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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  12/26/2014
FRIDAY, OCT 12, 2012  |  116 comments  |  1 commentary
Mitt Romney Visits Rev. Billy Graham: ‘Prayer Is the Most Helpful Thing You Can Do For Me’

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney met Thursday with Rev. Billy Graham, and the aging evangelist pledged to do “all I can” to help the GOP nominee win the presidency.

Romney went to see Graham and his son, the Rev. Franklin Graham, at the elderly evangelist’s mountaintop home in the mountains of western North Carolina.

“Prayer is the most helpful thing you can do for me,” Romney told the 93-year-old Graham.


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 116 user comment(s)
News Item10/15/12 12:54 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
John, I did notice that you didn't answer my question on the blind man sinning or his parents - hmmm. Although I admit that it is best we leave that issue alone. Not enough space anyway.
John, now how can it be that someone so knowledgeable has never heard of primary and secondary separation?
But, if you want me to help you on that issue, then let me know. Romans 16:17 KJV would be a good place to start.
Question? Question? Did I miss something? So sorry bro, I feel a proper Charlie. What was it again?

No I've never heard of primary and secondary separation. Something to do with false teachers? Tell me brother - what is it?

96

News Item10/15/12 12:33 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Yes Lurker, you were nitpicking and now you have drawn John into it; good for you.

But since you indicated there is no real point of contention, then I will leave it alone. And yes, your objection was helpful. Besides, if John agrees with you then I am very likely wrong on some of my points or on the way I am wording it, so I would be like someone who is simply "beating the air" or something like that.

John, I did notice that you didn't answer my question on the blind man sinning or his parents - hmmm. Although I admit that it is best we leave that issue alone. Not enough space anyway.

John, now how can it be that someone so knowledgeable has never heard of primary and secondary separation?
But, if you want me to help you on that issue, then let me know. Romans 16:17 KJV would be a good place to start.

95

News Item10/15/12 8:48 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
Morning, John & Frank.
This verse probably best explains my objection to Frank's use of "change" from tare to wheat.
2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ah yes bro, I agreed with you on this one. A sinner can become a saint, but a tare cannot become a wheat, nor can a goat become a sheep.

Christopher, it is good to have you around. Cease not to post your thoughts. You might learn a bit, even though much goes over your head. And you may remind a few of us older ones of truths we've forgotten or neglected. It is a great family, the Family of God, redeemed one and all by the same precious blood of Christ, and brethren and sisters in him, both now and forever.

94

News Item10/15/12 8:29 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
Lurker, you never fail to fascinate me with the things you come out with, but this latest is rather odd.
Morning, John & Frank.

This verse probably best explains my objection to Frank's use of "change" from tare to wheat.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

No doubt that Jesus changed water into sweet wine but the gospel call doesn't put a patch on an old wineskin (heart) but rather creates a new one. The gospel call doesn't change the strong wine of a wild vine into sweet wine but rather grafts us into the root and stock of a good vine so that we are enabled to produce sweet wine.

Perhaps I'm nitpiking but if I read Frank's comment wrong, what about an unsaved person being witnessed to? Or an eager to learn recent convert in our midst such as Christopher?

At any rate, it's not a point of contention.... just an observation meant to be helpful.

93

News Item10/15/12 7:44 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hi Phoebe,

Thanks so much for posting up all of the recommended reading/listening. I know you could have kept going too.

Interesting thing is that I have already found and have been listening to many of those you listed. I've been going deep into the history, doctrines, dogmas, etc of the RC church and I've found Alan Cairns, Steve Hereford, and Dr John Barnett to be very helpful.

Among others, I like Ken Ham as well, but I sure wish the man would record something longer than a minute. There are pages and pages of his one minute comments that I have to scroll through in order to get to other speakers at times...ha-ha.

Dear Ken Ham, for Christmas this year, I would like a compilation of your creation comments. : )

92

News Item10/15/12 7:28 AM
Christopher000 | RI  Find all comments by Christopher000
Thanks so much for all of the feedback. I'm surprised to see all of the differing opinions throughout the threads, but at the same time, it's encouraging that none of the disagreements are fatal which tells me that most everyone here is of like mind, believing the message of salvation, etc, etc as it's laid out in the Bible. To me, the rest is just interesting banter.

You are all way ahead of me but I also realize that you were me once and started things on a simple level, working your way up in understanding over the years. The Word of God is way deeper than I thought it was but for now, I'll keep it simple. If it says don't judge, I'll try to stop, if it says there were fire breathing dragons, I'll believe it, if it says Christ is coming again, I'll keep looking up.

