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MONDAY, APRIL 21, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
SUNDAY, DEC 2, 2012| 171 comments| 1 commentary
Rick Warren Uncertain if Homosexual Behavior is Sinful, Says ‘Gays’ Go to Heaven
Controversy is stirring over recent comments made by Rick Warren, author of the best-selling book The Purpose-Driven Life and megachurch leader of Saddleback Church in California, who stated that homosexual behavior “might be” sinful, and that he believes homosexuals go to Heaven.

During an interview this week with the Huffington Post, Warren was asked by Marc Lamont Hill if having romantic feelings for a member of the same sex is a sin. Leading up to the question, Warren was explaining that he does not hate homosexuals, and that people should disagree politely on the subject of homosexuality.

“I have many, many gay friends, and have worked around the world with them in gay organizations to try to stop AIDS,” he said. “We’re doing ‘World AIDS Day’ this weekend at Saddleback Church. My wife and I have given millions of dollars to help people with HIV/AIDS and have worked with gay organizations on ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 171 user comment(s)
News Item12/9/12 10:15 PM
kevin | ft. worth  Find all comments by kevin
Rick, you are clearly a tool of the devil. Please remove yourself from the pulpit before God decides to remove you once and for all.
151

News Item12/9/12 7:07 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Er... hem wrote:
1. You again assume what you are required to prove!!
2. He is writing to Christians who had not succumbed to the errors that prevailed at the time, and therefore attributes their preservation to God.
1. Me, I don't have to prove anything. Do you think scripture can be proven, or do you think it must be believed? Besides which, the main difference between you and me today, is that I have been really blessed by a text of scripture and you haven't.

2. I think it a grand thing that God preserved me alive before he called me, as he does for every other believer in the world. And I also think it grand that he has preserved me alive for so many years since he called me. Now if you want to be pedantic and play the theologian, maybe you can come up with a verse which says that, and then you can quote it and make yourself very happy. Me, I would far rather have the reality of the experience of the word of God, and see how effective it is.

p.s. I hope you don't think every Christian is "preserved" from errors continually. Even the great theologians debate issues like infant baptism.

But then, if you're a Presby, the WCF is infallible and accounted higher than scripture.

150

News Item12/9/12 6:39 PM
Er... hem  Find all comments by Er... hem
John UK wrote:
...Put yourself in Jude's boots. If you wanted to say that the sinner was called and then subsequently preserved in Christ Jesus, think of how you would have written it. Then compare with what Jude actually wrote, and you will arrive at the answer, even if it contradicts your faulty theology.
You again assume what you are required to prove!!

He is writing to Christians who had not succumbed to the errors that prevailed at the time, and therefore attributes their preservation to God.

This has nothing to do with pre-conversion preservation.

always wrote:
The Word of God is eternal not temporal.
And where did I say anything that suggests otherwise?
149

News Item12/9/12 5:38 PM
mrdungheap  Find all comments by mrdungheap
Christopher000 wrote:
Dear Mr Dungheap,
You are right,I always think of Phil 3: 8... my name is Wayne!

I listened to that sermon Total Depravity and it warms up around 30 mins, so recommend you listen to it! The church certainly appears to be what you are looking for and it is good to hear that it is close by and providentially you had already looked into 'Grace Community' just last week!

I would encourage you to go along

A couple of scriptures

Look up Proverbs 12.2 and then look at Gill's commentary here: Proverbs 12: 2

Then Matthew 12: 35 and here: Here

What does it say about the good man and good thing within us?

See also Romans 7: 18 and commentary
Here

Hope links work.

Have laptop problems so hope to catch up with you next Lord's day! Hope you might have some news having attended that church

Every blessing

148

News Item12/9/12 4:40 PM
Greek  Find all comments by Greek
Mike wrote:
the "and called" doesn't create a consequential event, even if it could be seen that way
"CALLED"
Greek word is "klaytos"
Adjective, masculine gender.

Therefore "called" is specifically used here to modify the noun/pronoun in the verse.

