members, click to sign in..

3,191 active users!!Bandwidth
FRIDAY
APR 18, 2014
Home
NewsSITE
Events & Blogs
New Audio & Video
BroadcastersNew Stuff!
Local Church Finder
Webcast LIVE NOW!
Sermons by Bible
Sermons by Topic
Sermons by Speaker
Sermons by Date
Staff Picks
CommentsALL -32 min
Top Sermons
VideosPDFs
Daily Log
PhotosNew Stuff!
Stores
Online Bible
Hymnal
Daily Reading
Our Services
Submit Sermon
Members Only

 
FRIDAY, APRIL 18, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
SATURDAY, JAN 12, 2013| 157 comments
Most Evangelical Leaders Back Gun Control?

Evangelical Christian leaders in America have expressed their support for stricter gun regulations following December's tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., where 26 people were fatally shot.

In a poll conducted by the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), 73 percent of church leaders agreed that there needs to be stricter gun regulations, in hopes that tragedies, such as the ones that occurred in Newtown, can be prevented or minimized in the future.

"Evangelicals are pro-life and deeply grieve when any weapons are used to take innocent lives," said Leith Anderson, President of the NAE. "The evangelical leaders who responded to the NAE survey support the Second Amendment right to bear arms but also want our laws to prevent the slaughter of children." ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.christianpost.com

   04/11/14  |  After World Vision, evangelicals debate boundaries over... • 6 comments
   10/06/13  |  The Conference Shaking Up America’s Evangelicals • 6 comments
   04/15/13  |  For Evangelicals, a Shift in Views on Immigration • 4 comments
   04/10/13  |  The Rise of Evangélicos • 6 comments
   03/17/13  |  Luis Palau: New Pope Francis a Friend of Evangelicals • 25 comments
MORE RELATED ( EVANGELICAL ) NEWS | MORE..
   04/16/14  |  SermonAudio Tip: SermonAudio App v2.2 for Android Mobile Devices • 48 comments
   04/16/14  |  As Titanic sank, he pleaded, 'believe in the Lord Jesus!' • 9 comments
   04/13/14  |  Feminists Go Bonkers Over Kirsten Dunst’s One, Simple Comment • 39 comments
   04/13/14  |  U2's Bono Opens Up About Jesus, God And Praying With His Kids • 11 comments
   04/09/14  |  SermonAudio Tip: Kindle Fire + Nook Tablet Version 2.2! • 11 comments
OTHER CHOICE NEWS | MORE..
   02/07/14  |  Bringing the Gospel of John to Every Home in Austin, TX • 31 comments
   01/07/14  |  SermonAudio Partners with RFC for the 2014 Family Conference at... • 1 comments
   01/01/14  |  Happy New Year from SermonAudio! • 29 comments
   12/10/13  |  SermonAudio Broadcaster Loses Historic Church Building To Fire • 3 comments
   07/27/13  |  3 Dead When Bus Carrying Teens Crashes in Indiana • 34 comments
OTHER CHOICE NEWS | MORE..
   04/18/14  |  Clemson football accused of pushing Christianity • 17 comments
   04/18/14  |  Fox News Poll: Many voters say Obama lies to the country on... • 7 comments
   04/18/14  |  Atheists’ Easter taunt to Christians: ‘Jesus is a myth’ • 12 comments
   04/18/14  |  Muslim violence surges for Easter week • 2 comments
   04/18/14  |  Gardasil: Greatest Medical Scandal of All Time • 6 comments
OTHER RECENT NEWS | MORE..

COMMENTS | show all | add new  
    Sorting Order:  
Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 157 user comment(s)
News Item1/18/13 2:21 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
"He was reckoned among the transgressors" is the Isaiah prophecy fulfilled in His arrest & later crucifixion. But you haven't explained how swords connect to this prophecy, you merely asserted it. And why should prophecy fulfillment be opposed to provision for self-defense? Were the swords merely symbols? Well, Jesus *still* permitted them!
Yes, I know it also refers to the two at the cross, but notice this....

"...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors..."

Now in context, without verse intrusion, it is clear that Jesus is relating the sword with the prophecy. At least, that is how I see it.

Now did Peter transgress with his sword? Yes he did, so he was a transgressor, and was rebuked by Jesus immediately.

If I am framed for a crime, the police come to arrest me, and I may not defend myself against them, but must go with them and plead my case according to the law.

This is why Peter was a transgressor. The instituted law must be obeyed; and if gun control laws are changed in the USA you will have to abide it.

