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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/22/2014
SATURDAY, DEC 29, 2012  |  134 comments  |  1 commentary
Chicago police confirm 'tragic number' of 500 homicides
Chicago reached “a tragic number” today, according to Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy: Its homicide total for the year hit 500, the highest annual total since 2008.

The city's latest homicide occurred around 9 p.m. Thursday when Nathaniel T. Jackson, 40, an alleged gang member with a lengthy arrest record, was gunned down outside a store in the Austin neighborhood.

As of Thursday night, homicides were up 17 percent over last year in Chicago and shootings had increased by 11 percent, according to police statistics. Earlier this fall, Chicago already exceeded the number of homicides that occurred last year, but this is the first time the city has had 500 or more murders since the 512 in 2008. ...


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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 134 user comment(s)
News Item1/3/13 9:16 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Revelation 5:1 KJV
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Note, God is a Spirit, and he never "sits down" anywhere, nor does he have a "hand" as Kenneth Copeland vainly imagines.

Revelation 5:6 KJV
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Picture language.

Revelation 6:2 KJV
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Note, the four horses are not four horses but picture language.

Great passages for mediaeval artists, but for professing Christians a mystery which needs unravelling.

Lurker, just spotted yours.

94

News Item1/3/13 9:08 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
Christopher, have you ever belonged to a candlestick? Rev 1:12

The Book of Revelation is full of picture language, and it does not always say what the pictures mean, unlike this passage.

Agree completely.

Our goal, as students of God, is not only to learn what God said, because even the heathen can read and comprehend, but to also learn what He meant by what He said.

The problem I have witnessed in this discussion with every arguement for or against a literal interpretation of this or that is every one without exception is entirely subjective. The reader of the bible makes a personal judgment call on every word/object encountered as he reads with little consideration of whether that judgment call is consistent with all other appearances of the same word/object.

For example; in the first text I quoted below, the scroll sealed with seven seals could easily be interpreted as a literal book but if that book is the same book Ezekiel was commanded to eat, how will it be interpreted there?

Also, there is the book in Rev 10:9 which John was commanded to eat; sweet as honey and bitter in the belly (see Ps 109:103). Literal or figurative?

IMO, it's important to learn what God said but equally important to learn what He meant.

93

News Item1/3/13 8:33 AM
Rufus | Fort Worth, TX  Protected NameFind all comments by Rufus
Christopher000 wrote:
I believe there are literal books, scrolls, etc, because the passages say there are. Maybe these books, scrolls, contain some kind of Heavenly shorthand, or are of a magical nature. I think the Earth we know is a very dim copy of Heaven. I'm speaking of the natural parts as opposed to anything manmade, if course.
I believe that there are gates of pearl, clear, golden streets, and every other kind of precious stone beauty, but I also believe that the other parts of Heaven mirror the Earth, only as it was suppose to be.
We were all created in God's likeness, so I've always believed the the Earth was also fashioned after Heaven. I'm sure Heaven is much more spectacular, but similar.
God doesn't do magic and he is actually quite contrary to it in spite of what Harry Potter Christians might think.

Second, keep in mind that heaven comes down for this is another pervasive RC myth that we all go to heaven eternally whereas heaven actually comes to us. We go to the sky briefly for judgment and Lord willing come back with him on horses to destroy the wicked and bring in the Kingdom of Christ on earth.

Love your posts and your spirit Christopher, grace and peace to ya.

92

News Item1/3/13 8:16 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
I believe there are literal books, scrolls, etc, because the passages say there are.
Christopher, have you ever belonged to a candlestick? Rev 1:12

The Book of Revelation is full of picture language, and it does not always say what the pictures mean, unlike this passage.

Heaven is not at great distance from us, as though it were in a separate universe. But if there were any physical objects in it, then we should surely be able to find it. Personally, I believe that when we die, we shall be in heaven very quickly. In other words, there is no great journey to undertake to get there.

Revelation 1:16 KJV
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

7 stars? A sword coming out of his mouth?

For an answer to the mystery, check out verse 20.

