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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  12/25/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 20, 2011  |  68 comments
Lutheran denomination clarifies view after Bachmann departure
The nation's third-largest Lutheran denomination moved to clarify its views on the Catholic Church Monday, after being drawn into the national political debate by presidential candidate Michele Bachmann.

The Wauwatosa-based Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the most theologically conservative of the nation's three main Lutheran denominations, issued a statement on its website explaining its long-held tenet that the Catholic papacy is the anti-Christ. But it said that position is born of doctrinal differences rather than anti-Catholic bigotry.

"We respect the right of people to hold beliefs different from ours even as we point out the error," WELS president, the Rev. Mark Schroeder, said in the statement.

"Testifying to the errors that still exist in Catholic doctrine is itself an expression of love," he said. ...


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Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 68 user comment(s)
News Item7/23/11 3:34 PM
Wellings  Find all comments by Wellings
Bibliophile wrote:
Can one be saved even if he subscribes to these unbiblical doctrines?
Jesus saves Bibliophile, NOT doctrine. Don't they teach you that at the Roman Catholic church? Or is RCC doctrines a neccessary part of your works based salvation?

Tell me is JPII going to be entitled "Saint Antichrist" - Here is the reason I ask =

"Did John Paul II have an absolute respect for Scripture? No, it was the exact opposite. In his role as Pope, he published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the first universal catechism of the Catholic Church in several centuries. In it he decreed the following,
“As a result the [Catholic] Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, ‘does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.’”
This teaching of John Paul II equates Scripture with tradition. Christ Jesus continually rebuked the Pharisees because they likewise placed their tradition on a par with Scripture."
(R.Bennett)

Biblio, I can see where you get your disatisfaction with the Word of God.

28

News Item7/22/11 4:47 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
Flidgard wrote:
Wrong again John!!

So the unsaved can "pray" until the cows come home, But saving can only be done by divine hands not mortal...don't forget...

Predestinated chosen (elect) Christians are saved BY CHRIST not by human action or requests!

AND they do not follow the papal antichrist!

Amen, Amen & AMEN ! Flidgard, As THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+ENGLISH+KING-JAMES+HOLY+BIBLE Says:

"And HE (JESUS CHRIST) Said, Therefore Said I Unto You, That NO MAN Can Come Unto ME, EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN UNTO HIM OF MY FATHER." John 6:65

"FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD:

NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST." EPHESIANS 2:8-9

I DARE Say EVEN The "FAITH" Of Ephesians 2:8-9 Is ALSO GIVEN To GOD'S ELECT-CHOSEN-PREDESTINATED SAINTS, To Effectually WORK GOD-THE-HOLY-SPIRIT'S WORK OF ETERNAL SALVATION: SO AS TO TOTALLY RENDER THE FOREORDAINED ELECT-CHOSEN-PREDESTINATED SAINT INCAPABLE OF EVEN DESIRING TO "BOAST" OF HIS OWN SO-CALLED "SPIRITUAL", "PSYCHOLOGICAL" &-OR "PHYSICAL" (IF THERE'S SUCH A THING AS PHYSICAL) FAITH !

Coming From A SATANIC+VATICAN+ROMAN+"CATHOLIC"+CULTIC "Salvation By Works" Backround; I CAN TESTIFY THAT GOD'S BIBLICAL SALVATION ISN'T OF FALLEN MAN'S WORK OR EFFORT !

27

News Item7/22/11 3:05 PM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
John Yurich USA wrote:
there is a requirement for salvation because Jesus told Nicodemus that one must become Born Again in order to be saved.

..... the way to become Born Again is for one to pray to Jesus to become their Personal Lord and Savior.

Wrong again John!!

When Jesus was talking to Nicodemas HE also said;
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Jesus also states;
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
So the unsaved can "pray" until the cows come home, But saving can only be done by divine hands not mortal.

And don't forget;
4 According as *HE* HATH CHOSEN us in him *BEFORE* THE FOUNDATION of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having *PREDESTINATED* us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"

Predestinated chosen (elect) Christians are saved BY CHRIST not by human action or requests!

AND they do not follow the papal antichrist!

26

News Item7/22/11 2:49 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Oh, no, John Y., pushing more heretical teachings! Gil Rugh has some interesting comments about the Charismatic movement in his booklet, Division and Diversion. I might add that he has a sermon out pointing out the The Charismatics' Role in Ecumenism here on SA. One can doubt the Charismatic Chaos of the Pentecostals to even being Christian, like Catholics they reject Proper Biblical Interpretation. They depend on feelings and Romish laity depends on the inaccurate interpretation of their church.

