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THURSDAY, APRIL 24, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
Choice News TUESDAY, MAY 21, 2013| 92 comments| 1 commentary
Update: 24 killed in Moore tornado, 9 children

MOORE, Okla. – The medical examiner’s office has confirmed 24 people were killed in the Moore tornado Monday.

Amy Ellis with the M.E.’s office said 9 of those killed are children.

She said seven children were found at Plaza Towers elementary school and two more were found elsewhere.

Ellis said that number could continue to rise.

The medical examiner’s office confirmed at least 233 people have been injured but 101 people were pulled from the damage overnight.


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Did God create evil?
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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 92 user comment(s)
News Item5/22/13 4:19 PM
Amusing  Find all comments by Amusing
SteveR wrote:
Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
The differentiation between Infralapsarianism and Supralapsarianism has to do with the order of eternal decrees resulting in election, not any bizarre assignment for evil. And its not one or the other as there are other views like Arminianism & Amyraldism
Amusing to read an incompetent comment on issues which are way beyond him. Stick to the shallow murky water you're used to and avoid the clear depths where you'll drown. Your mind is not made to receive truth but to receive and praise error.
52

News Item5/22/13 4:14 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
SteveR wrote:
Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
The differentiation between Infralapsarianism and Supralapsarianism has to do with the order of eternal decrees resulting in election, not any bizarre assignment for evil. And its not one or the other as there are other views like Arminianism & Amyraldism
Thanks for your interest Steve, no the blind cannot lead the blind! That is scripturally true and it is also logically true. I was just attempting to be cute when I wrote supralapsarianism versus infralapsarianism. I think Chris got the humor; notice his ha ha. It would be impossible to discuss or debate all the ramifications of the supra/infra issue on this forum, so I wasn't attempting to.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if you asked for clarification the next time before you resort to insults?

As an aside, I still have my 50 page meditation on the "cult of Catholicism, 101" if you want it. I would be more than happy to send it to you.

51

News Item5/22/13 4:00 PM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Frank wrote:
Hey Chris. Thanks, it is a difficult subject and my musing was sort of rambling, but that is the way I look at it. As parents, we create the impetus or the source for evil, but not the evil. When God created mankind, He created the impetus or source, but not the evil. Therefore, He is not the author of evil.
Supralapsarianism versus infralapsarianism.
Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

The differentiation between Infralapsarianism and Supralapsarianism has to do with the order of eternal decrees resulting in election, not any bizarre assignment for evil. And its not one or the other as there are other views like Arminianism & Amyraldism

50

News Item5/22/13 3:43 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Frank Wrote:
"Supralapsarianism versus infralapsarianism"

You read my mind...ha-ha. Huh?

To Mike and Thoughts...I was talking about Frank making his post sound sensical as compared to mine, not yours.

49

News Item5/22/13 3:33 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Christopher000 wrote:
Good summary, Frank. That's the way I was leaning; the last paragraph...the way you were able to make sound sensical.
Hey Chris. Thanks, it is a difficult subject and my musing was sort of rambling, but that is the way I look at it. As parents, we create the impetus or the source for evil, but not the evil. When God created mankind, He created the impetus or source, but not the evil. Therefore, He is not the author of evil.

Supralapsarianism versus infralapsarianism.

48

News Item5/22/13 2:57 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Gil Rugh said or, wrote:
1) Disobedience to God leads to increasing
wickedness and corruption.
2) Failure to discipline sin among God's people is a
sign of spiritual decay.
3) Failure to discipline sin leads to increasing sin
and corruption.
4) All creation is under God's sovereign authority -
even the demons.
5) The demons are used by God to bring about
judgment and discipline.
6) God has made complete provision for us in our
spiritual conflict.
7) God will judge the wicked.
part of the summary for,God's Sovereignty in Evil Affairs

James 1
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.---NASB

Remember All Sin Comes From Within

By the way at the moment the death toll is at 24.

47

News Item5/22/13 2:50 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Good summary, Frank. That's the way I was leaning; the last paragraph...the way you were able to make sound sensical.
46

News Item5/22/13 12:53 PM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
Maybe God's judgment because of the antichrist idea of schooling? If those children would have been at home instead of institutionalized then maybe they'd still be alive.