147

News Item12/9/12 4:38 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Nice comments John U.K., perhaps verses of 1 through 4 should be put together? Jude 1:1-4, Matthew Henry did in his Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary Jude 1. It is almost interesting that this Calvinist would display the flexibility that he does in his comments about the first four verses? to back you up a little more John and remove some confusion--

Romans 8
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren;
30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?---NASB

146

News Item12/9/12 3:21 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
1. I must have missed it, John. What is the other scripture you quoted?
2. btw, the "and called" doesn't create a consequential event, even if it could be seen that way. The "and" was added by the translators. Therefore the verse is written "preserved in Jesus Christ, called. This is relational, not sequential. Nor does the listing of them in the manner done necessarily require a chronological interpretation. Is the list of the Lord's names in Isaiah 9 to be interpreted in some kind of order?
The beloved are sanctified; the beloved are preserved, the beloved are called. You can switch them around freely, and not change the relational meaning.
1. It's not like you to miss the detail bro. Here's a clue:
___________
Sanctified = set apart

Set apart in eternity, chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.
___________

2. It's true that chronology may not have been in mind of Jude when he wrote it, but I rather think it was, especially when you consider the rest of scripture which supports such a chronology. If predestination comes first, and calling in time, then during the time before effectual calling, it is necessary for God to preserve us alive.
Q.E.D.

145

News Item12/9/12 1:17 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
On the contrary, when I read the Bible I am seeking truth, and when I find it, I rejoice. I don't see any problems with this text; even the "literal Bible" has it the same. Plus, I reinforced the "temporal order" by quoting another scripture.
Put yourself in Jude's boots. If you wanted to say that the sinner was called and then subsequently preserved in Christ Jesus, think of how you would have written it. Then compare with what Jude actually wrote, and you will arrive at the answer, even if it contradicts your faulty theology.
I must have missed it, John. What is the other scripture you quoted?

btw, the "and called" doesn't create a consequential event, even if it could be seen that way. The "and" was added by the translators. Therefore the verse is written "preserved in Jesus Christ, called. This is relational, not sequential. Nor does the listing of them in the manner done necessarily require a chronological interpretation. Is the list of the Lord's names in Isaiah 9 to be interpreted in some kind of order?

The beloved are sanctified; the beloved are preserved, the beloved are called. You can switch them around freely, and not change the relational meaning.

144

News Item12/9/12 11:54 AM
always  Find all comments by always
Er... hem wrote:
Don't you have to prove that a temporal order is in mind before you can use it to demonstrate your orthodoxy? Otherwise surely you are guilty of reading into the text what you want out of it!
The Word of God is eternal not temporal.
143

News Item12/9/12 11:33 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Er... hem wrote:
Don't you have to prove that a temporal order is in mind before you can use it to demonstrate your orthodoxy? Otherwise surely you are guilty of reading into the text what you want out of it!
On the contrary, when I read the Bible I am seeking truth, and when I find it, I rejoice. I don't see any problems with this text; even the "literal Bible" has it the same. Plus, I reinforced the "temporal order" by quoting another scripture.

Put yourself in Jude's boots. If you wanted to say that the sinner was called and then subsequently preserved in Christ Jesus, think of how you would have written it. Then compare with what Jude actually wrote, and you will arrive at the answer, even if it contradicts your faulty theology.

142

News Item12/9/12 11:19 AM
Er... hem  Find all comments by Er... hem
John UK wrote:
Excellent comments Christopher!
Jude 1:1 KJV
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Now then, I know that humanly speaking I could well have died in my 20's - mea culpa.
But...
Sanctified = set apart
Set apart in eternity, chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.
Preserved in time....
and then.....
Called. The prodigal son comes home, having "come to himself".
All "in Christ Jesus".
Don't you have to prove that a temporal order is in mind before you can use it to demonstrate your orthodoxy? Otherwise surely you are guilty of reading into the text what you want out of it!
141

News Item12/9/12 8:01 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Christopher000 wrote:
Good AM, John. I happen to like the book of Jude and am looking forward to the responses. I can't really think outside the box yet but will chime in while you are waiting on others. You left out the end where Jude tells them to contend for the faith but that may have been deliberate? I know that rather than Jude referring to himself as "a bondservant", he calls himself "the servant" of Jesus Christ which is really two different things. We are Sanctified, preserved, ANDTHEN, called? Different translations, differing prders.
Eh...what do I know.
Excellent comments Christopher!

Jude 1:1 KJV
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Now then, I know that humanly speaking I could well have died in my 20's - mea culpa.

But...

Sanctified = set apart

Set apart in eternity, chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.

