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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  7/6/2015
Choice News SUNDAY, JUL 14, 2013  |  178 comments  |  6 commentaries
Zimmerman found not guilty of murder in Trayvon Martin's death
When he learned his fate, a quiet Zimmerman had little visible reaction. His face was mostly expressionless. He turned and shook the hand of one of his attorneys before sitting back down, only openly smiling after court was adjourned. His parents, Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, were seated nearby, but Martin's parents were not in the courtroom.

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara said a short time later that he and his team were "ecstatic" with the verdict.

"George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self defense," O'Mara said.

The response from NAACP President Benjamin Todd Jealous struck a far different tone. ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 178 user comment(s)
News Item7/21/13 2:13 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
arboriculture wrote:
1) But Mike, all sin emanates from the original sin. The tree's existence at that moment in history is part causal of sin in man.
2) An idol as choice of replacement god is surely second cause rather than first cause - But this cannot negate the first cause can it?
1) Not so. The cause of sin in man is man.(Romans 5:12) Would you say the auto is cause of a man to drive drunk in it?

2) The first cause of an idol being what?

158

News Item7/21/13 1:09 PM
arboriculture  Find all comments by arboriculture
Mike wrote:
You read funny.
1)You asked who planted the tree. I answered: God. Is that the wrong answer?
2)No. Look more closely. I said God established that man should choose. Does man need God to make false gods for him?
1) But Mike, all sin emanates from the original sin. The tree's existence at that moment in history is part causal of sin in man.
2) An idol as choice of replacement god is surely second cause rather than first cause - But this cannot negate the first cause can it?
157

News Item7/20/13 6:51 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
arboriculture wrote:
1) Ah so you blame God for the complete and absolute authority over all that man can potentially do including being bad?
Wonder how that plays out under the Arminian realm since man's decisions and choices would then become second cause as opposed to first cause.
2) You mean God established the wrong gods to lead man into sin?
You read funny.
1)You asked who planted the tree. I answered: God. Is that the wrong answer?
2)No. Look more closely. I said God established that man should choose. Does man need God to make false gods for him?
156

News Item7/20/13 4:38 PM
arboriculture  Find all comments by arboriculture
Mike wrote:
1)God
2)To establish that man shall choose the gods whom he will obey and serve
1) Ah so you blame God for the complete and absolute authority over all that man can potentially do including being bad?
Wonder how that plays out under the Arminian realm since man's decisions and choices would then become second cause as opposed to first cause.

2) You mean God established the wrong gods to lead man into sin?

155

News Item7/20/13 12:54 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
arboriculture wrote:
Mike
1)Who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden?
2)And what was the purpose and reason for that tree being planted there?
1)God
2)To establish that man shall choose the gods whom he will obey and serve, and reap the consequences or blessings. So it has been from the garden, to Joshua, to "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem," and beyond.

I've girded up the loins of my mind, and am ready to receive your "Arminian" label.

154

News Item7/20/13 12:51 PM
Dorcas | USA  Find all comments by Dorcas
"I never try to reconcile friends...they are both in the Bible".
C.H. Spurgeon.
When asked to reconcile these truths...God's sovereignty and mans responsibility.
153

News Item7/20/13 8:19 AM
whose in charge  Find all comments by whose in charge
Isa. 10:15
"Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood."

"Cut that verse any way you want and it always comes out the same way. God moved and used the Assyrian to accomplish His plans of judgment, and then He punished the Assyrian for what he did simply because he did it with the wrong motive and with no thought of God at all. Does it sound unfair for God to use people and then punish them for what they do? The failure to see this truth is one of the primary reasons that untaught Christians have such difficulty in believing the absolute sovereignty of God. They totally confuse the so-called "free will" of man with the Biblical doctrine of the "free agency" of man. In their confused minds they think there are only two choices. (1) Either man is totally free [even God's power is limited by man's sovereign will], or else (2) man is a robot [God's sovereignty somehow (?) eliminates man's need to make right choices] and therefore cannot be held responsible for his actions." (John Reisinger)

God is Sovereign - Man is Responsible

152

News Item7/20/13 8:03 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hmmm... I'll be interested to hear the answer. I have a reason in my head but it's probably wrong.
151

News Item7/20/13 7:38 AM
arboriculture  Find all comments by arboriculture
Mike wrote:
I don't know any other way to read it, bro. "nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement" is hard to interpret differently. Then again, perhaps nothing doesn't really mean nothing. Maybe it means nothing of some things, or some nothing, but not all?
Mike
Who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden?

And what was the purpose and reason for that tree being planted there?

150

News Item7/19/13 3:47 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
I don't know any other way to read it, bro. "nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement" is hard to interpret differently. Then again, perhaps nothing doesn't really mean nothing. Maybe it means nothing of some things, or some nothing, but not all?
Phew! It's a shame we can't talk to the man who wrote such weird and profound words. Maybe he had something else in mind. Or maybe his mind was on something else. Or maybe, he was just on something.
149

News Item7/19/13 3:41 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Help me out here Mike. Is this Belgic saying that God orderly arranges everything, including the sins of men, but he must not be charged with arranging sin nor authoring it?
I don't know any other way to read it, bro. "nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement" is hard to interpret differently. Then again, perhaps nothing doesn't really mean nothing. Maybe it means nothing of some things, or some nothing, but not all?
148

News Item7/19/13 9:17 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hey, thanks Rafael...