91

News Item1/3/13 7:26 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I believe there are literal books, scrolls, etc, because the passages say there are. Maybe these books, scrolls, contain some kind of Heavenly shorthand, or are of a magical nature. I think the Earth we know is a very dim copy of Heaven. I'm speaking of the natural parts as opposed to anything manmade, if course.
I believe that there are gates of pearl, clear, golden streets, and every other kind of precious stone beauty, but I also believe that the other parts of Heaven mirror the Earth, only as it was suppose to be.
We were all created in God's likeness, so I've always believed the the Earth was also fashioned after Heaven. I'm sure Heaven is much more spectacular, but similar.
90

News Item1/3/13 5:42 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Then may we assume if the books the apostle saw were not books, perhaps the dead he saw were not the dead, and so were not judged out of the things written in the books that were not books?
Mike, just as the Baptists ignored the impossible logistics of John Baptist baptising so many people by immersion in the Jordan, you have also ignored the physical impossibility of there being books in heaven. Why is it you think we need to be changed before entering?

And Mike, do you really think that God has been scribing every single thought, word and deed, of every single man, woman and child that ever lived, and putting all of this info into books which he will consult at the Great Judgment, like some lawyer with his portfolio of evidence? I can assure you bro that God is great enough to do without books. Besides which, the amount of info needed would fill a million libraries of books, and John's vision was of a few allegorical books.

89

News Item1/2/13 10:40 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Mike wrote:
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Then may we assume if the books the apostle saw were not books...

Hey bro,

The "books" need not be a mystery. Consider the first judgment.

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne **a book written within and on the backside**, sealed with seven seals.

Where else in scripture do we find such a book written front and back?

Eze 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee. And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein; And he spread it before me; and **it was written within and without:** and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.

Exd 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: **the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.**

IMO, the "books" figure the Law of Moses (Rom 2:12).

88

News Item1/2/13 7:42 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
Then may we assume if the books the apostle saw were not books, perhaps the dead he saw were not the dead, and so were not judged out of the things written in the books that were not books?
I liked that Mike! After reading and pondering all the posts regarding the subject of the Millennium, it would appear that four of us are totally correct; namely you, me, Rufus and unprofitable servant. Of course there may have been more, but I am too tired to go back and review them. And of course, the list of those who were partially correct is too long to note. But, I did enjoy your comments. Thanks.
87

News Item1/2/13 7:29 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
I would say so, US. I don't think there will be any books in heaven. The omniscient God has no need of such primitive methods of storage.
Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Then may we assume if the books the apostle saw were not books, perhaps the dead he saw were not the dead, and so were not judged out of the things written in the books that were not books?

86

News Item1/2/13 6:35 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Is the book of life allegorical?
I would say so, US. I don't think there will be any books in heaven. The omniscient God has no need of such primitive methods of storage.
85

News Item1/2/13 5:33 PM
headspin  Find all comments by headspin
Lurker wrote:
Have you ever heard of the hermeneutic circle?
Is that that Five in One scary roundabout in Swindon?

anti-clockwise circle

84

News Item1/2/13 5:13 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Floodleburger wrote:
Oooh Couldn't do that John, he gets far to ebullient when we mention the dreaded 'A' word.
You mean ...... "arminist"?
83

News Item1/2/13 4:03 PM
Floodleburger  Find all comments by Floodleburger
John UK wrote:
You will have to take this up with Lurker. I am only asking questions.
Oooh Couldn't do that John, he gets far to ebullient when we mention the dreaded 'A' word.
82

News Item1/2/13 1:42 PM
Publican | Northern Hemisphere  Find all comments by Publican
Please refer to my 12:14 post, US, concerning the 'thousand' issue. Thank you for your response. I am now examining my mind on this.
I believe part of my problem is that I am confusing literal with physically observable, and allegorical with spiritual. I could not see a literal dragon and chain, etc.
Thank you for your prayers, Lurker. Just a follow up scan to brain surgery. I believe I'm alright. Will know soon.
I am an amill who believes that the events in the OT, purportedly describing the atmosphere in the proposed millennium, are the latter days describing the results of being in Christ.
Isaiah 2, 11, 65 and so forth.
Can't thank you enough for sticking with me on this. I still have a lot of work to do in this arena. I feel like I'm trying to jump out of the water, while I'm treading it.
I pray that I am communicating this well enough.
81