All of the posters throughout have expanded my mind and forced me to step outside the box. You all have interesting takes on various issues that will prove helpful when I find myself filled with enough knowledge (and courage) to actually be able to witness to somebody. I'm really looking forward to that.

91

News Item10/15/12 5:33 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
I might add that we should practice primary and secondary separation when our leaders become involved in heretical teaching.
I've not heard of this primary and secondary separation before, Frank. Perhaps you might like to expand on that?

Lurker, you never fail to fascinate me with the things you come out with, but this latest is rather odd.

Ss wrote:
What does The Word of God REALLY say guys?
Can fruit be seen or not?
You never walked by an apple tree in summer?
90

News Item10/14/12 11:07 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Well Christopher if you comply with Phoebe's request then you won't read any post on this board for quite some time. Of course if you had had her wisdom, then you would not have read her post, since I don't think she is part of the recommended group that she gave.

Sorry Phoebe, but I couldn't resist and no I will not argue or debate with you. As I said on another occasion, I actually like your posts because they are not luke-warm and most are thought provoking, but I think an exchange of ideas probably would not be healthy.

Phoebe, as God is my witness, this comment was not meant to be unkind to you, but to simply help Christopher. But, I will go even further by saying that I'm sure Christopher will make the right decision, and I hope your thoughts actually will help him. I like most of those on your list as well!

89

News Item10/14/12 9:22 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Frank wrote:
Are you saying that the terms wheat and tares don’t represent the people themselves, but their belief system, or their sinful natures?
Both are true, Frank. But it is also true that the hearts of the world are first represented as a field which receives that which is sown. Hence, when God calls one of His own He creates a new creature in Christ. We die the first death by being baptized into Christ's death so the second death (tares burned in the fire) will not harm us.

All I was saying was that I don't believe tares are changed into wheat. Hearts (soil) are changed by God's call, faith buds so the wheat sown is received gladly, the old nature (tare) dies and a new nature in Christ is born unto eternal life.

Ss wrote:
What does The Word of God REALLY say guys?
Can fruit be seen or not?
Mat 15:17-20 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man....
88

News Item10/14/12 9:18 PM
Phoebe  Find all comments by Phoebe
No Christopher. Go to the Word of God first. Read it from cover to cover at least three times. Try not to come to The Word of God with presuppositions at first. Just read it, without judging it.

Seek out websites that teach hermeneutics, church history, biblical history, creation theories. Delve into The Word of God.
Listen to teachers from differing backgrounds and keep refering to the Word of God as you do. The Spirit will know if you are genuinely seeking to know Christ more and more and come to help you.
Here is a list of the teachers we have listened to on this site. When we found this site we were almost starving for genuine knowledge of the Word of God, we kept a journal of the ones we listened to.
Alan Cairns. R.C Sproul. R.D Phillips. Leonard Ravenhill. Phil Fernandez. Tozer. Conrad Mbewe. John Barnett. Dr Steve Hereford. Ken Ham. Paul Washer. Albert Mohler. Anthony Curto. Joshua Blair. Russ Sukhia. Gregory Millar. David Murray. Pastor J. Losardo. Henry Mahan on "I never knew you" Mat 7:21-23.
Edward Panosian. Micheal Phillips. Kevin Swanson. Tom Gibson on Humility that exalts. Mark Chanski. James Williamson on Spirital Apathy and Spirit of Truth. Principles of Bible Study. Spurgeon "A bundle of Myrrh." I have so many favourites but am running out of

87

News Item10/14/12 8:44 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Ss wrote:
What does The Word of God REALLY say guys?
Can fruit be seen or not?
No problem Christopher. Just run everything I say or anyone else says by scripture and see how it conforms to the word of God and all will be okay.

SS, Jesus said you will "know them" by their fruit which means it is something that can be seen or heard. Now I also contend that Christian fruit "can be" something that is not always seen and understood be seen by men, but only by our heavenly Father. There is a heart issue that only God can see. So, if I do something with the wrong intent or desire or motive, then God will not recognize that as Christian fruit.

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

So, I only concern myself with what I can see or hear, (I am told to observe)pray about it, and then compare it to the word of God.

86

News Item10/14/12 8:42 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
well, there's fruit and then there's false witness or false gospel.

the concerns with Schuller type universalism would be a concern of false witness. and that......is simply matching a person's teaching to scriptural teaching of the gospel.