All of this is a bit of a mystery, no matter how much anyone may try to argue their points. When this body gives out one day, I have a lot of questions. ..ha-ha.
I always wonder if we will be asking questions or if we will just know everything once we cross over. Whether it be the topics being discussed, other bible difficulties, the Nephelim, dinosaurs, etc.

147

News Item7/19/13 7:28 AM
rafael | chicago  Contact via emailFind all comments by rafael
Sorry to here about that christopher I kinda understand were your coming from, remember God is a just God he makes no mistakes we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and sometimes things are done for a reason so that he can get your attention the loss of anyone is sad this whole situation makes me sad and we are living in lawless times things are going to happen and the devil does for bad but God uses for good and ask the Lord for knowledge he who lacks knowledge and ask for he gives but remember to much knowledge makes people foolish and puffed up just ask the Lord to help also you can stand on a corner and give out tracks and if people start asking questions God will give you the words to say.
146

News Item7/19/13 6:24 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Well, I tried to follow but got lost again...you all are far loftier than I, that's for sure. I've always wanted to set up a booth on a sidewalk and witness/answer questions but I don't have the knowledge.
Anyway, I have always thought that God appoints the time of our demise based upon our own lifestyle, diet, and decision making choices. God in his foreknowledge just knows when we are going to expire, based upon the choices we make. For example: my dad shot and killed himself. He could have chosen to extend his life by not taking it that day, but he didn't, so with God knowing what would happen that day, God appointed that time for him to die. (19 yrs ago today, btw), but my dad had the ability to extend his life. What do you think?
Maybe I got so lost here that this isn't even part of the conversation.
Anyway, I can't comment on sudden death...the 12yr old girl who gets killed in gangland crossfire, the 5yr old boy whose parent(s) burn and beat him to death, the young mother of three who dies in a car wreck, etc. I don't understand any of that.
145

News Item7/19/13 5:55 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
There goes the "NOTHING happens without his orderly arrangement" part.
Help me out here Mike. Is this Belgic saying that God orderly arranges everything, including the sins of men, but he must not be charged with arranging sin nor authoring it?
144

News Item7/18/13 5:28 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
To continue:

Job knew that his wife was speaking nonsense, even though he also was to be speaking much nonsense later on.

Job 2:9-10 KJV
9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Four men and a woman trying to make sense of the terrible tragedies which had overtaken the entire family. Did any of them suss out what was going on?

Was there therefore a lot of nonsense spoken by all of them?

Can we learn from the to-ing and fro-ing of their speeches? Yes, we can. But to use any of their individual statements to form doctrines, without viewing the whole book, is foolhardy.

143

News Item7/18/13 4:47 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
SteveR wrote:
I agree with the Belgic Confession
Article 13: The Doctrine of God's Providence

We believe that this good God, after he created all things, did not abandon them to chance or fortune but leads and governs them according to his holy will, in such a way that nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement.
Yet God is not the author of, nor can he be charged with, the sin that occurs.

There goes the "NOTHING happens without his orderly arrangement" part.

SteveR wrote:
For his power and goodness are so great and incomprehensible that he arranges and does his work very well and justly even when the devils and wicked men act unjustly.
We do not wish to inquire with undue curiosity into what he does that surpasses human understanding and is beyond our ability to comprehend.
Indeed, for what is incomrehensible probably is so for a reason, and inquiry would make the Confession look a tad confused. Having a policy of establishing doctrine on incomprehension and lack of understanding makes questionable whether it should be called biblical. imo.
142

News Item7/18/13 4:39 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
The Book of Job is a wonderful book to learn from, especially how NOT to behave before men or God. I am sure the Lord has included this book in the canon to show to bigots and doctrinaire folks that there are many mysteries surrounding sickness and death, and we may not conclude God's judgment without good cause.

The good Matthew Henry has this to say about the desire of Job to have his life ended.

"Job, in this chapter, goes on to express the bitter sense he had of his calamities and to **justify himself in his desire of death**. I. He *complains* to himself and his friends of his troubles, and the constant agitation he was in, Job 7:1-6. II. He turns to God, and *expostulates with him* (Job 7:7-21, to the end), in which, 1. He pleads the final period which death puts to our present state, Job 7:7-10. 2. He **passionately complains of the miserable condition he was now in**, Job 7:11-16. 3. He wonders that God will thus contend with him, and begs for the pardon of his sins and a speedy release out of his miseries, Job 7:17-21. It is hard to methodize the speeches of one who owned himself *almost desperate*, Job 6:26."

Now Job2, learn from him and if you find yourself in the same state, do NOT follow his example, or that of his wife, who uttered nonsense also.

141

News Item7/18/13 4:15 PM
Job  Find all comments by Job
John UK wrote:
Ah well, if you got it wrong, you got it wrong, and I am not going to hound you forever

Ha! Ha!
John I love your sense of humour.

Try real Christians like the Puritans. For example Matthew Poole's commentary.

But John you worry me that you can dismiss the Book of Job an inspired Book of the Word of God as quote "nonsense" I sincerely hope you can overcome this error.

140

News Item7/18/13 3:06 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Job wrote:
I thought we'd dealt with sovereignty-responsibility!!
US has dealt with sovereignty-responsibility, and mighty fine it was too.

And I still haven't heard you quote a commentary which conflicts my opinion on Job 7:1. Ah well, if you got it wrong, you got it wrong, and I am not going to hound you forever. My intent is never to "win debates" but help folks into the truth. If you choose to ignore all the great theologians, that's up to you.

139
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