Pastor Rick Warren Hospitalized, Awaiting Diagnosis
Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church was hospitalized Tuesday after experiencing pain in his arms.
The renowned Southern California pastor will be undergoing a series of tests to determine what the cause is though the doctor's "diagnostic guess" is that he has an inner ear virus that may have spread to the nerves in his neck and down his arms.
"[P]ray for a quick and accurate diagnosis, a fast remedy," he asked his megachurch in an email Tuesday late afternoon.
Pastor Mike wrote: My opinion is that the theory which best describes the teaching of salvation as written in the Bible is Calvinism. However, I don't believe the Bible is actually true, which means the whole controversy isn't of much interest. So I guess you could call me a Calvinistic atheist. Now is it that I can't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or that I won't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
If you ever get on track at least you will be on the right track.
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK, commented on how the evils of the Reformation, of having an offical Protestant State-Church (sometimes against Baptist-type believers) that abused the power of civil authorities to impose their version of Christianity upon society sometimes by force against the will and conscience of men and women, have never been dealt with.
It occurred to me Michael that true Calvinism is illegal now in the UK, and would result in imprisonment for any who tried to implement it.
This is why the extant "Calvinists" are not Calvinists at all; either that, or they are buttoning their lip. I do wish they wouldn't unbiblically call themselves Calvinists anyway; no wonder they are not being blessed by God, whose word they are going against.
And I wouldn't be saying this but for a desire to see Christians returning to a biblically "sola scriptura" position, obeying the Lord Jesus Christ out of love for him and a desire to see his kingdom growing upon the earth in the hearts of men and women and children, many of whom are currently not even hearing the gospel, nor of the Lord's gift to the Gentiles of repentance.
Men may argue with me, but that will not help the cause of God and truth. On his word I stand.
Phoebe wrote: Micheal H. "A harlot whose lover, the state, hates the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and those who refuse to bow and worship the state as god in things like
Phoebe I would hope you might reconsider your reply to my post.
John UK, commented on how the evils of the Reformation, of having an offical Protestant State-Church (sometimes against Baptist-type believers) that abused the power of civil authorities to impose their version of Christianity upon society sometimes by force against the will and conscience of men and women, have never been dealt with.
As to a supposed "toothless harlot" open your eyes to what is going on in today's society, There in an increasing push for a politically correct anti-Christ ecumenical/interfaith counterfeit imitation of genuine Biblical Christianity, which will embrace all the false religions of the world and which all the false religions of the world can join with, and an anti-Christ and anti-God State (at leaast the Only True and Living God) that will abuse its power to persecute and even slaughter those who resist and object, most likely in the name of world peace and for the children, making Biblical Christianity out to be child abuse.
jpw wrote: Phoebe, its interesting what you posted about idolizing the constitution. ..."
Yes. There are examples all over this forum (Angela Whitman?) Where in the Bible does it tell Christians there is freedom of religion for them? Your government, by being a government for ALL American CITIZENS regardless of religion, has set itself up as a STATE government. It is YOU who are deceived about this. "gives us favour" and "keeps persecution away" - Where in the Bible are Christians told to make a POLITICAL/ WORLD POWER that favours Christians and keeps persecution 'away'. What is the difference between a Church (the RCC for instance) claiming it is a State, with a capitol and a King and The State claiming it is a church, with a capitol and a King. Corporatisation is the fruit of your democracy. Yes. We have built a globalist system. This has been a bit like the building of the Ark. It's taken over a hundred years and no one has been able to stop it's builders. The State Churchessssssss model themselves on the State. Why wouldn't they?
Phoebe, its interesting what you posted about idolizing the constitution. I suppose that does happen and you could probably give good examples.
What I do see in the constitution is some anabaptist flavor.
There is freedom of religion, association and conscience.
We do not have a monolithic religious system. It has become secular and is becoming monlithic again
America was refugees of the sacralist system.
But it is in our propensity as fleshly creatures to create a system that gives us favor and keeps persecution away.
State/church merger in many flavors.
Today its corporatism. Warren's CFR, Crystal Cathedral synergism...
And what I see today, as we support programs and candidates that build a globalist system, is the same spirit as RCC, Calvin, Zwingli and post-Constantine.
In other words, we fear the liberals so much, we will build up the UN, the foreign adventures (supposedly for Is), trade out our rights to fair trial and freedom of travel without harassement and abuse, just to keep out the bad guy....who happens to be running the UN, foreign adventures, and ending right to fair trial and abuse in travel.
What does it profit a man to win the whole world but lose his soul?
It does seem that there is little regard for ind'l freedoms today.
Micheal H. "A harlot whose lover, the state, hates the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and those who refuse to bow and worship the state as god in things like" ... demanding all Americans obey the Law of Moses. Demanding Presidents be Christian. Idolising the constitution. Believing America is a replica of Israel. Invading Iraq in the name of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.??? The CATHOLIC CHURCH is TOOTHLESS Micheal. Over. Done with. A shadow of her former glory. An old man leaning on sticks. An appearance. A facade. Theres nothing behind it. Catholics are divided. John comes here because he can't have these kinds of conversations with other Catholics.
1. That the same line the "lose your salvationist" use 2. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen(Hed 11:1) 3. You are conversing faith with conviction. 4. Like I said all people on earth have faith, from Adam to last man that will be born.
