Pope cancels trip to Rome university after protests
Pope Benedict XVI has canceled his visit to Rome's secular La Sapienza university following a protest letter signed by 67 of 4,500 professors and complaints by thousands of students that he devalues science.
But the Vatican says the pope's views were distorted and taken out of historic context and that his speech will still be sent to the university even though the pontiff will not deliver it.
"It was considered opportune to skip the event," Vatican sources told the Associated Press.
Such a cancellation of a scheduled papal event is extremely rare, and the few times it has happened in recent decades, the Vatican cited security concerns. When news of the cancellation reached the campus on Tuesday, students in a political sciences hall broke into applause....
The Lone Ranger wrote: So scripture alone is off limits to Catholics or they are accused of taking things out of context when using the Bible to support what they believe. Is there something wrong with going to the Bible alone to get a Catholic doctrine? See, you guys cannot even let others play by your rules. Sounds similar to the behavior of Jims favorite apologists Ankerberg and Weldon.
Lone Ranger No! Going to the Bible to prove a Catholic Doctrine is not off limits. So go ahead and go to the Bible and see if you can prove....
From Catechism of the Catholic Church Officially Approved by Pope John Paul II
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
It seem the only thing you can truly prove about this statement from the Bible is to come to the conclusion the god the Roman Catholic Religion really worships is not the Only True and Living God, the God of the Bible, and if fact that Catholics along with Muslims worship a false god, who falsely claims to be the God of Abraham.
So scripture alone is off limits to Catholics or they are accused of taking things out of context when using the Bible to support what they believe. Is there something wrong with going to the Bible alone to get a Catholic doctrine? See, you guys cannot even let others play by your rules. Sounds similar to the behavior of Jims favorite apologists Ankerberg and Weldon.
Truth Seeker wrote: Michael... If you're going to read the Catechism, you should make sure ......
Truth Seeker(?) YOU HAVE CLAIMED that Catholicism is Scripturally SPOT ON. PROVE IT
Similarities between True Biblical Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, and Islam are irrelevant if Allah the god of Islam is a false god, and Mohammed, a demon possessed murderous pedophile is Allah's prophet.
Go ahead PROVE by Scripture that Muslims are not worshipping a false god but are somehow really worshipping the Only True and Living God, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB. If they are not then they really aren't worshipping the God of Abraham no matter how much they or others claim they are.
Hint: John 5:22,23 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Kind of hard to honor the Son when they claim their god, Allah, HAS NO SON.
As to worshipping a disfigured image of God...that kind of falls into idolatry making a "god" to suit fallen sinful man, a sin that God Himself says is a sin of those who hate Him.
Greetings! The amazing thing about Rome is not only do they take verses or statements out of context but develop entire doctrines out of nothing(Mariolotry and Purgatory, ie.) Can you imagine having a catechism that tells its adherents to devote themselves to a mere human being? Since they are unsaved I actually expect this but in devotion to Jesus Christ I am prepared to witness to any unbeliever whenever free time or any oppurtunity presents itself. Have a "grace day"! Btw I appreciate your comments(don't let this comment be a stumbling block; pray for humility). Phil. 2:4
If you're going to read the Catechism, you should make sure you are reading it in context. Taking things out of context will obviously cause ignorance on these matters. And you have ignored everything that is convenient for you to ignore. But, twisting the truth towards your own ends (otherwise known as deception...perhaps even lying) can be sinful, so I pray that you did not do this intentionally, but only in haste and bad research skills.
Please read the portions in the catechism following number 841. Basically read 841 thru at least 844.
You will see that 1) the similarities noted between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are that we all worship the God of Abraham. Ask a Jew, or a Muslim. They will agree. If you woship someone different, then you can explain to me how the God you worship is the same as the Christian God. But, the Catechism also points out that insofar as there are elements of truth in these other religions, they are to be seen as "a preparation for the Gospel," but it also says that these other religions disfigure the image of God by their "limitations and errors."
Look for yourself. The Church does not teach such off the wall things as you suggest.