Hope that answers yours, John B.

117

News Item1/18/13 2:08 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
But now I shall tell you why Christ ordered his disciples to have a sword at the ready when they came to arrest him. It was to fulfill prophecy.
Luke 22:35-37 KJV
Now you have to take the verses together in their context. Who do you think the trangressors were? And was the prophecy fulfilled when they came to arrest Jesus?
Next verse:
Luke 22:38 KJV
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Enough for what? Think carefully.
"He was reckoned among the transgressors" is the Isaiah prophecy fulfilled in His arrest & later crucifixion. But you haven't explained how swords connect to this prophecy, you merely asserted it. And why should prophecy fulfillment be pitted against provision for self-defense? Were the swords merely symbols of future hazards, or to indulge the Disciples' stupidity? Well, Jesus *still* permitted them! That's good enough for me.
116

News Item1/18/13 2:01 PM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
hmmm, "... And he was reckoned among the transgressors..."

Is that right John?

115

News Item1/18/13 1:57 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
They WERE for self-defense; I've never said otherwise. Luke 22:38 is the proof text, the Biblical precedent that Christ's disciples can carry arms...
Aha! Then I have mistaken something here, and misread a post. Sorry about that, Neil.

But now I shall tell you why Christ ordered his disciples to have a sword at the ready when they came to arrest him. It was to fulfill prophecy.

Luke 22:35-37 KJV
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Now you have to take the verses together in their context. Who do you think the trangressors were? And was the prophecy fulfilled when they came to arrest Jesus?

Next verse:
Luke 22:38 KJV
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Enough for what? Think carefully.

114

News Item1/18/13 1:55 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Mike wrote:
Since Jesus said to buy a sword, and it is enough that there are two, yet also said to put it up when it was used aggressively, the conclusion is simple.
Thank you, well reasoned.
113

News Item1/18/13 1:52 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
Luke 22:38 KJV
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Now we have a dilemma. Jesus was happy to have two swords among his group, but when Peter put his to use, in defending his Master against wrongful arrest, Jesus forbad it, and said to put away the sword, because "he that shall live by the sword shall die by it". It may take a theologian to unravel this one. I certainly do not have an answer.
No theologian necessary. A sword is either an offensive, or defensive weapon. It has no other design function. Since Jesus said to buy a sword, and it is enough that there are two, yet also said to put it up when it was used aggressively, the conclusion is simple. They were taken up to be used as defensive weapons, for the Lord rebuked for the offensive use, and there is no other use left but self defense.
112

News Item1/18/13 1:40 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
You now say that the two swords in these passages were NOT for self-defence, therefore they can hardly be used as proof texts, can they?
They WERE for self-defense; I've never said otherwise. Luke 22:36 is the proof text, the Biblical precedent that Christ's disciples can carry arms, all the more persuasive because it could give the wrong impression to people at the time (i.e., that Christ's Kingdom would come by force of arms). Peter's use of it, during the arrest which came afterwards, was NOT for self-defense.
111

News Item1/18/13 1:37 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
On the contrary, *your* post dated 1/18, 6:03AM, is the one which brought up Matt. 26 in opposition to my argument. I only responded to correct your misunderstanding of it.
I already cited Luke 22:36, what more do you want?
Neil, the references in Matthew, Luke and John all refer to the same situation, when Judas betrayed the Lord and Peter made use of his sword illegally to prevent what he regarded as a wrongful arrest. Jesus rebuked him.

You now say that the two swords in these passages were NOT for self-defence, therefore they can hardly be used as proof texts, can they?

Your premise is that weaponry is our right to bear, in order for self-defence. All I am asking for is a biblical precedent, as I do not want to be disobedient to the Lord, but base my whole life on biblical principles.

If you cannot find one, do you not think that a little odd, that such an important thing should have no instruction from God?

And you think that I'M confused!

110

News Item1/18/13 1:25 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
I asked for a proof text to warrant carrying a sword for self-defense and you produced the scene when Judas betrayed the Lord and he was captured...
Now you are saying that when Jesus told his disciples to have swords at the ready, it was not for self-defence at that time, but much later, after the resurrection
On the contrary, *your* post dated 1/18, 6:03AM, is the one which brought up Matt. 26 in opposition to my argument. I only responded to correct your misunderstanding of it.

And another example of your confusion (or willful deception): I never said permission for sword-possession in Luke 22:38 was for any reason other than self-defense, whether before or after the
Resurrection. Resisting arrest had nothing to do with it!

