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Pete - are not Christians obliged to follow the law of the land according to scripture?
Raymond - No they wouldnt have been better going into government with Gerry Fitt. Lots have things have changed since then. THe Roman Catholic Church has been removed from the Irish Republic`s constitution as has the territorial claim on Northern Ireland. The consent principle in enshrined in law (no forced United Ireland, only with the consent of the people of Northern Ireland will it ever happen) nor is there direct interference from the Irish Republic in Northern Ireland affairs. All structures are local and accountable to the Northern Ireland executive and nothing happens unless all sides are agreed as each has a veto - it is the structures that are important as voters may well elect differently in forthcoming elections.
The writing in the May issue of the FPC monthly 'The Revivalist' by both Ian and Eileen Paisley in defence of what has been done in government really was the catalyst for Ian Paisley's departure as Moderator. One wonders what all the suffering since the mid seventies was for because he would have been better going into government with Gerry Fitt of the SDLP. The whole issue proves conclusively that he never was totally committed to his church because there was divided loyalty. The FPC makes great play of the Westminster Confession of Faith concerning the Papacy and always has done so however Chapter 23 Para 3 states 'The Civil Magistrate may not assume to himself the administration of the Word and Sacraments, or the power of the keys of the kingdom of Heaven' In other words, if a person is a civil magistrate, they should not be preaching, teaching or serving at the Lord's table. It is time for the Free Presbyterians to put these matters aright.
ba "presiding over an office which has opposed his own church in seeking to have the Sexual Orientation Regulations overturned."
Yes ba, we do still live with sin in the world and in those who live around us. As to the church "banning" sin - nuh don't think that's going to work. This whole nation is UK of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Dr. Paisley could run away from Stormont greetin, that those nasty sinners won't rule for Scripture. Do you expect them too?
The Christians could all emigrate to one "pure" island where the rarified air of their perfect sinless existence could sustain their dreams. But as someone once said if you find the "perfect" church on earth and join it, - It won't be perfect anymore. Thats reality.
This country doesn't accept the True Church anymore. BUT that's not all is it? They don't accept Scripture authority, God, Jesus or the Spirit.
Thus do we find the trial and trib of our Faith. And are you surprised ba?
Things are getting worse in various ways, - The End is Nigh.
Or at least it is nigher than it was yesterday. The reality check is that we must serve even here on these islands whilst Satan is in charge.
Dr. Paisley did as much as he could. "Or" as much as The Lord allowed. So will you and all his critics.
If the order comes from London or Brussels to close down Christian churches and burn Bibles will Ian Paisley just shrug his shoulders and say "I am against it but it is the Law so I will legislate to implement it."
I think you need to read the Book of Daniel (as does Big Ian) as to what a Christian is to do about legislating for issues like sodomy!
The FPC has spoken - we are Presbyterians so lets accept the will of the Church and its authority or is it really a Papacy instead?
Well done Rev Ivan Foster and all your supporters - shame on the rest!
What utter rubbish......love for the truth is what motivates any ministers I have heard on the subject. From what I have heard there was a united spirit among all those men on Friday - pity you do not share it!
Ian Paisley was called to preach and pray for revival - He still does - The Free Presbyterian Church can only partake of revival when they stop back biting the Lord`s honoured servant - REMEMBER the pit we have all been taken from by a Saviour who is not willing that ANY should perish including Loyalist and Republican terrorists and those who practice heterosexual and homosexual crimes against the sons and daughters of Adam created in the image of God. The Gospel is one of grace unfortunately there are too many who have forgotten the words of Christ "love your enemies". Those in the Free Church who have shown what can only be described as hate for Ian Paisley in their altercations via the world wide web should read 1st John Chapter 2 and reflect very carefully on the damage they are doing to the Lord`s cause. Ian Paisleys sermons on 090907 should be taken to heart by every free presbyterian minister many of them owe much to Ian Paisley Spiritually and materially He has the consolation that the Lord will not forget his labours of love even if many of the bretheren appear to have lost their powers of reason
However regarding the sodomy issue, Dr Paisley voted against the Sexual Orientation Legislation but it was still imposed on Ulster by the Westminster government, also the funding for Belfast Pride was already allocated by the former Westminster direct rule ministers - it would have been illegal to revoke it, subject to expensive court procedures (wasting tax payers money) with no chance of winning that case - so in reality it is yet to be seen how this issue will be dealt with by Christian politicians in the DUP. Again the first minister and Deputy First Minister Office were defendants in the case brought by the Christian Institute (partly funded by the Free P`s) - again that is an obligation in law for a government office to defend current legislation - not to do so would be illegal - similarly more such legislation is to come in order to comply with European Union legislation which has supremacy over UK / northern Ireland law. What is to be done here? I truly do not know.
I read pete's comment about dr.paisley and had to laugh at a so called informed statement coming from an american who does not live in our province he obivously gets his information/disimformation from the papist backed media of the united states. but its the usual american knowall comment which comes from a country which spawns somuch sodomites and and apostates unto the rest of the world.
