genuine repentance will be evident in both character and conduct of the believer who experiences the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. Those who are born again are called to be lights carrying the Gospel to the world, without becoming like the world.

from, The Spirit Convicts Through the Word

Or a file to look at, Lordship Salvation: What Must a True Believer Believe

106

News Item10/23/13 12:59 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jc, hearsay and misquotes are of no use in evaluating heretics. What we need is direct quotes from Johnny Mac himself, thus:

"There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ’s death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly."

"What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of “easybelievism”? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel."

from Lordship Salvation Distinctives

Now then Jc, please point out (from the article) where Johnny Mac is in "error", where it is "garbage", and we can discuss it.
Thank you.

105

News Item10/23/13 6:06 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jc wrote:
I belive I know what B.h.k is saying "lordship salvation garbage"
I don't think you do.

"There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ’s death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly."

"What, then, are the distinctives of lordship salvation? What does Scripture teach that is embraced by those who affirm lordship salvation but rejected by proponents of “easybelievism”? The following are nine distinctives of a biblical understanding of salvation and the gospel."
from Lordship Salvation Distinctives

Now then Jc, please point out (from the article) where Johnny Mac is in "error", where it is "garbage", and we can discuss it.

104

News Item10/23/13 1:28 AM
Gs Texas | Texas  Find all comments by Gs Texas
Repentance isn't works, its simply realizing that you've sinned before a Holy God, your sin is the reason Jesus Christ was crucified and more importantly, repentance is an utter abhorrence of sin and the way we have failed a Holy God, and an intense desire to turn away from said lifestyle, which only comes from faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. I don't believe man would come unto this conviction on his own, as he is too wicked, but from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. (John 3:19-20)

2 Corinthians 7:10 " For godly sorrow worketh REPENTANCE TO SALVATION not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

Its clear as day if you'll just look.

103

News Item10/22/13 11:53 PM
Jc  Find all comments by Jc
Cv.
I'm with you on this matter of the simplicity that is in Christ. I don't understand why anybody would want to add anything to the simple gospel and make it so hard and complex. Almost like they wanna make it a riddle or something. I'm sorry but if someone can't even agree with us about the first step of becoming a born again believer, I just don't know what else I can do but pray for those. God bless and hope to see more of you shared comments
102

News Item10/22/13 8:07 PM
Jc  Find all comments by Jc
I belive I know what B.h.k is saying "lordship salvation garbage"
Because some do use lordship salvation to think of them selves better than some others, not in the scenes it was taking as saying that it is garbage but how some people use it to boast themselves. I agree with this person we are saved by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast. And yes I agree with B.h.k about the view on J.M. About some of his teachings on salvation. They're off by a long.
101

News Item10/22/13 7:38 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
B.h.k wrote:
Yes! Lordship salvation garbage...!
(Luke 2:11 KJV)"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a SAVIOR, WHICH IS Christ the LORD."

In Peter's salvation message in Acts 2 (v36)

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both LORD and CHRIST."

in Acts 16 speaking of Lydia (v14)

"....whose heart the LORD opened.."

later in the chapter Paul and Silas tell the jailier(v31)

"Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and you will be saved"

and although more verses could be sighted, we also see in Romans 10:9,13

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved

So, maybe you could clarify your position in light of the obvious teaching of Scriptures.

Also, see Acts26:17-20 in the area of turning from sin. Clearly the apostle was instructed and preached turning from sin, also note Paul stopped a sacrifice to him admonishing the heathen to turn from their wickedness (Acts 14:17 ...and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God)

100

News Item10/22/13 6:56 PM
Jc  Find all comments by Jc
John uk
Where do you get off assuming that my belief is all mental assent? Never did I mention of just believing in a man named jesus. Im refering to the "Lord Jesus Christ". Also where do y'all get off throwing my comments which were scriptual under the bus and refer to me as a easy-believism Christian. Also where do you get off assuming that I'm reading out of a niv bible? I'm strictly KJV and would never use that garbage. I believe the plan of salvation was, even though my own quick words were cut right to the chase. The whole point of the comment was a simple reminder that it's grace by faith alone! Not any works! Belive in thy heart, not in your head.
99

News Item10/22/13 5:49 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Scripture uses the term Lord for our Savior something like 92 times compared to only twice where Savior is used alone. (this is from memory, so I may be off somewhat) Now, sheep don't choose their shepherds and adopted children don't choose their parent. If you belong to the Lord, it was His doing, but if you belong to Him, then you are in fact following Him or else you don't belong to Him. Christ said His sheep follow Him and another they will not follow.

If you are not a bond-servant or slave of our Lord, then you aren't serving Him according to scripture. Notice the following and or course there are more:
Luke 1:38
Luke 2:29
Romans 1:1
Galatians 1:10
Ph 1:1
James 1:1

If you are not serving Him as a slave, according to scripture, then you are not following Him.

If you are not following Him, then you are not one of His disciples.

If you are not His disciple, then you are not one of His sheep.

If you are not one of His sheep, then He is not your Shepherd.

If He is not your Shepherd, then ....

John UK

98

News Item10/22/13 3:12 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
CV wrote:
John I am one of those easy believists.
No you are not CV.

