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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/29/2014
Choice News MONDAY, AUG 19, 2013  |  146 comments
Presbyterian Church (USA) drops In Christ Alone from hymnal

An extraordinary dispute has arisen over a lyric contained one of the most beloved contemporary Christian hymns of the modern-day Church, "In Christ Alone".

According to Bob Smietana of USA Today, the committee putting together a new hymnal for the Presbyterian Church (USA) dropped the popular hymn because the song's authors refused to change a phrase about the wrath of God.

He said that the original lyrics say that "on that cross, as Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied."

The Presbyterian Committee on Congregational Song wanted to substitute the words, "the love of God was magnified." ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 146 user comment(s)
News Item8/26/13 8:05 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
can you see wrote:
..
I am sticking to the Word of God.
...
It is sadly, not hard to disprove you own statement. You look through all the post in response to mine and look for the Scripture quoted to back up your position and there is NONE. Remember, the Bible states, whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God. By the grace of God, I and many in this forum sing hymns for the glory of God.
Many have been far more eloquent in the defense of singing of hymns. You say you are sticking to the Word of God. GREAT!! Where in the Word of God is the condemnation of singing hymns? Surely there would be at least ONE verse that condemns such a practice. Surely there is at least ONE verse that says that ONLY the content of the book of Psalms is acceptable for songs. You haven't even addressed the verses of Scripture that have been given that are a contradict to your view point.
Alas, it must be said of those who hold to your position,
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" May God have mercy on you.

Any knowledge of truth I have is all to the praise of my Lord Jesus, I can only pray that God would grant you the blessing of extolling in song our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!

126

News Item8/26/13 4:54 PM
How sad  Find all comments by How sad
can you see wrote:
How sad the poor Baptists must ditch the Old Testament to qualify their ceremonies, rites and entertainment at church.
Even Jesus didn't do that.
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
"These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
Another Presby liar. Baptists do not ditch the OT. We recognise its place as only preparatory to the fuller and plainer revelation of the NT, which you wish to ditch for the types and shadows of the OT.

When by singing the Psalms, which was NOT the OT praise book, do you ever use the name of Jesus? When do you ever sing of the glory of his work on Calvary? When do you ever claim any of the precious promises he left us? When do you specifically praise him, or the Holy Spirit?

You want a deformed worship, not a reformed worship and that's, as I've said before, because you don't understand biblical hermeneutics.

Shame on you for your bigoted blindness.

As I said before you are sectarian, but no biblicist!!

125

News Item8/26/13 4:30 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
I notice that the anonymous Presbys are trying to fight their corner again without any scripture references. I notice also that as usual they are telling lies about Baptists.

They are shifty characters who keep changing moniker so that they are not accountable, and to make it difficult to debate with them. Oh sure, I know all about this, your subterfuge is well noted.

I'm amazed that Presbys are ashamed of what they believe, or they would post up their name and stick with it.

I notice that all the Baptists, or Baptist-type believers, stick to their moniker - well done chaps! Chocks away, and let 'em have it.

I will not interact with moniker-changers. I would rather debate with genuine people who are unashamed of their beliefs (like JfJ) who, although I disagree with him on nearly everything, I do respect because of his consistency.

Och aye, why am I telling these things?

Just sayin'.

124

News Item8/26/13 4:14 PM
can you see  Find all comments by can you see
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
I see you ignoring the many Scriptures
I see you ignore an entire book of the Word of God. Shame! But that is the way of so many in the denominations isn't it. You carry on singing the uninspired and ignoring God's inspired praise written for God's purpose which you also ignore. Then you can identify with the Liberals Anglicans Episcopalians Romans Methodists etc etc etc. Ask your self the question, "Are you really praising God?" Or has the Lord turned a deaf ear to those who reject His Holy Scriptures?

I am sticking to the Word of God.
Pity so many of you cannot confess that fact.

________

How Sad wrote:
hermeneutic of the Presbys that there was no change between the testaments.
How sad the poor Baptists must ditch the Old Testament to qualify their ceremonies, rites and entertainment at church.

Even Jesus didn't do that.
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

"These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

123

News Item8/26/13 12:39 PM
How sad  Find all comments by How sad
How sad and pathetic to embrace a view which prevents us from glorying in the finished work of Christ. Why must we sing only of the prospect of his coming? Why must we not name him? Etc

This is just another product of the flawed hermeneutic of the Presbys that there was no change between the testaments.