Preserved in time....

and then.....

Called. The prodigal son comes home, having "come to himself".

All "in Christ Jesus".

140

News Item12/9/12 7:42 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Dear Mr Dungheap,

Thank you. I looked into Grace Community just last week. I'm not far down the road from them, as it happens. I'm excited about finding a good church with nice people who live their lives according to the Bible. A church which does not add or subtract from the word of God and doesn't care if they offend anyone while upholding God's rules for Christian living, etc.
I haven't listened to the sermon yet but as Christians, are we still considered to be totally depraved?
Thanks for taking the time to post.
As for your handle, I feel like I'm calling you names when I post yours up...ha-ha.

139

News Item12/9/12 7:35 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Good AM, John. I happen to like the book of Jude and am looking forward to the responses. I can't really think outside the box yet but will chime in while you are waiting on others. You left out the end where Jude tells them to contend for the faith but that may have been deliberate? I know that rather than Jude referring to himself as "a bondservant", he calls himself "the servant" of Jesus Christ which is really two different things. We are Sanctified, preserved, ANDTHEN, called? Different translations, differing prders.
Eh...what do I know.
138

News Item12/9/12 6:26 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
I was so blessed by this text this morning, that I thought I would put it up for all to read. I wonder if anyone can imagine what it was that blessed me so much about it? Or perhaps you'd like to say if anything about it blessed you?

Jude 1:1 KJV
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

p.s. If you have a modern version, you may never have seen the glorious thing I saw in this text ever before.

137

News Item12/8/12 7:55 PM
Mrdungheap  Find all comments by Mrdungheap
Christopher000 wrote:
Mrdungheap, I haven't found a church yet. Are you saying I should go to one of those?

Yes Christopher I believe the Lord will help you find a sound church if you are really desiring and seeking such.

Total Depravity

Have a listen to the above helpful SermonAudio sermon by: Grace Community Baptist Church, North Providence, Rhode Island Church website as it deals with 'goodness'. If the sermon is a blessing to you and it is a church within travelling distance, then why not consider going along? The website states: 'We warmly invite you to come and worship with us, or contact us if you have any additional questions'

Another denomination I am familiar with will also be very helpful if it is closer to you, even if you are a baptist, you will find sound doctrine and good preaching.

Another church website
Presbyterian Reformed Church of East Greenwich
East Greenwich, Rhode Island

Give an update how you get on

Kind prayerful regards.

136

News Item12/8/12 5:37 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
If I may add my poor mite to the discussion. Both Judas and Esau are said to have repented. They both felt sorrow, but it was for the consequences of their actions. (remember Esau sold his birthright before Jacob stole his blessing) when we see David confessing his sin and acknowledging contrition, he said that God was just in whatever judgment he brought (v4)and readily accepted the consequence of his action. That did not stop him for requesting to be dealt with mercifully, but it was an acknowledgement of his sin, not just a grief for the consequences it cost him
135

News Item12/8/12 3:16 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
whence cometh thou wrote:
Charles Haddon Spurgeon can find Calvinism in the Bible, John.
What did you say you were?
Charles Haddon Spurgeon could not find the word calvinism in the Bible either; nor did he keep changing his name every five minutes like some weird people do.

Did you know that the Rev Ian Paisley is a fundamentalist?

Tell me what you really think of R A Torrey.

134

News Item12/8/12 2:46 PM
whence cometh thou  Find all comments by whence cometh thou
John UK wrote:
What a strange man you are. Have you found the word calvinist in the Bible yet?
Charles Haddon Spurgeon can find Calvinism in the Bible, John.

What did you say you were?

133

News Item12/8/12 1:56 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
1. Well said brother. I accept your apology and forgive you for distorting what I said regarding gifted men. The only reason I wanted the record straight was because of others who might have read that post would then would have wondered whether it was true or not.
2. No the only reason I brought up the language thing was to be cute since you speak an English English and I do the American English; just trying to be cute. We have done that sort of exchange before and you seemed to understand it then. But, to answer your question is English my natural language; yes it is, although my German is fair. You will notice I ended that comment with "or ...". That was probably the most important thing.
1. True enough bro. When one is in the wrong, it is the wisest thing to hold up one's hand and admit it. So I am glad that is settled amicably.
2. It is a mystery to me, but hey ho.
132
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