News Item1/2/13 1:02 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Publican wrote:
Nowhere in your 12/31/12 do you address this passage, US. ...
I confess I must not be the great communicator but I talked about the context around the verses you claim were allegorical in my 12/31 post. You said nothing else in this entire scenario is literal (1/1/13 9:28 PM). I had quoted verses that surround Rev. 20:1-7 and asked if they were allegorical, are you saying they are? You said no one not on your side quoted Scripture (1/1/13 5:10 PM), yet that is the vast majority of the post in which you said I did not address the issue. I could have mentioned phrases in the passage; Are those who did not take the mark of the beast and beheaded over whom the second death hath no power allegorical? Is the ensuing battle allegorical? Is the devil being cast into the lake of fire allegorical? Is the book of life allegorical? The whole passage appears to be literal, no hermetical sense to take it otherwise. It was you who said that there were virtually no references where thousand meant thousand (1/1/13 9:28 PM)but the testimony of Scripture is just the opposite, nearly 400 times. I am trying to answer what you are saying in your posts, my apologies if I am not clear.
80

News Item1/2/13 12:00 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Hello Publican,

I just saw your post and want you to know that I am praying for a good outcome from your CAT scan. Please let us know how it turns out. While we may not agree on all things, we are brothers and need to help bear each others burdens.

Regarding the current discussion of the reign of Christ, be aware that amongst the four of us who have been posting there is two different schools of thought. John and I hold to the amill view while Mike and Frank see the reign and kingdom as a future event. While we can't agree amongst ourselves we are in agreement that the reign is not a fulfilled historical event as you have presented. And for what its worth, I've never seen a commentary or article teaching that the reign of Christ was fulfilled during His adult mortal lifetime which is why I asked if you could provide a link which further expounded your view.

We are here to help you sort this out if you want. It's not a matter of winning or losing a discussion but coming to the knowledge of truth for the glory of God.

God's blessings, brother.

79

News Item1/2/13 11:43 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Floodleburger wrote:

Not again John.
All this Arminian human effort makes my head spin.
You will have to take this up with Lurker. I am only asking questions.
78

News Item1/2/13 11:35 AM
Publican | Northern Hemisphere  Find all comments by Publican
I am not sure what the error on my part is, in specific. I do believe that my principles were correct, but my application may have not been. I'm still sliding passed my own understanding, or misunderstanding, like two self-contained planes, never making contact. It almost itches. Have a lot of work to do (that, and a CAT scan this morning). For the motivation to this, I am indebted to you, Christopher 000, and you, Lurker. Not being able to understand your post to me, Lurker, I was up all night, reading it time and again, until...
Like I said; lots of work to do.
77

News Item1/2/13 11:35 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
But let us say that we have a doctrine T. Fifteen parts support T and only one part seems to be against it. What we then do is accept T as a true doctrine, and say we cannot understand the one part which seems to go against it. At least, that is what I tend to do!
First I would consult the two rules I listed yesterday. Then I would mentally label the doctrine as "unsettled" in my mind because if I accept it as "settled" without answering the single apparent contradiction, I've accepted compromise of the truth. Then I would continue the hermeneutic circle, not necessarily targeted at the single apparent contradiction but rather for a clearer understanding of the big picture, in the hope that one day it would lead to an answer to the unsettled apparent contradiction. I don't believe I will live long enough to arrive at a contradiction free interpretation of all doctrines so, for me, the hermeneutic circle is a way of life.

Nice chat, John. I'd better get to work.

Mike wrote:
Rev. 1:1-3 also places in timeline context that which follows.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants.....

things which must shortly come to pass

76

News Item1/2/13 11:22 AM
Floodleburger  Find all comments by Floodleburger
John UK wrote:
2. So that if I derive five doctrines from one chapter of scripture which are actually true, they nevertheless remain presuppositions until proven to agree with the rest of the whole of scripture? Is that it?

Not again John.
All this Arminian human effort makes my head spin.
75
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