I consume a lot of space hear correcting your misrepresentations of my views. Please be more careful.

109

News Item1/18/13 1:19 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Surely true, John. Yet today we also have those who do not live by the sword dying by it. Swords need to be licensed and regulated, and the blade no longer than 18 inches. That will keep those who want to kill you with the sword from doing so. We have to do something, you see?
Well Mike, I've got a 9 inch fish filleting knife in the kitchen, extremely sharp. Will that do?

Oh, and a 2lb lump hammer that could do some damage to human flesh.

108

News Item1/18/13 1:09 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
And even if I had a sword, the word of Jesus is to put it up into his place, for those that live by it will die by it.
Surely true, John. Yet today we also have those who do not live by the sword dying by it. Swords need to be licensed and regulated, and the blade no longer than 18 inches. That will keep those who want to kill you with the sword from doing so. We have to do something, you see?
107

News Item1/18/13 12:20 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
1. Nonsense! 2. YOU see a dilemma, but I don't; it doesn't take an expert to figure out that Peter's abuse of his sword (to resist arrest by a posse) doesn't mean he has no right to possess one for self-defense against genuine criminals.
I do take it that your response to my first point is "nonsense!" How so? I asked for a proof text to warrant carrying a sword for self-defense and you produced the scene when Judas betrayed the Lord and he was captured. Now you are saying that when Jesus told his disciples to have swords at the ready, it was not for self-defence at that time, but much later, after the resurrection. So I regard what you are saying as "nonsense". What good would two swords have been anyway against 40 or 50 armed men?

But note, Neil:

John 18:4-6 KJV
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Who needed a sword? They FELL DOWN before Christ!

2. Your proof text please.

106

News Item1/18/13 11:45 AM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
This may have been mentioned, but just in case - In accordance with the typical pet doctrines pertaining to Caesar and government, the "We the people" in the U.S.A. are all Caesars and therefore must have a real sword to praise the believers and to execute wrath on the unbelievers.
105

News Item1/18/13 11:19 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
Interestingly Neil, you have been using these texts as proof of sword ownership for "self-defence". So there goes that one.
...
Now we have a dilemma.
Nonsense! YOU see a dilemma, but I don't; it doesn't take an expert to figure out that Peter's abuse of his sword (to resist arrest by a posse) doesn't mean he has no right to possess one for self-defense against genuine criminals. You do know what a posse is, right? It's not just a Wild West concept; it's short for Posse Comitatus, "to have the right to an armed retinue." As in armed civilians!

All Matt. 26:51ff proves is that we should not resist arrest, even by deluded mobs. This makes sense in light of the civil magistrate's Rom. 13 judicial authority, & the presumed right of civilians to arrest suspects in order to bring them to trial before said magistrate (which in Common Law, dates to 1285).

104

News Item1/18/13 9:48 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Neil wrote:
Irrelevant: Jesus's rebuke was for resisting arrest, not self-defense – the “posse” was there to take Him before the Priests (per Judas's intentions), not kill Him directly.
If Jesus categorically forbade *use* of the sword, as you seem to think, then why did He permit *possession* of it, Luke 22:36?
Interestingly Neil, you have been using these texts as proof of sword ownership for "self-defence". So there goes that one.

Luke 22:38 KJV
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Now we have a dilemma. Jesus was happy to have two swords among his group, but when Peter put his to use, in defending his Master against wrongful arrest, Jesus forbad it, and said to put away the sword, because "he that shall live by the sword shall die by it". It may take a theologian to unravel this one. I certainly do not have an answer.

103

News Item1/18/13 9:21 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
John UK wrote:
Matthew 26:51-52 KJV
Irrelevant: Jesus's rebuke was for resisting arrest, not self-defense – the “posse” was there to take Him before the Priests (per Judas's intentions), not kill Him directly.

If Jesus categorically forbade *use* of the sword, as you seem to think, then why did He permit *possession* of it, Luke 22:36?

BTW Jim, good luck using pepper spray or mace on assailants who are “under the influence” – of narcotics still widely available despite being outlawed for years.

102

News Item1/18/13 8:08 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
lookout writes:
Jim Lincoln wrote:
killing is the proper answer to even getting a dirty look from someone.

Hmmm...a little sneaky. You left out some key words that brought the comment out from its context.

101

News Item1/18/13 6:03 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Matthew 26:51-52 KJV
51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Poor me!

