Leaders representing the Roman Catholic Church and some American Protestant denominations have signed an agreement in Texas to recognize each other's baptisms.
After about six years of dialogue, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Reformed Church in America, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the Christian Reformed Church in North America, and the United Church of Christ signed a document recognizing each other's liturgical rites of baptism.
The five denominations signed the "Common Agreement on Mutual Recognition of Baptism," affirming the baptism agreement on Tuesday evening at a prayer service held at St. Mary's Cathedral in Austin....
SteveR wrote: Thats what made your comment so odd, as Arminus lived centuries before Pelagius. Comments like that make me wonder if the anti RCC crowd here knows the Reformation wasnt the start of Christianity. It actually begins before Genesis, I suggest you read that Bible gathering dust on your bookshelf.
Ooooooo!
Wanting to appear knowledgeable BUT backfired big time. Someone googled to discover you were speaking trash!
SteveR wrote: Thats what made your comment so odd, as Arminus lived centuries before Pelagius. Comments like that make me wonder if the anti RCC crowd here knows the Reformation wasnt the start of Christianity. It actually begins before Genesis, I suggest you read that Bible gathering dust on your bookshelf.
Wrong!!
Jacobus Arminius (October 10, 1560 – October 19, 1609), the Latinized name of the Dutch theologian Jakob Hermanszoon from the Protestant Reformation.
Pelagius (fl. c. 390-418) was an ascetic who opposed the idea of predestination and asserted a strong version of the doctrine of free will.
Note well. The 5th century (Pelagius) is a wee bit before the 17th century (Arminius). Get it???
Galmor wrote: Of course it was. Thats why I said quote; "The Arminians first appear in the 17th century a resurgence of the old cause of Pelagius or Cassian." Do you know when Pelagius and Cassian were alive and operating? BTW the papists don't abuse Arminianism. They teach and believe the original works of Cassian's Semi-Pelagianism, - mixed with their other unBiblical heresies and traditions.
Thats what made your comment so odd, as Arminus lived centuries before Pelagius. Comments like that make me wonder if the anti RCC crowd here knows the Reformation wasnt the start of Christianity. It actually begins before Genesis, I suggest you read that Bible gathering dust on your bookshelf.
Galmor wrote: BTW the papists don't abuse Arminianism. They teach and believe the original works of Cassian's Semi-Pelagianism, - mixed with their other unBiblical heresies and traditions.
And Thomas Aquinas regularly read the works of John Cassian, was visited by the apostles Peter and Paul (who explained their writings to him), was visited by the BVM (who encouraged him to continue preaching), and was visited by angels who brought him sanctification. And people actually respect such an impostor! Occultism, yep!
SteveR wrote: Arminianism has been an issue within the Church long before the 17th century. I would argue that Protestants abuse it as much as Catholics
Of course it was. Thats why I said quote; "The Arminians first appear in the 17th century a resurgence of the old cause of Pelagius or Cassian."
Do you know when Pelagius and Cassian were alive and operating?
BTW the papists don't abuse Arminianism. They teach and believe the original works of Cassian's Semi-Pelagianism, - mixed with their other unBiblical heresies and traditions.
Will you declare what he declared on his deathbed?
The end was near; extreme unction was administered. When the Sacred Viaticum was brought into the room he pronounced the following act of faith:
"If in this world there be any knowledge of this sacrament stronger than that of faith, I wish now to use it in affirming that I firmly believe and know as certain that Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, Son of God and Son of the Virgin Mary, is in this Sacrament . . . I receive Thee, the price of my redemption, for Whose love I have watched, studied, and laboured. Thee have I preached; Thee have I taught. Never have I said anything against Thee: if anything was not well said, that is to be attributed to my ignorance. Neither do I wish to be obstinate in my opinions, but if I have written anything erroneous concerning this sacrament or other matters, I submit all to the judgment and correction of the Holy Roman Church, in whose obedience I now pass from this life."
Poor dab. Judgment for his errors will not come from the Roman Church but from Almighty God, who does NOT appear in a priest's magic show involving ordinary bread and ordinary wine.
Steve, I truly lament your unbelief, and look forward to speaking with you again.
Frank wrote: Gotta go take my wife out to dinner, but before I leave I just want to say that you and I both know that the verses I used were appropriate for SteveR and J.4.J. But, I am not surprise at all that they would twist them for their own ends. Later.
Correct! The simplest Spirit-born can see the relevance of the texts you posted. To all others, they are a mystery.
John UK wrote: Wow, you're such a professional, Steve. I am soooooo impressed.
Gotta go take my wife out to dinner, but before I leave I just want to say that you and I both know that the verses I used were appropriate for SteveR and J.4.J. But, I am not surprise at all that they would twist them for their own ends. Later.
Jim Lincoln wrote: This is a good verse from one of small letters by John, it tells about
Diotripes
Jim Lincoln Sorry but the RCC doesn't list Diotrephes as a Pope.
BUT
I found an intersting article: The Diotrephes Syndrome: A Strategy for Using Church Discipline as a Weapon that touches on what was going on in 3RD John IMHO is of benefit for all of us to consider.
This is a good verse from one of small letters by John, it tells about the first Pope -- Diotripes
3 John 1 9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, neither does he himself receive the brethren, and he forbids those who desire to do so, and puts them out of the church. 11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.---NASB
Really John UK? A Spiritual Sword in that post? Having a sharp sword is only helpful if you know how to use it as Frank quoted Proverbs 17:15, John 8:44 and Galatians 1:6-9. The first deals with the magistrate administering justice, the second a rebuke of the jews that denied Jesus was the Christ and the third was admonishment for those considering the Mosaic Laws binding.