85

News Item10/14/12 8:15 PM
Ss  Find all comments by Ss
What does The Word of God REALLY say guys?
Can fruit be seen or not?
84

News Item10/14/12 8:04 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Lurker wrote:
Not to nitpik, Frank, but this comment doesn't have the right ring to it.
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Perhaps I didn’t say it clearly. As an aside, I never mind when someone nitpicks. I consider the wheat to represent those (believers) with circumcised hearts and the tares as those that hearts weren’t circumcised (unbelievers). In other words, in verse 30 below, Christ uses the expression “them” which to me means a person. Are you saying that the terms wheat and tares don’t represent the people themselves, but their belief system, or their sinful natures?

Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

83

News Item10/14/12 8:03 PM
Christopher000 | RI  Find all comments by Christopher000
Understood...thank you, and thanks for the offer in a previous post as well.
82

News Item10/14/12 7:14 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Christopher000 wrote:
Some of this is over my head, so maybe I should be called Simple Simon. For me though, I think this type if information is useful to a new believer who can get pulled every which way and into dark, misty territories which may seem right but are not. This is provided that the new believer already has some understanding or, using the Bible, is doing their due diligence searching out truth. I think that when it comes to discernment, any little bit helps. However, I also realize that there are those who have their social fruits, but their private fruits, the ones we never see, are the ones that throw us off the discernment trail. Did I make sense? You all are probably like, what's this Guy talking about?"...ha-ha
What we don't see or don't hear is of no real concern to us; God is not fooled by them. I believe that most Christian fruit is the kind that only God recognizes and knows about, but I am not being adamant about that.

But, Jesus did say you "will know" them by their fruit. That means it is something I can observe or hear; therefore something I should be concerned about according to the command of the Lord. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, floats on water, then it is probably a duck.

81

News Item10/14/12 7:13 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Frank wrote:
Only the gospel can change a tare into a wheat.
Not to nitpik, Frank, but this comment doesn't have the right ring to it.

The wheat *IS* the gospel rooted in the fertile soil of circumcised hearts by the operation of God; i.e. God's law written on new hearts of flesh as in Ezek 36:26. The gospel doesn't change the devil's lie (tare) into truth (wheat) but prepares the soil of called hearts to receive the truth and reject the lie.

Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might ***destroy*** the works (tares) of the devil.

80

News Item10/14/12 7:05 PM
Christopher000 | RI  Find all comments by Christopher000
Some of this is over my head, so maybe I should be called Simple Simon. For me though, I think this type if information is useful to a new believer who can get pulled every which way and into dark, misty territories which may seem right but are not. This is provided that the new believer already has some understanding or, using the Bible, is doing their due diligence searching out truth. I think that when it comes to discernment, any little bit helps. However, I also realize that there are those who have their social fruits, but their private fruits, the ones we never see, are the ones that throw us off the discernment trail. Did I make sense? You all are probably like, what's this Guy talking about?"...ha-ha
79

News Item10/14/12 6:50 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Michael Hranek wrote:
Frank
John UK
Ahhhhhh! Tares among the wheat! This reality so needs the wisdom of God, lest we damage those who are wheat indeed yet immature with so much learning and "groaning", as you, John, put it to do.
At present the best way I can tell in facing this matter is to preach Christ! preach the Word! Pray! Teach people the Scripture, what God Himself actually says NOT the retellings of it to suit lost, fallen, carnal and corrupt men. Give ourselves to genuine soul winning, NOT modern day watered down counterfeits of the Gospel of Christ AND in faith expect God to save some despite the pretenders in our midst.
Far easier to type this, the living of it brings me to singing as a prayer, "I need Thee Every Hour! Every Hour I need Thee!" and making up a lot of words to touch on what I am facing and I am sure others are too.
I agree, good points. I might add that we should practice primary and secondary separation when our leaders become involved in heretical teaching. Additionally, one of the problems with wheat and tares is that when the tares are recognized, instead of confronting them and trying to convert them, we treat them as wheat and water them. Only the gospel can change a tare into a wheat.
78

News Item10/14/12 6:38 PM
SimpleSimon  Find all comments by SimpleSimon
The thing is ... I'm not sure it's healthy to be spending so much time discussing various ways of 'discerning' (judging) whether this or that person is in the club or not. Since it's not really up to you is it. And who was who and who was not was on occassion a shock to the disciples, and an offense to the Pharisees.

Not being gods capable of all knowledge and wisdom, facts, witness's, and other relevant matters that may or may not be taken into account by the actual Judge in a legitimate trial, over the persons soul and therefore their fate.

And when you 'discern' who is who and what is what, what then?

77
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