They cannot even justify their view that this was the OT praise book. Many of the songs in the Psalms were nothing to do with Temple worship!!

As with baptism we'll be bombarded with quotes from their theologians but nothing substantive from the Bible.

The Presbys are good sectarians but very poor biblicists!!

122

News Item8/26/13 12:16 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Psalms Only wrote:
You have yet to provide one jot or tittle which commands or even suggests the Christian is to discard the Book of Psalms which God wrote for a purpose - THE PURPOSE WAS THE PRAISE OF GOD...
I will not answer your baseless questions.

I see you ignoring the many Scriptures I have used and that is despite the fact that you cannot produce ONE that backs up your flawed premise. Again, if you start with a flawed premise, your conclusions are of necessity flawed also. I also note you ignored the point made by Michael Hranek 8/25/13 1:47 PM | Endicott, New York, maybe there is a pattern here, just make false accusations and don't respond to the proofs that show your position to be flawed. May God open your understanding to the Word of His truth and may you be one of those we find in Revelation 5 singing the praises of our blessed Redeemer.

121

News Item8/26/13 12:03 PM
It's all clear now  Find all comments by It's all clear now
SteveR wrote:
I do, all Christians are called to. However, it doesnt surprise me you dont
How d'you explain your ignorance of the bible and your love of Romanism?
120

News Item8/26/13 10:24 AM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
You have YET to give a verse
You have yet to provide one jot or tittle which commands or even suggests the Christian is to discard the Book of Psalms which God wrote for a purpose - THE PURPOSE WAS THE PRAISE OF GOD.

Why do you discard the Praise of God to replace it for the words of sinners?

Why do you insist that the believers should ditch the Word of God in favour of the words of sinners?

Why do you cast away God's Psalms of praise to sing from other books when there is no command or authority to do so?

Why do you reject the work of God to replace it with the work of man. Are you a devout Arminian? A DIY salvationist?

Why do you insist that believers are to use Uninspired hymns in replacement of the inspired and ordained praise of God.

Why do you attack Scriptures like this.
Why do you attack God?

What is your true purpose in rejecting God and His Bible in this way?

Why must you add to Scripture in contradiction to the command of God?

Why do you take away the psalms from Scripture in contradiction to the command of God?

Why do you disobey the Bible?
Why do you disobey Christ?

Rev 22:19 if any man shall take away ...
God shall take away his part out of the book of life

119

News Item8/26/13 8:40 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
1300 characters limits my answer so here are some references for you to check out:
Exodus 15:1,21
Numbers 21:17
Judges 5:3
II Samuel 22:50
I Chronicles 16:23
II Chronicles 23:13
II Chronicles 29:30
Psalm 7:17
Psalm 9:2
Psalm 9:11
Psalm 13:6
Psalm 21:13
Psalm 27:6
Psalm 33:3
Psalm 47:6,7
Psalm 61:8
Psalm 65:13
Psalm 66:2,4
Psalm 68:4,32
Psalm 71:22,23
Psalm 89:1
Psalm 95:1
Psalm 98:5
Psalm 104:33
Isaiah 23:15
Isaiah 38:20
Isaiah 42:10,11
Isaiah 65:14
Jeremiah 20:13
Romans 15:9
I Corinthians 14:15
Hebrews 2:12
Revelation 15:3
There you go a partial list, ALL of the verses encouraging singing NONE of them command it must be a psalm. You have YET to give a verse that tells us not to sing hymns, I actually wonder at the heart of the redeemed that cannot sing praises about and to his/her blessed Redeemer. God richest blessings, enjoy the Bible study.
118

News Item8/25/13 8:23 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Psalms Only wrote:
God only wrote ONE praise book...
1300 characters limits my answer so here are some references for you to check out:
Exodus 15:1,21
Numbers 21:17
Judges 5:3
II Samuel 22:50
I Chronicles 16:23
II Chronicles 23:13
II Chronicles 29:30
Psalm 7:17
Psalm 9:2
Psalm 9:11
Psalm 13:6
Psalm 21:13
Psalm 27:6
Psalm 33:3
Psalm 47:6,7
Psalm 61:8
Psalm 65:13
Psalm 66:2,4
Psalm 68:4,32
Psalm 71:22,23
Psalm 89:1
Psalm 95:1
Psalm 98:5
Psalm 104:33
Isaiah 23:15
Isaiah 38:20
Isaiah 42:10,11
Isaiah 65:14
Jeremiah 20:13
Romans 15:9
I Corinthians 14:15
Hebrews 2:12
Revelation 15:3

There you go a partial list, ALL of the verses encouraging singing NONE of them command it must be a psalm. You have YET to give a verse that tells us not to sing hymns, I actually wonder at the heart of the redeemed that cannot sing praises about and to his/her blessed Redeemer. God richest blessings, enjoy the Bible study.