Galmor, Arminianism has been an issue within the Church long before the 17th century. I would argue that Protestants abuse it as much as Catholics
Mike, I too enjoy the richness of 1st John as it not only validates our brothers in Christ but also exposes their false accusers.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Michael Hranek wrote: Bro John Amidst all the Books of the Bible, one that has repeatedly been helpful, and an encouragement to me is 1ST John. I am stunned over and over again how this Apostle speaks of us, the believers he writes to, as having fellowship with him and with the Father and with the Lord Jesus Christ. John's Apostalic leadership and teaching is so encouragingly different from those who only seek to rule and dominate a church BUT not watch over and actually care for the souls in their congregation. AND it is my opinion that God gives us in John, as He does with Paul and with Peter as well, a wonderful example of the kind of leadership and rule a child of God can joyfully submit to and work together with for the Gospel and the Kingdom of God, even to suffer persecution with as well.
Ah yes, Michael. It's biblical Christianity all right.
John UK wrote: Bro Michael I can identify with your point, very much so.
Bro John Amidst all the Books of the Bible, one that has repeatedly been helpful, and an encouragement to me is 1ST John. I am stunned over and over again how this Apostle speaks of us, the believers he writes to, as having fellowship with him and with the Father and with the Lord Jesus Christ.
John's Apostolic leadership and teaching is so encouragingly different from those who only seek to rule and dominate a church BUT not watch over and actually care for the souls in their congregation. AND it is my opinion that God gives us in John, as He does with Paul and with Peter as well, a wonderful example of the kind of leadership and rule a child of God can joyfully submit to and work together with for the Gospel and the Kingdom of God, even to suffer persecution with as well.
I can identify with your point, very much so. I have had to investigate some of these sorts of issues myself, and I am hardly scratching the surface. The devil surely is keeping God's people busy with refuting his distractions, thus keeping them from just living a normal Christian life, serving the Lord and doing his will. The sort of things which leaders should be teaching (seeing as they have the time to devote themselves to prayer and the word of God), are generally having to be sought out by God's people themselves. Thankfully, I have an e-mailed message come through every Lord's Day from a leader in South Wales who regularly gives updates on these sorts of issues. In this I am blessed.
These last days, I think will prove to be difficult to obey certain scriptures as you posted. How can anyone submit themselves to errorists? It makes you wonder if the best thing is to move, and seek out godly pastors and teachers, to whom submission would be a blessing. I guess godly women will have a similar problem, having to seek with discernment a husband (if that is God's will for them), seeing as they would have to live in submission to such.
John UK wrote: Good afternoon bro I used to wonder why so many sermons I heard majored on the doctrine of justification.
Good Afternoon John UK Frank
Your alls posts touch on something I have been wrestingly with for a long long time.
Submission to leadership in the Church.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: FOR THEY WATCH FOR YOUR SOULS, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
It is heartbreaking and stunning how many (quote - I hate to use the word) Baptist (because I am one) Pastors and Preachers are wickedly silent on the 'danger' of ecumenism, the emergent church, Islam, Mormonism, AND the love of the world and its sins among church attending people. To me I have grown in the conviction that I cannot call such men leaders in the church, rulers to obey and submit to BECAUSE they are not watching out for the souls of those in their congregations and BECAUSE to do so would be to be led astray from the Truth and from obedience to Christ AND Jesus Himself has commanded us:
"Take heed that no man deceives (leads you astray)."
The BC that made COURAGEOUS is one example of joining with RCs not warning of them
J4J You have been proclaiming the Arminian heresy on this site for over two years now. The Arminians first appear in the 17th century a resurgence of the old cause of Pelagius or Cassian. With their anti-sovereign god, antichrist effigy and their works based religion, they sought to teach the cooperation of man required by God unto salvation. In this fallacy God is reduced only to responding to a sinner making the 'right' choice, somehow overcoming sin of his own volition (the fallacy of free will) and faith as a human attribute. Thus God loses His sovereignty over His creature. The Arminians were of course Satan's replacement for the RCC which had been relegated by Biblical Christians to the ranks of heresy and idolatry in the Reformation.
Your recent posts defending the idolatrous, blasphemous and repudiated Roman Catholic religious fallacy, suggests your endorsement for the papal antichrist and his unBiblical religion. This demonstrates the subtle nature of your deviation from Scripture and confirms Matt 7:21-23 and 2Peter 2:1-2.
Frank wrote: Brother John UK. Regardless of what these fellows say, they are at a minimum defending a false gospel instead of exposing it.
Good afternoon bro I used to wonder why so many sermons I heard majored on the doctrine of justification. Now I can see that here is THE most important issue known to man in this world: How Can A Man Be Right With God?
To be right with God is to be saved eternally. And to get right with God, a sinner must renounce ALL his own effort and rely solely and wholly upon what the Lord Jesus Christ has done on his behalf. I know we often speak about this, but it does great good to repeat it often, and keep it in our heart and mind.
The enemy is subtle, and no-one is exempt from the siren sounds. The RCC has had to give up its murderous persecutions, but it is still at war with pilgrims, showing itself as the antichrist who delights in the blood of the saints (genuine Christians).
The thread reveals the spell cast on ecumenical churches who are longing to kiss the pope's ring. Unbelievers like them must do what they will, but we must contend earnestly for the faith, taking up the spiritual sword (as you did in your post) and fight to the end, for the truth and for The Truth.
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I am stunned over and over again how this Apostle speaks of us, the believers he writes to, as having fellowship with him and with the Father and with the Lord Jesus Christ.