Jim Lincoln wrote: as the Ian Paisley site pointed out, Purgatory, Catholic Created, Devil Driven, Man Maintained
Yep, Jim, you are right. It is man maintained, by men who wrote the Bible. Devil driven? No, because the devil didn't author the scriptures. Catholic Christian oxymoron? No. Ankerberg and Weldon Bible Christians? Well, they say they are, but they are also major hypocrites who also cannot abide by their own rules when they write their books about those whom they do not understand or refuse to understand. In one book they accuse Mormons of rejecting 2000 years of church history, but when Ankerberg and Co. write against Catholics, guess who is now rejecting 2000 years? There is no excuse for such behavior coming from supposed apologists and Bible Christians. It's a classic example of hypocrites on public display! It would be nice to get a detailed explanation of why they do this because it makes me question what they are really doing.
Non-Catholic sources? Perhaps if you want to call the Bible a non-Catholic source I could understand that. But for anyone to call the Catechism of the Catholic Church a non-Catholic source is ridiculous.
You've claimed your Church's teaching is spot on. PROVE IT
From Catechism of the Catholic Church Officially Approved by Pope John Paul II
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Let's see you must prove from Scripture something like Allah is Jehovah and that Allah is not a false god or that Muslims do not worship Allah. Then you must somehow prove it is not a wicked vile blasphemous sin to make Jehovah, the Only True and Living God out to be Allah who is a false god.
Then also you might attempt to prove from Scripture that Muslims who suppress the knowledge of the truth in unrighteousness denying who Christ is and what He has done somehow have eternal life when Scripture of couse would say those who do not have the Son do not have the life.
Michael Hranek wrote: Truth Seeker Oh! So are you claiming the offical teaching of the Roman Catholic Church that you worship the same god as the Muslims is spot on? And can be found in Scripture? [QUOTE}
Michael, First of all, it sound to me that your information about RCC beliefs comes mostly from non-catholic or non-dogmatic sources. Therefore, they cannot constitute actual Catholic teaching.
However, if you can provide me with some reference where the church dogmatically proclaimed for the belief of all Catholics that Allah is the same as the Christian God, please do so, and I would be happy to discuss this further.
The word itself comes from the old French purgatoire, from medieval Latin purgatorium, literally: place of cleansing. According to the Roman Catholic Catechism, issued with episcopal authority on the occasion of the 4th Plenary Council in 1937, purgatory is "...a place or state of punishment in the next life where some souls have to suffer for a time, because they are not yet fit to go to heaven."1
1. Roman Catholic Catechism, p.29, 1937 Australian Catholic Truth Society.
The Catholic Encyclopedia points out that, "...there still remains the temporal punishment required by Divine justice, and this requirement must be fulfilled either in the present life or in the world to come, i.e., in Purgatory. An indulgence offers the penitent sinner the means of discharging this debt during this life on earth."3
3. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol.7, p.783, article ‘Indulgences’.
If, as Truth Seeker says, 1 Cor. 3:15 & 1 Peter 1:7 are foundational verses for the RC doctrine of purgatory then the doctrine is DOA because as you pointed out they point to the time of Jesus' appearing as clearly stated in 1 Peter 1:7. Another couple passages which corrolate with these verses...
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thes 1:6-10)
For our God is a consuming fire. (Hbr 12:29).
... the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (1 Cor 3:13)
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. (Rev 14:13) to end of chapter.
Truth Seeker wrote: There is still some misunderstaning of actual Catholic teaching. But AntiVaticanist, Michael Hranek, Jim Lincoln.
This sounds more like words intended to wound and cause division rather than sincere dialogue for truth.
my 2 cents.
Truth Seeker Oh! So are you claiming the offical teaching of the Roman Catholic Church that you worship the same god as the Muslims is spot on? And can be found in Scripture?
Prove it!
Exodus 20:3-6 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation OF THEM THAT HATE ME; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
So do you like questions?
Is Allah a false god? Do Muslims worship this fasle god? To claim the True and Living God, the God of the Bible is Allah would be what?
Indeed, the Romish fable of Purgatory is undefined. As a matter of fact you do not know where it is but neither do you know what will happen, how long nor ABSOLUTELY assured you will ever get out.(angelfire.com) Talk about obvious man-made doctrine. Similar to the contradicting stands of the so-called church fathers are R.C. theologians on this doctrine. "One of the Catholic 'proof texts' for Purgatory has been 1 Corinthians 3:15, '...,yet so as by fire.' The Catholic Truth Society, PURGATORY, pg.7, Now this passage of St. Paul refers to the fire of judgement at the last day and cannot refer directly to Purgatory, which will then cease to exist..." By the way, angelfire.com and others have noticed that II Maccabees 12:46 is speaking of people who died because of the sin of idolatry(R.C.Theology=Mortal Sin), therefore they would have gone to HELL 'not purgatory'!