117

News Item8/25/13 5:34 PM
Psalms Only  Find all comments by Psalms Only
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
"Therefore whether you eat or drink or WHATSOEVER you do, do all to the glory of God."(I Corinthians 10:31)
Your turn
God only wrote ONE praise book.

It seems very simple to me that God wrote the Book I as a believer obey God.

God wrote other books in the Bible.
But there is NO command of God to sing them.

Psalm 95:2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalm 105:2 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.

Amen.

Psalm 143:7 HEAR ME speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.
8 CAUSE ME to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee.
9 DELIVER ME, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me.
10 Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
11 QUICKEN ME, O LORD, for thy name's sake: for thy righteousness' sake bring my soul out of trouble.
12 And of thy mercy CUT OFF mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant.
Amen.

116

News Item8/25/13 5:04 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
SteveR wrote:
I do, all Christians are called to. However, it doesnt surprise me you dont
You reckon all Christians are called to meditate on the law day and night? For what purpose?

Galatians 3:22-25 KJV
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I guess if you yourself keep meditating on the law day and night, you must be incredibly convicted of sin, being a law-breaker and all. That's all the law can do for you, convince you that you are a sinner. The law can do nothing else but lead you to Christ for forgiveness, so that you can be justified by faith alone in Christ alone by God's grace alone.

The OT saints did not have the revelation we have today, so why not write some hymns based upon grace rather than law, upon Christ rather than bulls and goats and the ashes of an heiffer?

115

News Item8/25/13 4:34 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Lurker I have to agree with you, that both songs and sermons of apostate churches contain error, one example would be that of the Romish song Ave Maria -- Hail Mary? (PDF)

New songs are ok q.v.,
Psalms 33:3:
3Sing unto him a new song; Play skilfully with a loud noise.

Psalms 40:3:
3And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: Many shall see it, and fear, And shall trust in Jehovah.

Psalms 96:1:
1Oh sing unto Jehovah a new song: Sing unto Jehovah, all the earth.

Psalms 98:1:
1A Psalm. Oh sing unto Jehovah a new song; For he hath done marvellous things: His right hand, and his holy arm, hath wrought salvation for him.

Psalms 144:9:
9I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: Upon a psaltery of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.

Psalms 149:1:
1 Praise ye Jehovah. Sing unto Jehovah a new song, And his praise in the assembly of the saints.

Isaiah 42:10:
10Sing unto Jehovah a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth; ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein, the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.---ASV

Christian new songs should be about Christ

114

News Item8/25/13 2:50 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Michael Hranek wrote:
Especially when it is safe to say there is a gross HYPOCRISY to demand "Pslams Only" when it comes to singing in church but allow your "preachers" to deliver sermons COMPOSED BY HUMANS in your alls meetings as opposed to just reading Scripture which IS indeed inspired.
That's an excellent point, Michael. The same line of thought could be expanded to include (borrowing a catchy phrase from Presby ) "sinners compositions" of uninspired confessions of faith, catechisms, commentaries, systematic theology, etc,.

Hands down, infinately more error is absorbed as truth by what comes across pulpits than by what songs are sung.

Seems like our PO friends are straining gnats while swallowing camels, IMHO, of course.

113

News Item8/25/13 1:47 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Repeat wrote:
Still waiting for the uninspired hymn users to provide us with the authority for ditching God's ordained praise in the book of Psalms in favour of using sinners compositions from the 17th/18th century.
Repeat
Are you really that intelligent to not know slanting your question as you have makes it essentially worthless/meaningless for anyone to attempt to answer and discuss Biblically?

Those of us who use songs, hymns and spiritual songs and not the Psalms exclusively are not advocating ditching the Psalms as so much of what we sing comes from them.

