BALTIMORE ‚ÄĒ Benedict XVI will make his first visit to the USA as pope next year, going to the 9/11 Ground Zero site, addressing the United Nations and saying Masses at baseball stadiums in Washington and New York.
Nearly 300 bishops stood to applaud after the pope's U.S. representative, Apostolic Nuncio Archbishop Pietro Sambi, announced the plans Monday at the opening session of the three-day fall meeting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The visit, set for April 15-20, will coincide with Benedict's 81st birthday and the third anniversary of his papal election. As a cardinal, he visited the USA twice....
Savedbygrace, if by "antithetical to the reformed position" you mean "different from the reformed position", then I agree.
1. "Difficulties" are all manner of temptations. The elect may yield to temptation sometimes, but soon repent if they do.
2. No. The elect are those who (unknown to themselves) are sure to be saved. The non-elect are not the elect, but they can still avail themselves of the graces obtained through Christ's redemption in order to be saved.
Obviously I reject John Calvin's theory that God creates some people specifically for damnation.
By Your Standards, Not Elect wrote: By "matter" here I only meant that my question didn't turn on whether or not I was Catholic, wiccan, fundamentalist, or a cannibalist. It had more to do with how to take your statement that there seems only to by a remnant that understands everything correctly and it seemed to be those that read their Bibles, which seemed to imply that those who do are the elect, not the other way around. That is, election really has something to do with what you do (up to and including that you read your Bible). That's all.
BYS NE Somehow it seems you've gotten me confused with the Calvinists. I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian, I am a born again Christian, a Baptist, a former never to be again Roman Catholic.
So let me ask you again, are you a Roman Catholic?
The issue isn't Calvinism or Arminianism, the issue is Jesus Christ and whether or not a person knows Him and is known by Him. And of course one doesn't have to have a doctorate in theology to be saved but they do need to know the truth of Christ, what God Himself says in the Bible, not the made up lies of Tradition.
Even as Jesus Himself has said, 'Ye must be born again.'
Something that simply does not happen in infant sprinling.
Can you tell me how free in real terms is the "free will"?
Can a man freely choose not to sin in thought, word or deed before or after salvation?
I know that Spiritual and Abigail believe that man has a total free will and they have chosen not to sin in thought, word or deed after salvation, but I would like your Roman Catholic view on how free is free that you speak about in reality?
Free will means a lot of things to a lot of different people, from the extremes of a hyper Calvinist on one side to the perfect nature of a tongue speaking, holy spirit filled heart, mind and soul on the other side who are sinless.
Perhaps you can share your view as I know that free will is something you sincerely believe in as a means to get to heaven and avoid purgatory or hell.
1. Only God knows how much grace is dispensed to each individual. I doubt that (for his own reasons) he distributes evenly.
"but He ensures that the elect are saved."
1. This I can't answer well. He "ensures" the salvation of the elect person by pursuing him if he strays, providing him with the grace to overcome difficulties, yet at the same time not interfering with the person's free will.
2. The "elect" are those whom God has predestined for salvation. Yet (and I don't understand how), God does this without interfering with their exercise of free will. Although I don't believe in Irresistible Grace, the elect do not resist (or at least, not much).
The anti-christ pope should stay home where he is absolute ruler - on his acreage called Vatican City, which is a whore house of political, sexual and religious debauchery.
The USA is a Christian majority nation - not a Roman Catholic dominated nation. We reject the pope and his debauched priests who practice the sorcery of the mass, and who practice the demon worship of venerating and praying to the saints and the Queen of Heaven, whom they call "Mary".
Stay home popey. All of us should kick pumpkin heads down the streets of our cities with "pope" written on them....if he should show up on our hallowed shores.
By "matter" here I only meant that my question didn't turn on whether or not I was Catholic, wiccan, fundamentalist, or a cannibalist. It had more to do with how to take your statement that there seems only to by a remnant that understands everything correctly and it seemed to be those that read their Bibles, which seemed to imply that those who do are the elect, not the other way around. That is, election really has something to do with what you do (up to and including that you read your Bible). That's all.
Just saw your post and thought I would say that your comments of, "God gives everyone enough grace to be saved, but he ensures that the elect are saved." are almost right on point.
Actually, I was reading a sermon today on Galatians 2:21 and it says,
"Again: this grace that was so dear to God comes to us good cheap, we given nothing for it: the Lord will take nothing for it, we have nothing to give: the apostle doth not think it enough to say being justified by his grace; but he adds, being justified FREELY by his grace, (Rom.3:24), Whosoever will, let him take of the water of life FREELY, (Rev.22:17). Taking implies some freedom in it, but taking freely is a redoubling of the expression. This grace of God that is so dear to God, comes good cheap to us, it cost us nothing." (pg.9)
The sermon is the first one of 6 if you would like to read them:
savedbygrace wrote: How can those who do not belong to the elect still be saved?
I think I'm getting out of my theological depth.
God gives everyone enough grace to be saved, but he ensures that the elect are saved.
I suspect (just a personal opinion), that God also requires that the elect suffer great trials in this life. The fact that I have not been asked to suffer great trials means I am probably not one of the elect.
By Your Standards, Not Elect wrote: Does it matter if I am? I didn't think my question implied anything in particular.
BYS NE Sure it matters. I don't have to agree with anyone who has choosen to be in rebellion against Jesus Christ and against His Word but it still matters.
Because it matters to God, and anyone being truly born again of the Holy Spirit will care about the Father's business, which is that people hear of His Only Begotten Son who died for them on the cross, willingly shedding His blood for them and rose again in His own body that He might save them from their sins and that in Him they might know God's will for them that they might have the gift of eternal life.
