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MONDAY, APRIL 21, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
Choice News SUNDAY, JUL 14, 2013| 178 comments| 6 commentaries
Zimmerman found not guilty of murder in Trayvon Martin's death
When he learned his fate, a quiet Zimmerman had little visible reaction. His face was mostly expressionless. He turned and shook the hand of one of his attorneys before sitting back down, only openly smiling after court was adjourned. His parents, Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, were seated nearby, but Martin's parents were not in the courtroom.

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara said a short time later that he and his team were "ecstatic" with the verdict.

"George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self defense," O'Mara said.

The response from NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous struck a far different tone. ...


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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 178 user comment(s)
News Item7/18/13 2:52 PM
Job  Find all comments by Job
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
no need to ask God to do something He already plans to do
I thought we'd dealt with sovereignty-responsibility!!

WCF.3/1 God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[a] yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[b] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[c]
a. Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. • b. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. • c. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28.

WCF 5/2 Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly,[a] yet by the same providence he ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.[b]
a. Acts 2:23. • b. Gen 8:22; Exod 21:13 with Deut 19:5; 1 Kings 22:28, 34; Isa 10:6-7; Jer 31:35.

And 5/4 also...

138

News Item7/18/13 1:18 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Job wrote:
1. Very *subtle* John. (Gen 3:1)
2. Now why don't you confess and repent of your sin against God.
3. God wrote the Scriptures.
4. There is NO "nonsense" in God's Word the Bible.
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1. You think I'm subtle? As In Gen 3:1
Genesis 3:1 KJV
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2. Ahem, which sin would that be now?

3. The only scriptures God wrote are found in Exodus 20 and repeated in Deuteronomy.

4. Sure there is. When Peter said, "Not so Lord!" Jesus had to say to him, "Get thee behind me, Satan!"

Now people are still saying, "Not so, Lord! We will not have you dying on a cross to bear away sins vicariously. We will NOT have it!"

Man, when Peter later played the hypocrite after Pentecost, God recorded the dreadful event in scripture so that we should learn what hypocrisy is like.

137

News Item7/18/13 1:12 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
I do not think your understanding of God's overall sovereignty includes a script being played out in which God's wrath is kindled against Job's three friends who were doing and saying just exactly what God wanted them to do and say.
I agree with the Belgic Confession

Article 13: The Doctrine of God's Providence

We believe that this good God, after he created all things, did not abandon them to chance or fortune but leads and governs them according to his holy will, in such a way that nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement.
Yet God is not the author of, nor can he be charged with, the sin that occurs. For his power and goodness are so great and incomprehensible that he arranges and does his work very well and justly even when the devils and wicked men act unjustly.

We do not wish to inquire with undue curiosity into what he does that surpasses human understanding and is beyond our ability to comprehend. But in all humility and reverence we adore the just judgments of God, which are hidden from us, being content to be Christ's disciples, so as to learn only what he shows us in his Word, without going beyond those limits.

This doctrine gives us unspeakable comfort

136

News Item7/18/13 1:05 PM
Job  Find all comments by Job
John UK wrote:
What does God say?
Very *subtle* John. (Gen 3:1)

Now why don't you confess and repent of your sin against God.

God wrote the Scriptures.

There is NO "nonsense" in God's Word the Bible.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

135

News Item7/18/13 1:05 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
Yet remember Job too will be and was admonished and this Book of Wisdom will conclude with God reaffirming his authority and SOVEREIGNTY over all things
Yes, thank you Steve, that is the sort of text. However, I do not think your understanding of God's overall sovereignty includes a script being played out in which God's wrath is kindled against Job's three friends who were doing and saying just exactly what God wanted them to do and say.
134

News Item7/18/13 1:00 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
ah, let us throw out some Bible verses then. II Thessalonians 3:1 is a good one, no need to ask God to do something He already plans to do. Give us this day our daily bread isn't necessary, because God does not respond to the prayers of His sheep. James shamelessly promoted the effectual fervent prayer sighting the example of Elijah, but in Job's definition of God's sovereignty, throw the verse out. How much more shall God avenge those who cry unto night and day, why did the Lord Jesus tell his disciples to do that? You have not because you ask not is a worthless admonition, because you have whether or not you ask. Take out those if we confess He will forgive, no confession is needed because God doesn't work that way because man has no responsibility. Don't forget to eliminate Nahum, because God said 100 years earlier it would be overthrown in 40 days.

