Study says too many Americans still drink too much
On any given day in the United States, 18 percent of men and 11 percent of women drink more alcohol than federal guidelines recommend, according to a study that also found that 8 percent of men and 3 percent of women are full-fledged "heavy drinkers."
That means the great majority of Americans stay within the advised limit of two drinks a day for men and one for women, according to the study that appeared in the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.
"And in fact, most adults don't drink at all on any given day," said lead author Patricia Guenther, a nutritionist at the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion....
No matter where this goes, I think this will end up being one of those areas that I'm just not crystal clear on. The way I've been handling these situations is this: whenever something isn't clear to me as to whether or not it is a sin, I work on not doing it. That way, it is no longer a concern of mine. If I am wrong, and it would have been fine, then no big deal. If I was correct, well, then , whew!
John UK wrote: Thank you Rufus, and Frank and Mike. As I read through scriptures, I find things like this: Ephesians 5:18 KJV 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Now as far as I am concerned, this wine was obviously strong enough to get drunk on, and Paul exhorts not to drink too much of it....
He is saying do not drink alcoholic wine in this verse. He's not saying not to drink to excess he's saying wherein is excess. Having said that, there are warnings not to drink too much non-alcoholic wine as if one over consumes it can ferment in the body and cause drunkenness.
On the wedding, the moment one places alcohol to their lips their body is affected. This is something secular doctors will admit. Whether one drinks one drop or one gallon they are merely in different degrees of drunkenness. So are you advocating ...the guests had well drunk less potent alcohol and Jesus Christ brought them more potent alcohol? And do you still think this to be right behaviour our Lord? Every drunkard starts out with one drink, do you reckon Jesus Christ would be tempting folks with that second, third, fourth drink?
Very interesting comments and scripture versus. I haven't heard the parable of the wine explained until now; I just had my own interpretation, so thanks for that, Mike. Proverbs 31:6, 7 which Frank posted really seals the deal, I think. Drinking unfirmented grape juice will not accomplish these things. The only thing I question is that it makes it sound as if it's okay there to catch a buzz, or more??? Proverbs was written by Solomon, I think, and they are basically his thoughts? So, is this book directly from the Holy Spirit as well?, or just his personal wisdom, etc? The context here seems to differ a bit from other passages which speak to alcohol consumption. Resveritrol, the grapes magic ingredient, doesn't need to be fermented so Rufus is right on with that one.
As I read through scriptures, I find things like this:
Ephesians 5:18 KJV 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Now as far as I am concerned, this wine was obviously strong enough to get drunk on, and Paul exhorts not to drink too much of it.
But hey, if it was a sin to drink such a drink, why then did Paul not say? "Do not drink wine." That would make more sense.
It is clear to me that Paul was saying that if you drink a wine capable of getting you inebriated, be careful how much you have - temper it.
Besides which, he implies, if you are filled with the Spirit, it is far better for you, costs you nothing, and brings much pleasure to the human frame, and results in godliness with joy, which is what Christianity is about.
As for the wedding, maybe the guests were given well watered down wine to begin with, which would hardly affect their equilibrium, so that when Jesus produced the well matured wine, it would not have been enough to get them drunk. Don't forget, there may have been hundreds of guests.
Now there is nothing in scripture that says Jesus didn't make real wine and if He gave it those who were already buzzed, then it wasn't a sin. John's thoughts about the wedding supper were correct. Okay now for a litte reasoning. If alcohol was in and of itself a sin, then it would never be used. But you don't drink grape juice to relieve pain or a heavy heart.
Proverbs 31:6. Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Consider Luke 5:37-39. "And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. No man also having drunk old [wine] desireth new; for he saith, The old is better."
Jesus uses this parable to show that the gospel of grace He brings (new wine) cannot be put into or added to the old forms, rituals, laws, traditions, the way of the Pharisees. (old bottles) Godâ€™s righteousness cannot be added to or mixed with manâ€™s. If it is attempted, the bottles will be destroyed. New wine must be put into new bottles (hearts turned to Christ) Both are then preserved. The Pharisees are reluctant to believe Christ, because they foolishly say the old way is better.
The illustration/metaphor Jesus uses works, and only works, for this reason. If new, fermenting wine is put into old, rigid, brittle bottles, the expanding gases will break the bottles. If the Pharisees do not change, and remain stiff-necked, they will be broken by the gospel. They will perish. They must be open to the gospel, becoming new bottles.
Reasoned argument is good so argue away my brother.
Isaiah 41:21 - Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
Wine that is nonalcoholic grape juice has similar variants in quality as wine that is alcoholic grape juice. Surely aging is a factor but so too is the content of the juice. The best organic grape juice I can find in my local health food store is cut with water. According to Head & Shoulders , you never get a second chance to make a first impression. So at the beginning you bring forth the good wine and then after men have well drunk, had their pallete dulled from drink, eats and the distractions of the event, you bring out the wine that is cheaper, cut with water etc. and they would be likely not to notice the quality has diminished.
Now the wine is representative of the blood of Jesus Christ. Do we mix the blood with the water? Do we mix the blood with the curse of alcohol in it or is it the pure juice found in the cluster?
Isaiah 65:8 - ... As the new wine is found in the cluster, ...
If it was alcohol what say you to Jesus giving alcohol to people who had already well drunk alcohol? Did Jesus give buzzed/drunk people more booze?
Rufus wrote: Jesus did not turn water into alcohol as he was without sin and surely it would have been sinful to give alcohol to a group of folks that had already well-drunken (even if one believed in the "moderate" drinking of alcohol).