And recall the hospital in Joplin, maybe God's judgment on the wickedness going on in there?

45

News Item5/22/13 10:27 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Musings!

Scripture teaches that in God’s mind I was chosen and saved before the foundation of the world. Therefore, I and my sins were known by God before He created anything.

Now what choices did God have in the creation of "mankind"?

1. He couldn’t have created other divine beings.
2. Creating robots without free-will would be out of the question.
3. So, the only choice He had was to create beings with free-will.

Now since God is all knowing, He would have known that Adam would fall due to his free-will; the same as He knew that I would be a sinner. Now, the question as to whether or not He is the author of my evil.

God told us to be fruitful and multiply. When we do that, we know “with certainty” that our children will indeed sin and offend a holy and righteous God. So, can anyone say that because I chose to obey God and be fruitful and multiply, then I am responsible for the evil of my children? Of course not, I simply did the only thing that was available to me; I simply procreated someone who would without doubt be a sinner. And our heavenly Father did the only thing that was available to Him; He created mankind, but He is not the author of our evil in a direct causative sense the same as I am not responsible for the evil of my children.

44

News Item5/22/13 10:09 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Excellent...thanks a lot! Your comment, Mike and "thoughts" are more or less what I probably didn't do a great job of conveying. I get it...thanks. I wonder how many really understand or use it as ammunition.
43

News Item5/22/13 8:48 AM
Thoughts  Find all comments by Thoughts
Christopher000 wrote:
When God said, "I create evil", did he create the boy to be an evil puzzle piece in His master plan because he was needed to make everything else come together? Or, when God said, "I create evil", did he simply mean that since the boy turned out to be evil, God is saying that since he created the boy, and the boy grew up to be evil, then he created the evil, because he created the boy, but the boy made his own decision to become evil, even though God did not intend for him to be evil. So, God created the evil, only by default, because he created the boy who chose to become evil.
Ha-ha...oh brother, anyone understand that mess?
No Christopher0000. The verses do not mean that God is the author of sin.

The evil referred to is circumstantial IOW bad things will happen and God will be the author of these for judgement or chastisement.

Of course, is a person is obstinately evil God can as a judgement abandon them to the natural outcome of their foolishness (viz. hardening of the heart, the consequences that flow from their foolish actions etc.).

42

News Item5/22/13 8:39 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Christopher000 wrote:
When God said, "I create evil", did he create the boy to be an evil puzzle piece in His master plan because he was needed to make everything else come together? Or, when God said, "I create evil", did he simply mean that since the boy turned out to be evil, God is saying that since he created the boy, and the boy grew up to be evil, then he created the evil, because he created the boy, but the boy made his own decision to become evil, even though God did not intend for him to be evil. So, God created the evil, only by default, because he created the boy who chose to become evil.
---
Chris, the evil spoken of is not evil in the commonly understood way. Since no evil dwells in God,(Psalm 5:4) neither can he be the source of it. Since he is against those who do evil(Psalm 34:16) he cannot be against himself. Since those who love the Lord are called to hate evil(Psalm 97:10) it does not follow that we should hate what God does, therefore what he does is not evil.

When Scripture speaks of God creating evil, it means the chaos that results from sin.

Isaiah 45:7a
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:...

Note it isn't "good" contrasted with evil here, but peace.

41

News Item5/22/13 7:33 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
When God said, "I create evil", did he create the boy to be an evil puzzle piece in His master plan because he was needed to make everything else come together? Or, when God said, "I create evil", did he simply mean that since the boy turned out to be evil, God is saying that since he created the boy, and the boy grew up to be evil, then he created the evil, because he created the boy, but the boy made his own decision to become evil, even though God did not intend for him to be evil. So, God created the evil, only by default, because he created the boy who chose to become evil.
Ha-ha...oh brother, anyone understand that mess?
40