FYI wrote: Thomas Aquinas (About 1225-1274), theologian of the Roman Catholic Church believed that too!
As will anyone who reads the Bible without peer pressure.
jpw wrote: in Michael Sattler, a reformer, we see a man condemned by both the Protestant Sacralist Reformers and Catholic Sacralists. "I Wait Upon My God: The Contribution of Michael Sattler to Our Baptist Heritage" http://www.baptisttheology.org/documents/IWaitUponMyGod.pdf
Interesting but heartbreaking potted history of a converted monk and his wife, thanks jp. I also had a look at that Confession he helped formulate; fascinating
Michael Hranek wrote: The State-Church is in practise a spiritual harlot as The Church belongs to Christ. A harlot whose lover, the state, hates the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and those who refuse to bow and worship the state as god in things like demanding baby baptism (sprinkling - mandatory membership in the state-church) and condemning believers baptism (immersion - liberty of conscience).
John UK wrote: But the evils of The Reformation have never been dealt with, and independents will always be persecuted by the state-church monopolisers. And that, in the name of God, thinking they do God service.
John UK Point well stated.
The State-Church is in practise a spiritual harlot as The Church belongs to Christ.
A harlot whose lover, the state, hates the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and those who refuse to bow and worship the state as god in things like demanding baby baptism (sprinkling - mandatory membership in the state-church) and condemning believers baptism (immersion - liberty of conscience).
John UK wrote: It was that the atonement itself was SUFFICIENT for ALL, but EFFICIENT only in the elect. I have always believed that, as Calvin did.
Thomas Aquinas (About 1225-1274), theologian of the Roman Catholic Church believed that too!
"1 John 2:22 He is the propitiation for our sins, for some efficaciously, but for all sufficiently, because the price of his blood is sufficient for the salvation of all: but it has no efficacy except for the elect because of an impediment. Thomas Aquina, ‚ÄúCommentaria 1 Tim. 2:1-6a,‚ÄĚ in Omnes D. Pauli Apostoli Epistolas Commentaria. (Liege: H. Dessain, 1858), 3:68."
"Aquinas also observes (Quest. disp. de grat. Christi. art. 7, reap. ad 4,) The merit of Christ as to its sufficiency equally regards all men, but not as to its efficacy; which arises partly from free-will, partly from the election of God, through which the effect of the merits of Christ is mercifully conferred upon some, but is by his just judgment withdrawn from others. [Source: John Davenant, Dissertation on the Death of Christ, 543.]"
On the contrary, it is Calvinists who lie about Calvin, because they have formulated their own idea about what the doctrines of grace actually state.
For example, I was reading Calvin's commentary only yesterday, and read where he said that the schools were teaching a certain doctrine, which he would not argue with, concerning the extent of the atonement, but that in the particular text he was commenting on, it was not pertinent and he would not apply that belief to that verse. It was that the atonement itself was SUFFICIENT for ALL, but EFFICIENT only in the elect. I have always believed that, as Calvin did.
I like it when a great theologian has the freedom to argue from two different directions, from two different parts of the Bible, even if they become contradictory. I have always stated that there are seeming paradoxes in scripture, but I would prefer to take each text on its own merit, expounding it in accordance with the whole, without wresting it, as some do to their own destruction.
But the evils of The Reformation have never been dealt with, and independents will always be persecuted by the state-church monopolisers. And that, in the name of God, thinking they do God service.
jpw wrote: Felix Manz, a Christian and fellower reformer, was punished by Zwingli with drowning for practicing believer's baptism.
What does Zwingli prove about Calvin here? He didn't even live in the same city. And as with Geneva & Calvin, the Z√ľrich City Council's judicial actions prove nothing about the validity of Zwingli's teachings.
‚ÄĚAbusive ad hominem ‚Ä¶ can also involve pointing out true character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument.‚ÄĚ ‚Äď¬†Wikipedia
Felix Manz, a Christian and fellower reformer, was punished by Zwingli with drowning for practicing believer's baptism. They jokingly said he was baptized a third time. Zwingli demanded baby baptism (registration) into the Protestant system.
Eph 2:8- It says "For by grace you are saved thought faith;" It the grace that is God gift everyone had faith(including the adients), but they do not have the grace of God and eternal life(security). You can believe that Jesus Christ was a real person(almost everyone do) and not have the grace of God("O,I a Believer"). The Bible says the "gift of God is eternal life thou Jesus Christ our Lord" where you can get faith in there is beyond me(unless you add to it(Rev 22:18,19)
KJB Believer wrote: Can you show me scripture where we get faith as a gift from God(in the KJB of course)?
Eph 2:8. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast
By the sound of it you may be one of these Arminian heretics so perhaps you will not perceive the truth.
If faith is not the gift of God then it is a work of man - this is the heretical salvation by works theory of the Roman Catholics, Arminians, Wesleyan .... et al.
WCF 14/1. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls,a is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,b and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word;c by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.d
a. Heb 10:39. ‚ÄĘ b. Eph 1:17-19; 2:8; 2 Cor 4:13. ‚ÄĘ c. Rom 10:14, 17. ‚ÄĘ d. Luke 17:5; Acts 20:32; Rom 1:16-17; 4:11; 1 Pet 2:2.