As pointed on in the summary of the sermon, Salvation is Exclusively in Jesus Name "The healing of the man physically was a picture of the spiritual healing Jesus can do for any who will repent of their sin and believe in Him as their only Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ is exclusively the one who provides salvation...." Not Mary or the Romish Church, John Y.

25

News Item7/22/11 2:17 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Flidgard wrote:
John Yurich
There is NO "requirement" for salvation. Repeat NONE!!
Christ saves unworthy sinners. The elect are reconciled and saved by the death and life of Christ. (Rom 5:10)
As for the churches you list The Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox cannot read the Bible!
This is illustrated by the idolatrous practices and stupid relics which they worship and of course the blasphemous mass which they perform. These are satanic heretical practices therefore REAL Christians know NOT to attend these UnBiblical evil rituals.
As this article points out this Lutheran denomination describes the "papacy" as the antichrist which is correct. The various nefarious and satanic rituals such as idolatry of dead people, idolatry of relics such as bits of wood and bodies are pagan type rituals that only an organisation run by antichrist would participate in.
THIS IS NOT (R) NOT WHAT REAL BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS DO!! NOR DO THEY ATTEND SUCH!!
Yes there is a requirement for salvation because Jesus told Nicodemus that one must become Born Again in order to be saved. And according to Baptist and Pentecostal teaching the way to become Born Again is for one to pray to Jesus to become their Personal Lord and Savior.
24

News Item7/22/11 11:00 AM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
Bibliophile wrote:
Reformation theological novums
(1) Sola Scriptura.
(2) Sola Fide.
(3) Private interpretation.
It would appear that I was already writing an answer for you on the other thread. See below!

As for your # 3.
"Private interpretation"
God has already taken care of that. Quote;
"John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

The elect receive the Holy Spirit who works faith in their hearts and provides access to the truth in Scripture.

"Faith ALONE: this is proved as follows:

From the nature of faith itself, because faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 1:29). It is one of the fruits of the Spirit, and therefore cannot be meritorious (Galatians 5:22). Justifying faith terminates on Christ and in Christ, in his blood and sacrifice, and in the promises of God. Thus it involves trust and dependence, not on one's self, but objectively on Christ. Faith denies it own justifying value, and affirms the sole merit of that on which it trusts (Romans 3:25-26; 4:20-22; Galatians 3:26; Ephesians 1:12-13; 1 John 5:10)"

23

News Item7/22/11 10:29 AM
Bibliophile  Find all comments by Bibliophile
Flidgard wrote:
John Yurich
There is NO "requirement" for salvation. Repeat NONE!!
Christ saves unworthy sinners. The elect are reconciled and saved by the death and life of Christ. (Rom 5:10)
As for the churches you list The Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox cannot read the Bible!
This is illustrated by the idolatrous practices and stupid relics which they worship and of course the blasphemous mass which they perform. These are satanic heretical practices therefore REAL Christians know NOT to attend these UnBiblical evil rituals.
As this article points out this Lutheran denomination describes the "papacy" as the antichrist which is correct. The various nefarious and satanic rituals such as idolatry of dead people, idolatry of relics such as bits of wood and bodies are pagan type rituals that only an organisation run by antichrist would participate in.
THIS IS NOT (R) NOT WHAT REAL BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS DO!! NOR DO THEY ATTEND SUCH!!
What about these Reformation theological novums (Circa 1520)?

(1.) Sola Scriptura.
(2.) Sola Fide.
(3.) Private interpretation.

Can one be saved even if he subscribes to these unbiblical doctrines?

22

News Item7/22/11 9:56 AM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
John Yurich USA wrote:
And why should I leave the RCC and unite with a Protestant Church when church membership in any church(Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant or Fundamentalist Protestant) is not a requirement for salvation
John Yurich
There is NO "requirement" for salvation. Repeat NONE!!
Christ saves unworthy sinners. The elect are reconciled and saved by the death and life of Christ. (Rom 5:10)

As for the churches you list The Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox cannot read the Bible!

This is illustrated by the idolatrous practices and stupid relics which they worship and of course the blasphemous mass which they perform. These are satanic heretical practices therefore REAL Christians know NOT to attend these UnBiblical evil rituals.