Let us go through this, eh?

How easy is it for a sinner to believe on Christ and be saved?

With man it is impossible. He cannot simply believe, because spiritually he is a dead man, he cannot respond to the gospel, he cannot hear Christ calling him, he cannot see the kingdom, he is a corpse. And you believe this.

If it is impossible for him, how then shall he believe and be saved?

Oh boy! How about a spiritual resurrection, where the corpse comes alive. Yep, the same power that raised our beloved Saviour from the dead, also raises the sinner from death such that he is alive in the spiritual sense.

Oh boy! What a shock to the system! To see the city of destruction and now desiring to flee from it. How shall I flee? To where? What can I do? I'm a hellbound sinner, and there is nothing I can do about it. Woe unto me, for I am undone, I am under God's wrath, doomed, DOOMED, DOOMED and DAMNED.

[p.s. compare this with the altar call easy-believism]

Ah but I also now see a Cross, a Saviour, one who loves me and is willing to save all that come unto him in faith, repenting of sin and turning away from it. Transformed by GRACE! Oh yeah!

97

News Item10/22/13 2:33 PM
CV  Find all comments by CV
John UK wrote:
The easy-believist ..has made up an easy-religion
John I am one of those easy believists.
We are saved by grace and kept by grace alone. Not even our obedience accounts for anything.

True regeneration produces a contrite and repentant heart. It brings about obedience out of love and longing for Him. But God works out His plans in the lives of His elect in His own time

Jc wrote:
Yes we should live for jesus by living right but if someone still struggling with a piticular sin ..doesn't make them not saved
Salvation is easy believism- all of grace. Who are we to say they are getting away easy? Are we envious that they did not earn a full days rightiousness as us? Mat20 My dear brother,Rom14:4

The problem we have is to tell these ones apart from those who claim Christ but cling to darkness. Or those who manifest all the "christian" witness but are lost in their damnable heresies. There are those who are really evil but manifest "christian" light for the purpose of bringing in damnable heresies.
It's for these that we contend against easy believism Acts20:27-30, not easy believism itself. For salvation is of the Lord- all of grace

96

News Item10/22/13 2:03 PM
Gs Texas | Texas  Find all comments by Gs Texas
Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.”

Wow, what a spiritual person! I'm sure he would get a lot of amens if he said this in a modern day apostate church. He believes in Jesus Christ so he must be saved right? Guess who said it:

Adolf Hitler.

95

News Item10/22/13 1:26 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Gs Texas wrote:
All the more reason I use the KJV.
Amen brother, and Amen again.

Jc
On the basis of these texts you have quoted, what do you tell a sinner he must do to be saved?

Romans 10:9-10 KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

94

News Item10/22/13 1:24 PM
Gs Texas | Texas  Find all comments by Gs Texas
All the more reason I use the KJV.
93

News Item10/22/13 1:21 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Gs Texas wrote:
Why are you basing doctrine on one verse, and ignoring others?
Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith into them, they that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE."
Why didn't he say he called them to believe on him if that's all that's necessary? You need to take Paul's advice in 2 Timothy 2:15 and "rightly divide the word of truth.
Ah, Gs, you have to feel sorry for the MV reader, for there is no repentance in that verse:

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” NIV

However it should read, as you quoted:

Mark 2:17 KJV
17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

92

News Item10/22/13 1:10 PM
Gs Texas | Texas  Find all comments by Gs Texas
Why are you basing doctrine on one verse, and ignoring others?

Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith into them, they that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE."

Why didn't he say he called them to believe on him if that's all that's necessary? You need to take Paul's advice in 2 Timothy 2:15 and "rightly divide the word of truth.

91

News Item10/22/13 1:09 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jc wrote:
Honestly it sounds like a lot of y'all want claim to have your trust and faith in Christ but are still trying to earn your way to eternal salvation.
Okay, post up a quote where you get that from, and I will explain why you are wrong about that.
90

News Item10/22/13 1:03 PM
Jc  Find all comments by Jc
Honestly it sounds like a lot of y'all want claim to have your trust and faith in Christ but are still trying to earn your way to eternal salvation. I might be mistaking but it's what it sounds like. If so that's called Calvinism which is nothing but a self-righteous belief and doctrine that should be repented of immediately.
89

News Item10/22/13 12:57 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Jc wrote:
Better yet explain verses 10-13 in the book of Romans. It's as cut and dry as can be in order to be saved.
In your example, there was no calling upon Christ for salvation.

It was mere mental assent.

Observe please:

Romans 10:12-13 KJV
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What does this mean?

Observe the publican, what did he pray? "God be merciful to me, a sinner." The word "merciful" means "be propitious", in other words he was looking for a blood sacrifice where God's wrath was propitiated.

The easy-believer merely makes a formula prayer and then claims salvation and says "I've now been born again."

But the new birth does not work like that.

However, when the easy-believer continues to attend the easy-believer church, the next thing that happens is that he is told to stop doing this, start doing that, wear certain clothes, take your hat off on entering the building, and so on. And he says, "I only wanted to be saved from hell - what is all this you're loading on me!!"

88
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