I don't have a sling, a sword, a gun, a hand grenade, rocket launcher, rapid fire machine gun, no semtex, no baseball bat, no flick knife, no tazer, no nuclear weapon.

But then!

Who needs 'em when you've got The Living God!

And even if I had a sword, the word of Jesus is to put it up into his place, for those that live by it will die by it.

100

News Item1/18/13 5:37 AM
lookout  Find all comments by lookout
Jim Lincoln wrote:
killing is the proper answer to even getting a dirty look from someone.
99

News Item1/17/13 3:24 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
The biblical character that gave me the most impetus was Onesiphorus, 2 Ti chapter 1.
It is great to hear of that, Frank. It must have been a most exciting time, with spiritual blessings for everybody.

Ah, these verses:

2 Timothy 1:16-18 KJV
16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

and:
2 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

It just goes to prove the effect of a new birth and the indwelling of the Spirit, that concern for others' spiritual welfare, especially in places like that, is produced.

98
There are a total of 157 user comments displayed | add new comment |Subscribe to these comments
Page 1 | Jump to Page : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 | last
Last PostTotal
Atheists’ Easter taunt to Christians: ‘Jesus is a myth’
phillip gray from gordo, al: "i agree jim &r.k.!!:) ;)"
-30 min 12 
Muslim violence surges for Easter week
phillip gray from gordo, al: "i agree jim!!:) ;)"
-32 min 
Michael Bloomberg: 'I Have Earned My Place in Heaven'
strat: " cv is this what you're saying? this is the theology of free will. ..."
-51 min 58 


Audio Bible: 2 Kings 4
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Solid Rock Baptist Church

Play! | More

Andrew Quigley
Why And How To Keep On Going!

'One Off Sermons'
Sunday - PM
Airdrie Reformed Presbyterian
Play! | MP3 | RSS


Pastor James Mansfield
The Cross of Christ

Bethel Baptist Chapel
Sunday - PM
Play! | MP3

Noel Bhatti
What Would Judas Do?

Passion Week 2014
First International Bible
Play! | MP3

E. A. Johnston
The Price Of Calvary

Ambassadors For Christ Intl-US
Special Meeting
Transcript!Play! | MP3

Rev. Rodney Kleyn
Weep Not for Me but Yourselves

Covenant Of Grace Protestant
Sunday Service
Play! | MP3

Ken Wimer
Our Lord's Grave

Gospel of John
Shreveport Grace Church
Transcript!Play! | MP3

Bob Vincent
The Administration of Evil

The Unseen War
Grace Presbyterian Church
Play! | MP3

Sponsor:
Paul Washer: "Most Useful Bible Study"

See what Paul Washer calls the most useful Bible study tool in hist­ory. Click here!
www.puritandownloads.com/sw..

Sermon:
Go In Peace
Ken Jones






                   
Souls in heaven are more holy but not more secure. ... Robert Murray McCheyne
Site-Wide RSS & Podcast | Help
Select Podcast Format | Help

HTML Embed | More
Flash Widget | More
Our Staff Picks | Info
Featured Sermon | More

City: Austin, TX
Gospel of John
Cities | Local | Personal
MOBILE
iPhone + iPad New!
Church App
Android New!
Kindle + Nook New!
BlackBerry
Windows Mobile, Nokia
ROKU TV
Kindle Reader

FOLLOW
Staff Picks Feed
Site Notices New!
RSS | Twitter | Facebook
HELP
RSS & Podcasts
Uploading Sermons
Uploading Videos
Webcasting
Favorites
Tips & Tricks
YouTube Screencasts

NEWSLETTER
View Latest Issue
Subscribe
Unsubscribe | Change
Privacy Policy
SERVICES | ALL
Local Church Finder | Info
MP3 Play & Download
Mobile Apps
Podcasting
Video Support
Live Webcasting
Transcription Service
Business Cards
SOLO | MINI | Domains
QR Codes New!
24x7 Radio Stream
INTEGRATION
Sermon Browser
HTML Codes | WordPress
Twitter
Facebook
Logos | e-Sword

BATCH
Transfer Agent
Protected Podcasts
Upload via Email
Auto-Upload Sermons
Auto-Blog Import
Picasa | API | FTP | Dropbox
ABOUT US
SermonAudio.com is the largest library of audio sermons from conservative churches and ministries worldwide. All broadcasters must adhere to the Articles of Faith.
Our Services | Testimonials New!
Broadcast With Us!
Support Us
Advertising | Local Ads

CONTACT
info@sermonaudio.com
Copyright © 2014 SermonAudio.com.