Paul Juris(saved ex Roman Priest)in, "The Other Side Of Purgatory", 1981, the magisterium, pope or councils have never officially defined the "fire of purgatory". So, do you know if it is real or metaphorical fire? Try non-existent!
All true believers are purified by the perfect sacrifice of the Lamb of God with full satisfaction. HEBREWS 1:3 I JOHN 2:2
lyn wrote: There's no 'holding tank' for those hung up in limbo while one bargains for their final destination. Perhaps the RCC could print up some 'get out of Purgatory free' cards to send along with lost loved ones.
Lyn, I want to clarify the RCC teaching on purgatory, because I can see a misconception here. But no worries, as it is common.
The church does not teach that purgatory is some kind of limbo or holding tank for souls to wait in until someone bails them out. Purgatory is actually the ante-room or foyer of heaven. People in Purgatory are on their way to heaven. The Catholic Catechism which defines actual Catholic belief, does not even describe Purgatory as a place. Rather, it is described as a process. The basis for this belief in a "purgation" before entering heaven is based on the Scriptures (1 Cor. 3:15 & 1 Peter 1:7) that speak of cleansing by fire. It is with the understanding that before we can enter the joy of heaven, there is cleansing required.
So, as you see, it's not a place of second chances, but rather the place where remaining sin and all of our imperfections are wiped away before we come into God's presence. A little different than what you were talking about.
Michael Hranek wrote: I know first had that the Roman Catholic Religion devalues the study of Scripture and ridicules those who do.
It is interesting that you say this. In my honest and prayerful study of the Scriptures, I found the Roman Catholic teachings to be spot on. And who, but my reformed baptist pastor, suggested that I should not be asking such questions, but believe his interpretation. In the Catholic church, I have found the complete opposite of what my protestant pastor told me about Catholics. They do love the Scriptures, and urge people to study them. I'm so glad that I looked at the Scriptures seeking truth rather than props for the biases I had been fed my whole life.
The fullness of the truth subsists in the Catholic Church.
However, I truly appreciate sincere comments from people like Lyn who are sincere. There is still some misunderstaning of actual Catholic teaching. But AntiVaticanist, Michael Hranek, Jim Lincoln. This sounds more like words intended to wound and cause division rather than sincere dialogue for truth.
Lance- you need to study the teaching of Christ on what happens when one dies, Luke 16:19-31, the unregenerate sinner, in this case the rich man, dies and goes to Hades. The poor man dies and goes directly to the bosom of Abraham {an expression used in the Talmud as a figure for heaven}. Another example is the thief on the cross, Christ specifically tells him, "Today you will be with me in paradise". In Revelation 20:13, 'the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.' There is no mention of 'with the exception of those who were bailed out by family'. When you die, your soul either goes to be with the Lord, {Only if you are born again according to GOD'S word, not any church doctrine}, or to the 'place of the dead' until the great white throne judgment. There's no 'holding tank' for those hung up in limbo while one bargains for their final destination. Perhaps the RCC could print up some 'get out of Purgatory free' cards to send along with lost loved ones.
Lance Eccles wrote: I don't think he does. Revelation and what science studies come from the same source. It would be wrong to devalue the study of what comes from God.
Lance Wow! I can hardly believe you wrote what you did. For one what is being called "science" the twisting and manipulating of evidence to promote the myth of Darwinian Evolution and falsely teach children there is no God simply cannot be said to come from God.
And it gets worse. As a former and never to be again Roman Catholic I know first had that the Roman Catholic Religion devalues the study of Scripture and ridicules those who do.
But then that is understandable as the prayerful honest study of the Holy Written Word of God exposes the Roman Catholic Religion to be a counterfeit of true Biblical Christianity redefining God and Christ to be something less than and different than who God and His Son Jesus Christ truly are (your late Pope JPII claimed in the Catechism you worship the same god as the Muslims, Allah would be a false god.) And the Catholic gospel is powerless to save sinners completely and forever as it denies the sufficiency of the completed work of Jesus Christ and substitues sacraments, your "Virgin", invents purgatory, etc.
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Dr. Alan Cairns | 8/3/2009
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One has to have to proper perspective of hell, 