Job you clearly don't understand a Biblical application of God's sovereignty or omniscience. Thus you believe in what amounts to not a belief that exalts God, but teaches fatalism.

133

News Item7/18/13 12:51 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John UK wrote:
Now if you like, I will dig out the texts where God Almighty himself tells Job's comforters that they were speaking nonsense.
And even then you will NOT be convinced.
Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Yet remember Job too will be and was admonished and this Book of Wisdom will conclude with God reaffirming his authority and SOVEREIGNTY over all things

132

News Item7/18/13 12:38 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
To continue...
Pray observe some more nonsensical statements in the Book of Job:

Job 4:7-9 KJV
7 Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.

Lack of understanding?

Telling Job he was suffering because of iniquity?

What does God say?

Job 1:1 KJV
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 KJV
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

This simple example can be multiplied many, many times. So in the future, when you read this book, please remember to keep it all in context, and not get your doctrine from isolated texts. Thank you.

Now if you like, I will dig out the texts where God Almighty himself tells Job's comforters that they were speaking nonsense.

And even then you will NOT be convinced.

131

News Item7/18/13 12:29 PM
Job  Find all comments by Job
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
God does not make empty promises.

type of fatalism.

The Bible talks about God's foreknowledge and foresight clearly is necessary to foreknowing, which you can't seem to get your head round. Your interpretation of as you call it "God's promise" seems to imply that God doesn't foreknow whats going to happen to His elect until they get to earth and then they "Do something" (Arminian) which HE then reacts to by said promise.
God is sovereign. God has foreknowledge of His elect as well as HE KNOWS and HE gives them by grace the ability to serve Him. Their subsequent service is KNOWN to God and by grace they serve. Obedience of God comes from grace and the work of the Holy Spirit. Yet with all this divine help YOU are still looking for an independent sinner with abilities beyond the foreknowledge of God. That doesn't even make sense.

It is not fatalism to trust in a sovereign God. It is faith which is the gift of God. Trust in a Sovereign God is to have that saving faith in God for life and the outcome of that life, IN Christ, together with the indwelling power and guidance of divine help the Holy Spirit. Yet again you appear to be looking for the 'independent' sinner's ability to change God's mind???

130

News Item7/18/13 11:14 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Job wrote:
Oh Dear!! Unprofitable Servant.
..."
No Job that is the same type of reasoning YOU are using. That which you properly condemn at one point you adhere to at another. God does not make empty promises.

You seem to believe in type of fatalism. (John UK keen insight) If we look at Jeremiah we see God ordained Cyrus to decree the return to Jerusalem. Ezra mentions that. In chapter 8 we see him heading out, but wait he stops and ask those to afflict themselves and pray for protection, and acknowledges God heard and answered that prayer. Why bother to go to all that trouble if God already predetermined the safety of their journey? Just celebrate and go on. Only YOU are stating that we don't believe in God's sovereignty. We do, we just don't apply it in the same circular Arminian way that you have. You put God in a box, I believe He can do exceedingly above all I can ask or think.

129

News Item7/18/13 10:47 AM
Job  Find all comments by Job
Unprofitiable Servant wrote:
God foresaw that when you heard the gospel you would believe and thus elected you to salvation. Now, which camp does that fall into?
Oh Dear!! Unprofitable Servant.
That conclusion is so unprofitable for you and everybody who would aspire to theological explanations.

God does not "foresee" that you will hear and believe - and thus respond.

God knows His Elect from the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4. And chose us IN Christ way back then, according to HIS will. V5

Therefore whether the 'elect' can hear, believe, knit or ride a bicycle is entirely irrelevant to God's will and purpose for His children. Including the length of life HE provided to them.

You really must stop flogging this self assisted salvation to the troops here.

God has providentially given man a life sufficient to 'HIS' will and purpose and thus being omniscient and foreknowing HE is fully aware of the length of said life. Thus is God sovereign in all aspects of creation! And you and John really must eject this idea that chance and fate affect life and death, and that God loses control at that point.