AND Likewise we have Biblical Authority in studying to present ourselves approved unto God workmen who need not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of Truth, to choose to use or not use what men have written (or preach) _ those songs that are Biblical, Praise God we can use them and if not to set them aside, as we will answer to the Lord Jesus Christ NOT to any Psalms Only "POPE" either man or woman.

Especially when it is safe to say there is a gross HYPOCRISY to demand "Pslams Only" when it comes to singing in church but allow your "preachers" to deliver sermons COMPOSED BY HUMANS in your alls meetings as opposed to just reading Scripture which IS indeed inspired.

112

News Item8/25/13 12:57 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Repeat wrote:
Still waiting for the uninspired hymn users to provide us with the authority
...
Here is your Scriptural authority to use hymns, are you ready..."Therefore whether you eat or drink or WHATSOEVER you do, do all to the glory of God."(I Corinthians 10:31)

Your turn, you still have NO verse given that the psalms are the only acceptable form of songs, unless you are saying the verses I referenced are not inspired???

Now because I can sing hymns for the glory of God, you need a verse that forbids it.

The thing is your whole premise is NOT from the Bible, so claiming II Timothy 3:16 is not a feasible defense for your position. My position has been on Scripture, still waiting for you to back your position up with it. God bless!

111

News Item8/25/13 11:36 AM
Repeat  Find all comments by Repeat
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
How about these verses. Exodus 15:1, Numbers 21:17; Judges 5:3; I Chronicles 16:23,33 Job 35:10 and Revelation 15:3.
Still waiting for the uninspired hymn users to provide us with the authority for ditching God's ordained praise in the book of Psalms in favour of using sinners compositions from the 17th/18th century.

God's purpose in providentially and gracefully providing His followers with the Bible including the Psalms was to bring them into likemindedness with Christ Jesus. To teach sound doctrine. To help us reach into the divine mind.

Ups wrote:
that God only accepts psalms as acceptable songs in worship
God ONLY wrote ONE Bible.
God ONLY wrote ONE praise Book.

You have absolutely zero authority to authorise human uninspired compositions to replace the Word of God.

It is very revealing that the RCC's the Anglicans, the Liberals and the JW's worship in the same way as you hymn singers do.

By your premise of replacing the Book which God wrote by a human composition how many other books of the Bible do you replace?

Do you know WHY God wrote the Bible?
Do you understand inspiration and why God gives it existence? 2Tim 3:16.

110

News Item8/25/13 3:49 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Psalms 33:1-3 KJV
1 Rejoice in the LORD, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright.
2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

It must be very awkward to sing these words while believing in "no instruments" and no "new songs" and "keep the noise down, please". I don't know how they can do it.

Mike wrote:
Red cover? Red cover? Everyone knows God wouldn't use a red cover. Ask P.O.
Black suits, black Bible, black alter cloth, black communion wine, black psalter. No wonder the PO churches are so despondent, and dare not even grin for fear of being recorded in the elder's black book.
109

News Item8/24/13 7:45 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
AMEN BROTHER! I favour the "Christian Hymns" for its adherence to the biblical doctrines of free and sovereign grace. However, I will be very happy to also sing for hours from the "Sacred Songs and Solos" or the "Redemption Hymnal" which, having a red cover, already speaks of the precious blood of Christ, our glorious Saviour and Lord.
US, great proof texts!
Red cover? Red cover? Everyone knows God wouldn't use a red cover. Ask P.O.
108

News Item8/24/13 4:31 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
Unprofitable Servant
John UK Wales
BUT since the subject of using Scripture aright has come up I have to appreciate you too Christopher000, JPW and several others who post here on SermonAudio in that you demonstrate a growing obdience to the commandment of the Lord Jesus Christ, that we love one another!
I simply cannot see us tramping off to Mass or some super sophisticated Psalms Only service but I believe we would have no problem singing together for hours of our love for Jesus Christ who died and shed His blood for us, and sitting listening intently to hear His word preached and then praying at the alter for one another and those we so long to see come to salvation...things like that!
Why! We may even SHOUT! AMEN! and PRAISE GOD! PRAISE GOD! and not have to apologize or explain why we would do such an unsophisticated thing.
AMEN BROTHER! I favour the "Christian Hymns" for its adherence to the biblical doctrines of free and sovereign grace. However, I will be very happy to also sing for hours from the "Sacred Songs and Solos" or the "Redemption Hymnal" which, having a red cover, already speaks of the precious blood of Christ, our glorious Saviour and Lord.

US, great proof texts!

107
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