It is a staggering thing that God who is absolutely Holy would care for sinners but He does. He cares who they are, what they do, what others do to them and where they will be in eternity, which for those who die unrepentant in their sins will be the eternal hell that they deserve, and for those who repent and believe in Jesus Christ (not just about as about everyone believes something one way or another about Him) eternal life.
Which makes the Truth of who He is that God reveals in the Bible, NOT the traditions of Catholicism, so important.
Some have pugnaciously referred to the reformed believers in comparison to Rome; Popedom absolutely abhors the doctrine of the elect! I honestly believe that most of the folks on here(both Arms and Calvs)are true believers and should be able to discuss dogmatically in a civil manner and besides the papacy actually hates both arms and calvs, ie., to state that you know that you have eternal life is the sin of presumption. Back to teaching my daughter. Have a "grace day"!
"Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" II Corinthians 9:15
Jan/2008: The Satanic-Vatican installs Their New "'Black'-Pope"-"Jesuit"-General in The Secreted/Occultic Walls of The Vatican.
*ALERT ! The Roman "[Black]Prince That Shall Come" is said to be preparing a 7-year covenant/agreement/pact with The Nation of Israel!
Feb/2008: The United States Presidential Primary Elections will Take Place.
April/2008: The "'White'-Pope"-"Joseph-RATzinger-Benedict-XVI" visits 911/"Ground-Zero" in New York and Then Personally Visits with President George W. Bush.
*ALERT ! It is said that Benedict Will Brief President Bush on The Future Concordat Between The Satanic-Vatican and The United States of America -- To be accomplished and/or consummated before The November/2008 General U.S. Presidential Elections!
Who U.S. Americans Elect in The Presidential Primaries of Feb/2008 will Face-Off in The Presidential General-Election of Nov/2008!
**ALARM ! A Pro-Satanic-Vaticanist President will only solidify U.S. Federal/National Control By The Satanic-Vatican's Globalist/Ecumenist Policies of Political/Religious--Ecclesiastical/Governmental Tyranny & Totalitarianism Over Our Once Constituional Democratic, Independent, Soverign Republic Known As The United States of America!
**ALARM ! How U.S. Citizens Vote in 2008 will be Very Serious!!!
Does it matter if I am? I didn't think my question implied anything in particular.
Michael Hranek wrote: BYS Not Elect Let me ask, are you a Roman Catholic? The issue isn't Calvinism or Arminianism, the issue is Jesus Christ and whether or not a person knows Him and is known by Him. Even as Jesus Himself has said, 'Ye must be born again.' Something that simply does not happen in infant sprinling.
Protestants since the Reformation, and you should say Christians since the New Testament Church. Agree on the following five principles.
A Christian believes that it is: Individual repentance, one cannot be born a Christian. It is Christ alone, no belief in works or membership in a particular human organization. Grace alone, Christ's grace is completely sufficient for our salvation -- again no church can dole it out. Faith alone, again, we cannot add to what God has given us, or Christ's sacrifice is meaningless. Scripture alone, you should see enough examples of organizations that Christians would consider cults, because they have extra biblical authority.
The above holds true if you are a Calvinist or Arminian, you do have to reject the Council Trent, though.
Of course one has to ask the question is "Catholic Christian -- an Oxymoron?"
My sincere apologies to sermonaudio; as it was brought to my attention that in a previous comment: I mentioned that the '"SEA"--BEAST' of REVELATION 13:1 had 'TWELVE-horns'=corresponding to the 'TWELVE-stars' of the EU FLAG-
Well, that information is NOT SO; as the "'SEA'-BEAST" of REVELATION 13:1 has "TEN-HORNS"=corresponding to the "TEN-KINGDOMS" (NATIONS, STATES, COUNTRIES, ETC.)" OF THE EUROPEAN CONFEDERACY of THE POLITICAL&RELIGIOUS ANTI-CHRIST & HIS FUTURE One-World/Globalist/Ecumenist/"New-World-Order".
*Note: Please DISREGARD my previous POST; as I do GLADLY give sermonaudio "managers" CONSENT/PERMISSION to DELETE it.
My sincere apologies for ANY disinformation that may have resulted from the aforementioned COMMENT and/or previous POST.
P.S.I however do ADAMENTLY stand on my PREVIOUS original COMMENT that the "'EARTH'-BEAST" of REVELATION 13:11 (THAT HAS TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB--BUT SPEAKS AS A DRAGON) IS NONE OTHER THAN THE "FALSE PROPHET" AND/OR WHITE-PAPACY (ROMAN "CATHOLIC" PAPACY) UNDER THE PRESENT WHITE-"POPE" & ANTI-CHRIST: JOSEPH (BENEDICT) RATzinger (XVI)!
Dan wrote: .... there is no excuse for ‚Äúprotestants‚ÄĚ and others who claim to be Christians to remain unaware of the hellishness of this pseudo-Christian organization ‚Äď the Roman Catholic ‚ÄúChurch‚ÄĚ. May their eyes be opened before they are all assimilated into this monster like the Borg of Star Trek.
Dan Not to be in the least bit flippant about the term "hellishness" that you used I still wanted to thank you for your choice of words that Christians would guard themselves against it, warn others of it, and fervently pray that Catholic people might be saved from it. Hellishness seems to be a very good choice of word when our hearts are broken over people who perish with a false belief of Jesus Christ and huge false belief regarding the free gift of God eternal life.