"Eccl 8:15 ... the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun"

128

News Item7/18/13 10:09 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
cowboy days wrote:
Because of the gun-store mentality of the US?
Viz 100's of thousands of arsenal style shops on every street corner. No wonder this convinces everybody to 'wear' a gun and shoot each other in the name of justice and protection.
Well there you go. This one case is more important because of the gun store mentality. Don't know why I didn't think of that myself.
127

News Item7/18/13 10:08 AM
Unprofitiable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitiable Servant
Job wrote:
Ah the good old sovereignty-responsibility equation..UPS below seems to assume that, - quote " but all suggest that you can hasten or extend that appointment." (Yr 1103am) - the proverbial Arminian power over God can work in terms of length of life on earth - Perhaps because you've been an extra good boy today!!
Sorry to interrupt you TM defense J4J, but giving this other thread some thought. Job seems to contend here that I and John UK are espousing some Arminian message but let us see who is really doing that. He reasons that because God knows when you will depart this life, that the promise of longer or shorter days in meaningless because God already knows whether or not you will fulfill those verses and has figured it into your allotted time. Thus, we have, because God knows what you are going to do, He basis His action on your decision(s). Who else uses the same circular reasoning.....wait, yup, here they are....God foresaw that when you heard the gospel you would believe and thus elected you to salvation. Now, which camp does that fall into?

We now return you to J4J passionate defense of Trayvon Martin and the gun slinging armed to the hilt Mike from NY

126

News Item7/18/13 9:53 AM
cowboy days  Find all comments by cowboy days
Mike wrote:
How did you become so involved with this one among the many that occur every day?
Because of the gun-store mentality of the US?

Viz 100's of thousands of arsenal style shops on every street corner. No wonder this convinces everybody to 'wear' a gun and shoot each other in the name of justice and protection.

125

News Item7/18/13 9:43 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John for JESUS wrote:
This death is the one the news article is about. I believe someone got away with murder which I am not happy about. I think I know enough of the facts to say so. You're assuming I can't think for myself and am beholden to what the libral news media is telling me to think, lol. You are simply wrong, maybe you should evaluate whether or not you are doing the same thing with the likes of Ann Coultier and Rush Limbaugh.
Actually, I'm inclined to agree with the jury. There is no legal or thoughtful reason not to. What Limbaugh and Coulter think about it is irrelevant, just like what the msm thinks about it.

Christopher000 wrote:
... but I have heard it mentioned on talk radio several times as being one of the arguments against an all white, racist jury. That would make sense anyway, given the situation; having black jurors as well, that is
The race baiters have to explain how a "white racist" jury can be racist and yet support Zimmerman who is not white.
124

News Item7/18/13 8:22 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
John for JESUS wrote:
This death is the one the news article is about. I believe someone got away with murder which I am not happy about. I think I know enough of the facts to say so. You're assuming I can't think for myself and am beholden to what the libral news media is telling me to think, lol. You are simply wrong, maybe you should evaluate whether or not you are doing the same thing with the likes of Ann Coultier and Rush Limbaugh.
Nobody got away with anything, nobody can. In this case...

1)GZs life from now on will be a living hell.
2)All men will answer for their sins on judgment day

Its my opinion you are being manipulated to be angry by the media.

123

News Item7/18/13 8:03 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
That last comment was to Mike from NY
122

News Item7/18/13 8:02 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
This death is the one the news article is about. I believe someone got away with murder which I am not happy about. I think I know enough of the facts to say so. You're assuming I can't think for myself and am beholden to what the libral news media is telling me to think, lol. You are simply wrong, maybe you should evaluate whether or not you are doing the same thing with the likes of Ann Coultier and Rush Limbaugh.
121

News Item7/18/13 7:35 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
J4J, speaking to your comment about George getting out to confront Travon, that is the reason I posted the comments from his "boxing coach".
I can imagine him yelling, "what are you doing around here?" from down the block, but a physical or close space confrontation given his timid nature? Well, I wasn't there, so who knows.
As for why Travon didn't grab the gun (1) Maybe he tried and that's how the fight got started (2) Their only lighting came from the street lamps...it was dark so he probably didn't even know George had a gun unless he flashed it or wore it on a chain hanging from his neck.

Rafael, I commented something similar earlier and believe one of two things are true before anyone dies: (1) Everyone is given multiple opportunities, solid, unmistakable opportunities, to accept Christ and turn from sin. (2) God knows, in His foreknowledge, that they will have never accepted His call.
The Arminian/Calvanism thing still confuses me so some may disagree.

120

News Item7/18/13 6:48 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John for JESUS wrote:
Wake up! A kid was murdered!
Not to diminish the tragedy, what is it about this one death that occupies you? How did you become so involved with this one among the many that occur every day? If you are personally connected, that would explain. But if you got your info from the race-baiting media, you only know what has been spoon-fed to you. How can you decide the jury was wrong, based on limited and skewed info?
119
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