Rufus, you know I'm not one to argue much, but I wonder about your statement here. The wine which was produced by miracle was referred to as "the best wine". Now fruit juice is fruit juice, but wine can mature and improve (so they tell me). So I hardly think they would have mentioned saving "the best" till last, if it had been ordinary non alcoholic fruit of the vine. To my mind, the passage just would not make sense.
Thanks...I guess it's better to be safe and just steer clear of it. I have no desire anyway, but this might present issues for others. I'm just trying to get things right. I can't remember if it's in the Bible, but I thought that if we were not certain whether or not something was a sin, but did it anyway, we would be sinning. I'm not sure if I'm getting that across correctly. Probably not.
Christopher000 wrote: By the way, I meant to ask yesterday a question concerning wine. It seems to me that a glass of wine is ok, no? ... I have heard people say that the water changed into wine was unfermented wine. What is the proof for this?
There are two kinds of wine in the Bible which require rightly dividing. One you are not to look at and is the poison of asps and one that is good for your health and is representative of the blood of Jesus Christ. The one that is a poisonous curse is the alcoholic wine, the one that is a blessing, is the pure juice from the cluster.
Jesus did not turn water into alcohol as he was without sin and surely it would have been sinful to give alcohol to a group of folks that had already well-drunken (even if one believed in the "moderate" drinking of alcohol).
Deuteronomy 32:33 - Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
By the grace of God, have not been an alcohol drinker at anytime in my life. But would dispute street preacher's statement that, *DRINKING ALCOHOL IS AN EVIL SIN UNTO DEATH & HELL-FIRE ! ! Drunkenness is included in the list of those that practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God, and I would be the first to say we should abstain from drinking alcohol, but not sure I could say that a drink condemns a person to eternity in hell.
Christopher000 wrote: Thanks John. I'm the same as I could go throughout the rest of my life without touching a drop. On a side note, I'm dying to know what you said in another thread that got you censored! That's a first and so unusual. I'm assuming your feathers got ruffled like never before for you to say whatever you did.
1. It's a miracle of grace, to be sure. And like you, I thank God every day for the gift of life, considering how wayward my first twenty six years were.
2. Och aye! Someone's feathers got ruffled all right - but not mine. I didn't think it was a bad post worthy of exclusion, but hey, that's water under the bridge. I accept the moderator's conclusions and hope for better days.
Thanks John. I'm the same as I could go throughout the rest of my life without touching a drop. On a side note, I'm dying to know what you said in another thread that got you censored! That's a first and so unusual. I'm assuming your feathers got ruffled like never before for you to say whatever you did.
Christopher000 wrote: By the way, I meant to ask yesterday a question concerning wine. It seems to me that a glass of wine is ok, no? Even the darker beers have health benefits, so isn't it ok for anyone to have a drink here and there, as long as they don't drink to the point of getting buzzed, or drunk, of course? I really don't even like wine much. Some dessert wines are pretty good though. I have heard people say that the water changed into wine was unfermented wine. What is the proof for this?
Chris, I think you have it about right. There is biblical exhortation not to get drunk, which seems to me that excessive drinking is the problem not the drinking of a glass of wine now and again. I myself used to drink a lot before conversion, but the Lord took that all away and I have been a teetotal since 1979 without any desire for even a wee tot.
By the way, I meant to ask yesterday a question concerning wine. It seems to me that a glass of wine is ok, no? Even the darker beers have health benefits, so isn't it ok for anyone to have a drink here and there, as long as they don't drink to the point of getting buzzed, or drunk, of course? I really don't even like wine much. Some dessert wines are pretty good though. I have heard people say that the water changed into wine was unfermented wine. What is the proof for this?
Thank you, and yes, I have most definately been delivered from all on a spiritual level, for sure. I have been addicted to most every illicit drug and many research chems. I spent many years moving from addiction to addiction, selling on the streets, but mostly online/international and modding two underground drug boards for years. The reason I'm so certain is because I begged Fod for years to help me, but I can't say I was sincere and expected Him to do the work. Well, fast forward to early last year...I surrendered myself to Him, and whetherpeople believe it or not, I was delivered that day. The next day: I disappeared off the drug boards forever, never sold or stocked another drug, and to this day, I haven't touched any drug, nor have I had any cravings whatsoever since that day. To me, unusual and unbelievable maybe as my case might be, that was a bonafide spiritual, God ordained, Christ ordered, Holy Spirit driven deliverance. Not a single day has passed by since that I have not thanked Him...not one.
Hopefully Almighty GOD & The LORD Jesus Christ Through The HOLY GHOST (SPIRIT) Has Delievered You, christopher000, From The Evil Sin Of Drinking Wine, Strong Drink, Alcohol &-Or OTHER Intoxicating Beverages & Liquors--Not To Mention All The OTHER Narcotics & Drugs--Whether Liquid, Solid, Powered & Etc. !
chris...000, There Is A World Of Difference Between Being Psychologicall "Reformed" From Alcohol/Liquor/Wine/Strong-Drink/Etc. & Being Spiritually "Regenerated" From Alcohol/Liquor/Wine/Strong-Drink/Etc.
"And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." Genesis 9:9-24
*DRINKING ALCOHOL IS AN EVIL SIN UNTO DEATH & HELL-FIRE ! ! !
I partied hard with drinking when I was younger, going out several times a week and getting drunk every time. Since then, I've come to really dislike any type of alcohol; liquor amd beer. Thank God for that. I just don't care for the taste and would really have to force it down if I were to have any. Not only that, but who wants to experience the morning after hangovers, sickness, laziness, etc. that go along with it all. Some of the bars near me open early AM amd there are people actually there drinking already...what a life.