News Item5/22/13 7:32 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks, John, Frank, and MS for the great verses. This was my 1st time hearing them. Maybe SJ John, as well...haven't read Psalm 90 yet.
"I create evil" Let me post how I read this: I guess my thought would come across better with a short analogy:
Say I have twin babies; boys, and throughout the years, they are seemingly normal, happy, and well grounded. When they hit their teens, I begin having trouble with one of the twins. He becomes rebellious, angry, turns Into a bully, a vandal, etc, and doesn't seem to mind hurting animals. I did everything right but the boy is turning out to be the polar opposite of his honor roll, compassionate, polite, soft spoken, God loving brother. Ni matter what I do; prayer, councilling, pleading, whatever, he just gets worse and worse. As an adult, the boy moves out, lives a less than stellar life, becoming addicted to drugs, in and out of jail, etc. The boy has become such a monster that he, along with another man do a home invasion, and kill the entire family but only after raping the women. He is caught, and jokes around about the crime during his trial...showing no empathy or remorse.
39

News Item5/22/13 7:15 AM
SteveR  Find all comments by SteveR
Mike wrote:
The fall that afflicts mankind with tornadoes is the same fall that afflicted Herod. Blame is better applied where it belongs.
My brother in Christ Guido de Bräs offers only one prooftext(Mat 10), but I can think of countless others for this section in the Belgic Confession

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

I would add the ENTIRE Song of Moses, to which this is but a sample

Deut 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. . Deuteronomy 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. Deuteronomy 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people,..
..Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. Deut 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

38

News Item5/22/13 6:13 AM
wateronthirstyground  Find all comments by wateronthirstyground
Spurgeon today: "O let my trembling soul be still, And wait Thy wise, Thy holy will! I cannot, Lord, Thy purpose see, ***Yet all is well since ruled by Thee.***"

For the last couple of weeks I have been studying a book 'Not By Chance' which I saw recommended here- a wonderful bible study on the providence and Sovereignty of God which has been so valuable re: some serious personal things which are on-going. I haven't much money so I prayed that the Lord would supply such cheaply,had a look on ebay and just listed was a second hand copy at £4.69- the only one on ebay. The next day I looked again and it was reduced to £.3.69 inc postage. It arrived in as new mint condition! The Lord reminded once again of His Sovereignty in all things.

'This modern, readable work on the mystery and the means of providence comes as water on thirsty ground. This glorious and practical subject has been so neglected..this is a masterly source of comfort and doctrine..to deepen trust, no matter what life brings, and in this it succeeds admirably!'

I am not too proud to ignore the years of study that has produced such a book and gleaned so much from such a providential provision. If any are considering 'adversity' then it might be a helpful study.

37

News Item5/22/13 5:03 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
MS wrote:
Another verse to add to those already posted.
See now that I ,even I,am He,and there is no god with me: I kill,and I make alive; I wound,and I heal:neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Deut.32:39
Thanks MS!
36

News Item5/21/13 8:49 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
SteveR wrote:
As was the Slaughter of the Innocents, the first Christian Martyrs
Matthew 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
Maybe your god is too weak to prevent this, not mine.
---
The last sentence makes no sense. The fact that God could prevent something doesn't make him the source of it.

The fall that afflicts mankind with tornadoes is the same fall that afflicted Herod. Blame is better applied where it belongs.

35

News Item5/21/13 5:32 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Another verse to add to those already posted.
See now that I ,even I,am He,and there is no god with me: I kill,and I make alive; I wound,and I heal:neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Deut.32:39
34

News Item5/21/13 4:23 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Very good scripture; thanks! It sounds like a true Christian was suffering for reasons he could not comprehend. But, then like all believers instead of leaving God, he turned to Him beginning in verse 20. Adversity makes all believer's faith stronger and it drives others away.
EXCELLENT SCRIPTURE!
[5] For his anger [endureth but] a moment; in his favour [is] life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy [cometh] in the morning. [6] And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved. (Psa 30:5-6 KJV)
Bro, we're really on the same side of the road on this, Amen.

I've got one more scripture for you to add to your collection. But then, you've probably got it already:

Isaiah 50:10 KJV
10 Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.

Seeing as the road to the celestial city has this experience somewhere along the track, it behoves all believers to write or paint this text on a board and stick it on a wall somewhere. What an exhortation to remember!

33
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