The Anglican Church has introduced a revised version of its baptismal service that replaces language deemed ‚Äúinaccessible‚ÄĚ to unchurched people. In particular, the new ceremony removes promises that parents and godparents had previously made to repent of sin and to ‚Äúreject the devil.‚ÄĚ The archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, supports the change.
Even though attendance at British Anglican congregations is generally quite low, many unchurched parents still wish to have newborns baptized. ‚ÄúIn some instances,‚ÄĚ the Anglican Liturgy Commission notes, ‚Äúthere are few people present [at a baptism] who have any real understanding of the Church‚Äôs language and symbolism.‚ÄĚ
The current liturgy, which dates to 1998, has Anglican ministers ask parents if they ‚Äúrepent of the sins that separate us from God,‚ÄĚ as well as renounce the devil and ‚Äúrebellion against God.‚ÄĚ The new text simply asks them, on behalf of...
John for JESUS wrote: I don't believe the Holy Spirit enables people to understand the gospel by making them spiritually alive first. I believe people (in general) can understand the preaching of the gospel in their natural state
I listened to a conversation my son had with his father this morning and he was saying that. I don't believe ritual baptism saves, I do believe it was a command of Christ to receive water baptism consistent with ritual baptisms of the OT. Holy Spirit baptism saves. Water baptism however if obeyed as a command of Christ does bring with it the influence of the Holy Spirit but not in a saving way without an effectual gospel call and repentance and faith.
I don't know your background but the way my son thinks as regards what you said (in part) is the assumption that all children on earth have been blessed to be raised in a Christian home and they all know what he has learned by the assistance of the Spirit of God (but he takes the credit and gives not the glory to GOD at this time). They don't. Ye must be born again. Heb. 6 is not talking about born again believers but covenant children or circumcised Jews in the visible Church. They believe but not unto salvation because: Ye must be born AGAIN. Original sin is
All 5 points wrote: Are you an Arminian Baptist? Not meant to be anything more than a clarification and classification of what you believe so I don't get more confused then I already am, concerning who believes what on this forum. Religious pluralism cause me to mourn
No, I'm not an Arminian Baptist. I'm not Arminian because I don't believe the Holy Spirit enables people to understand the gospel by making them spiritually alive first. I believe people (in general) can understand the preaching of the gospel in their natural state and as a result of faith they become alive in Christ. I don't believe that anyone saved can become unsaved. I believe in eternal security.
I'm different than baptist in that I don't believe in a ceremonial washing. I believe baptism saves.
John for JESUS wrote: All 5... I know that. I wasn't addressing you personally. I was making the comment that baptism saves because of this being an article about baptism.
Are you an Arminian Baptist? Not meant to be anything more than a clarification and classification of what you believe so I don't get more confused then I already am, concerning who believes what on this forum.
John for JESUS wrote: And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.‚Äô (Acts 22:16 NKJV) Saul was to wash away his sins through baptism by calling on the name of the Lord. It doesn't say he was baptized through immersion in water.
John for JESUS wrote: There is also an antitype which now saves us‚ÄĒbaptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (I Peter 3:21 NKJV) Baptism now saves us.
If you mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit and not water baptism, then we are united to Christ in His death and resurrection by the same Spirit. Rom. 1:3-4 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
The Holy Spirit was promised by Christ to come after his resurrection. He would not leave his Church as orphans without the necessary provision of all that was necessary for their salvation.
There is also an antitype which now saves us‚ÄĒbaptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (I Peter 3:21 NKJV)
John for JESUS wrote: Whatever that means! In light of seeing unbelievers were baptized, I'm not sure. It is possible that believers were supposed to be baptized also. Then it would be required of Christ to obey to remain righteous.
Christ could not cease at anytime to be God not after the Incarnation or before or forever??? I can't respond to you now. I'll attempt another time, Lord willing.
All 5... Thank you, I didn't know how to do that before. ----- You said:
I believe that John was anointing Him as King-Priest after the order of Melchizedek as the Spirit also came upon Him to anoint Him for Ministry. Jesus Christ was the God-man and the holy, harmless, undefiled Lamb of God, he had no need of repentance. He had the Spirit without measure. But John was introducing to Israel their King Priest that was what Isaiah said John was to do; prepare the way for the King of Israel. What don't you agree with in the above?
I can't answer for b.rith, but I don't agree because the Bible doesn't say so anywhere. In fact, it says Jesus did it to fulfill all righteousness. Whatever that means! In light of seeing unbelievers were baptized, I'm not sure. It is possible that believers were supposed to be baptized also. Then it would be required of Christ to obey to remain righteous.
@J4J go to the select catagory on the SA News and look for calvinism and it is the second story listed. B.Rith didn't answer my question, I'll not conjecture why.
I have prayed for you because in one of your posts you seemed to indicate an appreciation for other's prayers which caught my attention. I do not think it to my commendation but to the GOD who hears my prayer. It was the first time I felt lead to post anything to you. There was one other portion of Scripture I considered but I am not interested in a debate, as it is part of the works of the flesh. Scriptural argument is different, but I'm a woman so I try to share what has helped me.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: The self-righteous may have disagreed about their personal need for repentance, but they had no quarrel with John's method of symbolic cleansing. Otherwise, surely the religious leaders would have had him stoned as a false prophet. http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v02-n10/baptism The jews viewed it as a jewish baptism
Thank you for the info. I would disagree with one point (and I haven't been to the link yet, so that might clarify), it seemed like some Jews did quarrel about John's baptism. What do you think?
Then there arose a dispute between some of John‚Äôs disciples and the Jews about purification. (John 3:25 NKJV)
Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And He said to them, ‚ÄúGo into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:15, 16 NKJV)
Doesn't that prove a believer must believe and also be baptized in order to be saved? It does to me!
From all of the foregoing, we see that the use of water to symbolize cleansing and consecration is very much a Jewish concept, and a very ancient one at that. Because of this, when the Jewish prophet John (Yochanon ben Zechariah) came upon the scene, the Jews of his day saw nothing pagan or wrong in his demands that people repent of sin and be symbolically cleansed in the Jordan River. John's title, "Baptist" (literally baptizer), comes from the Greek verb baptidzo, which carries the same meaning as the Hebrew root taval: to wash by dipping or plunging in water. John's message, though not a popular one, was in keeping with what all the other Jewish prophets proclaimed. He preached God's impending judgment, warning that Israel must repent and be spiritually renewed because the coming of the Messiah was at hand. The self-righteous may have disagreed about their personal need for repentance, but they had no quarrel with John's method of symbolic cleansing. Otherwise, surely the religious leaders would have had him stoned as a false prophet.