As this article points out this Lutheran denomination describes the "papacy" as the antichrist which is correct. The various nefarious and satanic rituals such as idolatry of dead people, idolatry of relics such as bits of wood and bodies are pagan type rituals that only an organisation run by antichrist would participate in.

THIS IS NOT (R) NOT WHAT REAL BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS DO!! NOR DO THEY ATTEND SUCH!!

21

News Item7/22/11 5:30 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Jim Lincoln wrote:
John Y., apparently you've been talking to your brother, so when are you leaving the RCC?

Anyone who calls himself a "Vicar of Christ" is an anti-Christ!

And why should I leave the RCC and unite with a Protestant Church when church membership in any church(Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant or Fundamentalist Protestant) is not a requirement for salvation. There are saved individuals in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and Mainline Protestant Churches. Fundamentalist Protestant Churches are not the only churches where there are saved individuals. Why do you guys believe that church membership in a Fundamentalist Protestant Church is a requirement for salvation? The Bible states that there are many anti-christs but there will only be one Anti-Christ. Therefore no Pope has ever been the Anti-Christ because the Anti-Christ will not come onto the scene until the Great Tribulation Period.
20

News Item7/21/11 4:22 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
Nezan wrote:
"No wonder...Spurgeon, exclaimed...'ARREST THE POPE ON SUSPICION OF BEING THE ANTICHRIST!'" (EIPS)

"'The same line of proof which establishes that Christ is the promised Messiah, conversely applied, establishes that the Roman system is the predicted Apostasy. In the life of Christ we behold the CONVERSE of what Antichrist must be; and in the prophecy of the Antichrist we are shown the CONVERSE of what Christ must be and was. And when we place the Papacy between the two, and compare it with each, we find on the one hand, that it is the perfect CONVERSE of Christ as seen in His life; and on the other, that it is the perfect image of the Antichrist, as shown in the prophecy of him. WE CONCLUDE, THEREFORE, THAT IF JESUS OF NAZARETH BE THE CHRIST, THE ROMAN PAPACY IS THE ANTICHRIST.'"—Dr. J.A.Wylie

AMEN ! Nezan: I Know Some "Professing" U.S. Judeo-Christian "Protestant" Fundamentalist "Brethren" May Cringe &-Or Chagrin When I Quote Romanian Persecuted-Church "Prophet" DUMITRU DUDUMAN:

"THE 'SEA'-BEAST STRIKES (FORESEEN ON 1-21-95)

'I (DUMITRU DUDUMAN) SAW...A THRONE. THE POPE WAS ON THE THRONE, YELLING...LOUD...'I HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE POWER (BY SATAN) TO RULE THE EARTH AND FIGHT AGAINST THE PROTESTANTS, THAT I MAY OVERTAKE THEM.' " ! ! !

19

News Item7/21/11 3:07 PM
Nezan  Find all comments by Nezan
John Yurich USA wrote:
no Pope has ever been the ANTI-CHRIST
"No wonder that greatest of all English preachers, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, exclaimed when he read this Scripture passage, 'ARREST THE POPE ON SUSPICION OF BEING THE ANTICHRIST!'" (EIPS)

"'The same line of proof which establishes that Christ is the promised Messiah, conversely applied, establishes that the Roman system is the predicted Apostasy. In the life of Christ we behold the CONVERSE of what Antichrist must be; and in the prophecy of the Antichrist we are shown the CONVERSE of what Christ must be and was. And when we place the Papacy between the two, and compare it with each, we find on the one hand, that it is the perfect CONVERSE of Christ as seen in His life; and on the other, that it is the perfect image of the Antichrist, as shown in the prophecy of him. WE CONCLUDE, THEREFORE, THAT IF JESUS OF NAZARETH BE THE CHRIST, THE ROMAN PAPACY IS THE ANTICHRIST.'"
— Dr. J.A.Wylie