To those who think a minister of the gosple should support sodomy,gambling,and putting into joint power the leader of a terrorist group who gave orders that many woman children and men should die,please say why they think it is right about what Doc P is doing. The FPC and its modorator have attacked many other ministers and churches in the past for what they now find they cannot or are unwilling to do ie separate from those who arn't able to stand for christian morals decence. If what Doc P is right,then it was right in 1974(sunningdale),and he has been wrong for thirty years. I can't see the free church ever protesting again as they have now ministers who are willing to kick the gosple to the kerb for politics. I wish the free chuch well,but have to say that if they don't deal with those ministers,then there is only one way they are going,and thats the way of the other ecumenical and apostate and compromisers. 2 COR 6-17
I am glad he has stepped down. One of the sad things is the spin being put on it from the DUP spokesmen that somehow this was a reaction to a minority within the FPC. Anyone who was at the meeting testifies that he stepped down because he knew there was no hope of him being elected as moderator.
Can Christians not tell the truth for one time in the sordid mess. The FPC should have dealt with this before it got to the point of Ian Paisley funding sodomy parades, metting RC Bishops, opening Ecumenical Churches in Lurgan, sending his lawyers to uphold sodomy rights in the High COurt against the FPC.
This is a good start, but it needs to be completed. Let us hope this humiliation for Dr Paisley will lead him to see he is outside of the Will of God.
The decision of Rev. Dr Paisley solves nothing. The fact remains that he is an ambassador for Christ and minister of the gospel who is presiding over an office which has opposed his own church in seeking to have the Sexual Orientation Regulations overturned. A deacon in his church, Mr Poots presides as a minister of DCAL which funded the gay pride march where marchers carried placards saying "Jesus is s f*g". Rev. Dr Paisley and Rev. Mr McCrea have sworn to promote "Equality" as part of their oath of office. "Equality" in the UK includes the promotion of homosexual rights. In carrying out his civic offices Rev Dr Paisley has abjectly failed to speak out against the immoral legislation or call for an end of ending of the gay pride march. This does not alter my views about the wrongness of a Christian (minister or otherwise) being in Partnership (forced or otherwise) with murderers and their apologists. The FPC should not have forced him to stand down as moderator. Instead they should have investigated whether his conduct as first minister required discipline. If it did, he should have been disciplined in accordance with the WCF. (the FPC do subscribe to the WCF). If he did nothing wrong he should have been allowed to stay as Moderator. This is a sad day all round.
Has the Free Presbyterian Church made its position clear? What does it believe about its members funding Sodomite groups? Does it stand by its 1998 statement that it is "unscriptural" for unrepentant terrorists to be in government? What are we to make of the suggestion on the News Letter (Northern Ireland) website that Dr Paisley in an interview on Saturday 8th September said he was given a standing ovation at the end of the Presbytery meeting? Is it not time for the Free Presbyterian Church to simply state what the scriptures say on these issues, rather than try to patch together compromises in order to avoid a split in the denomination?
jimni - your comment regarding funding of sodomy reverberates more with me than power-sharing - not all Sinn Feiners are murderers so I cannot see how scripture we can judge a diverse grouping of people all as murderers, especially now they have changed stance and now support the State and the police and courts of law.
Albert I can kind of sense the feeling of betrayal that you must have in this matter.
Only Jesus Christ can give us the grace, the filling of the Holy Spirit and the leading we so desperately need in these perilous times we are living in.
May He grant you in your life the grace which none of us deserves that you would be a vessel unto His glory and have fruitful labor in the harvest despite all the confusion and compromise that is going on in "Christian" society.
though dr. paisley will no longer be moderator he will still be a minster of the church and first minster of northern ireland and all the baggage that brings at the same time. is the church really saying its ok to be in government with terrorists and be responsible for funding sodomite groups providing you are not the moderator and just a minister or can we see a statement calling for all office bearers in the church to withdraw from this wicked government.
Indeed, Albert seems full of vitriol and bitterness - where is the peace of God in that? We are ALL sinners, everyone saved or unsaved and will continue to be sinners this side of death. Equally if Albert is looking for a perfect Church / Denomination then he will be sorely disappointed this side of death. Love thy neighbour - not every marxist sinn feiner is a murderer or terrorist and I see no scripture that says we should judge groupings of people else we could vote for no party as all parties are full of "unrepentant sinners" and God sees no difference between an unrepentant terrorist / murders or an unrepentnant adulterer does he?
I would like to congratulate the pastors & elders of the Free Church for their wisdom, regarding the urgent matter of Paisley stepping down from a leadership role within their Church. Truly, it was a good day for the free church, 1. it has stopped the mouths of those critics who accused the FPC of having double standards, including myself, who cannot point the finger any more at the FPC, 2. they have regained their separatist position. Lastly, I think it's time now to break from the DUP who have many members from various Church's who do not hold to the reformed Theology. Sadly, paisley said it was wonderful about the outcome of the meeting, maybe he should have took this decision a long time ago, about him stepping down from leadership of the FPC.