18

News Item7/21/11 2:49 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
John Y., apparently you've been talking to your brother, so when are you leaving the RCC?
Easton Dictionary wrote:
ANTICHRIST:
against Christ, or an opposition Christ, a rival Christ. The word is used only by the apostle John. Referring to false teachers, he says (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7), "Even now are there many antichrists." (1.) This name has been applied to the "little horn" of the "king of fierce countenance" (Dan. 7:24, 25; 8:23-25). (2.) It has been applied also to the "false Christs" spoken of by our Lord (Matt. 24:5, 23, 24). (3.) To the "man of sin" described by Paul (2 Thess. 2:3, 4, 8-10). (4.) And to the "beast from the sea" (Rev. 13:1; 17:1-18).
Anyone who calls himself a "Vicar of Christ" is an anti-Christ!
Charles H. Spurgeon wrote:
Christ did not redeem his church with his blood that the pope might come in and steal away the glory. He never came from heaven to earth,and poured out his very heart that he might purchase his people, that a poor sinner, a mere man, should be set upon high to be admired by all the nations, and to call himself God's representative on earth. Christ has always been the Head of the church.
17

News Item7/21/11 9:09 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John Yurich USA wrote:
The Bible states in the Book Of Revelation that the ANTI-CHRIST will not come onto the scene until the Great Tribulation Period. Therefore no Pope has ever been the ANTI-CHRIST. The Bible does indeed state that ther will be many anti-christs. But there will only be one ANTI-CHRIST who will claim to be Jesus and peform feats that the world will believe to be miracles.
There is no biblical designation for a person named "the" anti-Christ. There is, however, the son of perdition, aka Gog from the land of Magog which shall appear during the timeline you refer to.
16

News Item7/21/11 8:16 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Mike wrote:
John Yurich keeps posting something like this..."WELS is in error to state that the Pope is the ANTI-CHRIST because the Bible states that the ANTI-CHRIST will not come onto the scene until the time of the Great Tribulation Period."
Notice there is no specific text given for this statement.
The Bible states in the Book Of Revelation that the ANTI-CHRIST will not come onto the scene until the Great Tribulation Period. Therefore no Pope has ever been the ANTI-CHRIST. The Bible does indeed state that ther will be many anti-christs. But there will only be one ANTI-CHRIST who will claim to be Jesus and peform feats that the world will believe to be miracles.
15

News Item7/20/11 9:39 PM
Mike | PA  Find all comments by Mike
John Yurich keeps posting something like this..."WELS is in error to state that the Pope is the ANTI-CHRIST because the Bible states that the ANTI-CHRIST will not come onto the scene until the time of the Great Tribulation Period."

Notice there is no specific text given for this statement.

14

News Item7/20/11 8:35 PM
lapdog  Find all comments by lapdog
anti-christ........pre-christ who will also be against christ. Do yet, there have been many pre-christ throughout history.
13

News Item7/20/11 8:16 PM
Researcher  Find all comments by Researcher
Joe the Protestant wrote:
You might want to resarch Pope Innocent III (very inappropriate name)He had several French Monks killed for Street Preaching out of Bible texts. And when He said that the Pope was the final Authority, they said the Bible was their authority. Source: Christianity Through the Centuries. By Cairns
Could neither locate related quote(s) from cited book nor from general Google search, nor from Wikipedia about Pope Innocent III.

Also, please provide quotes from original sources referencing this alleged incident.

Thank you.

12

News Item7/20/11 7:59 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Researcher wrote:
Except for WELS, the 9 other Lutheran and Presbyterian denominations have removed this Antichrist doctrine from their websites/confessions.
Thus their members would concur with your point.
WELS is in error to state that the Pope is the ANTI-CHRIST because the Bible states that the ANTI-CHRIST will not come onto the scene until the time of the Great Tribulation Period.

Joe The Protestant:
Pope Innocent III was not the ANTI-CHRIST for the reason given above.

11

News Item7/20/11 6:36 PM
Joe the Protestant  Find all comments by Joe the Protestant
John Yurich USA wrote:
Therefore NO POPE HAS EVER BEEN THE ANTI-CHRIST. The Bible states that there are many anti-christs.
You might want to resarch Pope Innocent III (very inappropriate name)He had several French Monks killed for Street Preaching out of Bible texts. And when He said that the Pope was the final Authority, they said the Bible was their authority. Source: Christianity Through the Centuries. By Cairns
10

News Item7/20/11 5:51 PM
Researcher  Find all comments by Researcher
John Yurich USA wrote:
Therefore NO POPE HAS EVER BEEN THE ANTI-CHRIST.
Except for WELS, the 9 other Lutheran and Presbyterian denominations have removed this Antichrist doctrine from their websites/confessions.

Thus their members would concur with your point.

9
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