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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/19/2014
WEDNESDAY, JUL 20, 2011  |  68 comments
Lutheran denomination clarifies view after Bachmann departure
The nation's third-largest Lutheran denomination moved to clarify its views on the Catholic Church Monday, after being drawn into the national political debate by presidential candidate Michele Bachmann.

The Wauwatosa-based Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the most theologically conservative of the nation's three main Lutheran denominations, issued a statement on its website explaining its long-held tenet that the Catholic papacy is the anti-Christ. But it said that position is born of doctrinal differences rather than anti-Catholic bigotry.

"We respect the right of people to hold beliefs different from ours even as we point out the error," WELS president, the Rev. Mark Schroeder, said in the statement.

"Testifying to the errors that still exist in Catholic doctrine is itself an expression of love," he said. ...


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Page 1 | Page 2 ·  Found: 68 user comment(s)
News Item7/26/11 8:07 AM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
John Yurich USA wrote:
The term anti-christ can not apply to the Papacy since the term anti-christ has to refer to individuals and not to a religous office.
John Yurich
You need to understand the word in its broader meaning and context.

Dictionary:-
Papacy::-
"1. the office, dignity, or jurisdiction of the pope.
2. the system of ecclesiastical government in which the pope is recognized as the supreme head.
3. the period during which a certain pope is in office."

Thus the 'papacy' extends beyond just the papal office to cover the heretical evil output and blasphemous utterings of this satanic organisation.

Thus the present incumbent is antichrist by Satan's use, to fabricate the false church of religious imitation and counterfeit doctrines, aimed at gullible reprobates who collectively become the false witness which is the Roman Catholic institution.

48

News Item7/26/11 6:12 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Flidgard wrote:
The Papacy is the antichrist.
The term anti-christ can not apply to the Papacy since the term anti-christ has to refer to individuals and not to a religous office.
47

News Item7/25/11 9:17 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Flidgard wrote:
---
Now Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works"
"Faith" is referred to here in opposition to "works" (of man). Whereas salvation cannot be perceived as of human origin, (works) - faith might be by some. Hence the need for this teaching.
Greetings Flidgard,

You are going to have to look into this a little further. The contrast in Eph 2:8 clarifies the source of salvation. It contrasts salvation(THE gift of God) by grace on the one hand, and salvation by works (NOT of yourselves) on the other.

46

News Item7/25/11 3:53 PM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
Bibliophile wrote:
"all popes are anti-Christs."
The Papacy is the antichrist.

God teaches that we should worship only Him.

Roman Catholic teaches worship...
Graven images such as...
Dead sinners.
Old bones and bodies.
Old bits of wood and toast.
Plaster statuettes

Idolatry is therefore rife within the Roman Catholic doctrines.

The mass is clealy blasphemous.
The ability of redemption is given by the RC to a sinner (Mary) - Robbery from Christ and demeaning of Him.

These are "alternative" UNBiblical teachings - therefore "antichrist" as represented by the papacy for centuries.

Christ of course is the "WORD."

The papacy's alternative is the evil word of Satan and "anti" to Scripture!

45

News Item7/25/11 3:28 PM
Bibliophile  Find all comments by Bibliophile
Protestants have been crying wolf for 350 years that the Pope is "that [one patently evil] Antichrist."

If this were true, it would be highly unlikely that Satan would use this same old tired tactic to attack Christ's Church in the 21st Century or later.

(However it's true that some popes have been patently evil).

Now, most Protestants (if they still care about this all-but-over academic disagreement) are weary and a bit sheepish and have down-graded their once-strident position (WCF 1646).

They now are forced to subscribe to something akin to this toothless statement about the many, many subsequent popes since the 17th Century debate:

"all popes are anti-Christs."

Why did they change their foundational doctrine?

44

News Item7/25/11 3:26 PM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
Mike wrote:
It is only works based theology if the works are held to be means to salvation. And as you know, per Ephesians 2:8, salvation is the gift of God.
Hello Mike;
You still struggling through?

Now what you have to remember is that the whole Roman Catholic religion is infected by their "works based" ideology. Their doctrines and theology are suspended upon the hypothesis that God "needs" mans compliance, else the ultimate reward of salvation is not received by the sinner. It is where they place God in their religion. Look at their idolatrous practice of worshipping dead sinners, (saints and relics). The belief they have towards the mortal is that there is a power within which binds God to "use" them as objects of worship, by the papist. Their erroneous concept of sin is that it does not prevent the sinner from participation in justification, sanctification et al.

Then of course their is the Arminian....

Now Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works"
"Faith" is referred to here in opposition to "works" (of man). Whereas salvation cannot be perceived as of human origin, (works) - faith might be by some. Hence the need for this teaching.

43

News Item7/25/11 3:10 PM
SteveR | Upper Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
Jim,
By definition an antichrist denies Jesus is the Christ. I dont see how you can claim all who held the office of the Bishop of Rome are antichrists.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
42

News Item7/25/11 3:01 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
A pope in the future may very well be the Anti-Christ in Revelation, but all popes are anti-Christs,

1 John 2
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us.---NASB

So, there were, are, and will be many anti-Christs, such as Popes. You probably won't, but other people may wish to listen to a sermon that talks about these "antichrists" Biblical Intolerance.

41

News Item7/25/11 4:53 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Jim Lincoln wrote:
"There will only be one Anti-Christ but there are many anti-christs. And no Pope has been the Anti-Christ." ---John Y.
John in that respect, I would agree with you, though I'm not sure some very famous protestants such as Luther and Calvin would, see The Pope and the Papacy for some of their excellent comments. Flidgard has given you some excellent verses. They can be applied to the Papacy that quite well.
Well anybody who believes that the Pope is the Anti-Christ is in error and does not believe what the Bible states about there will only be one Anti-Christ. And the term Anti-Christ can not apply to the Papacy since the term Anti-Christ refers to a man who will claim to be Jesus and will come onto the scene during the time of the Great Tribulation Period. Now the Bible does state that there are many anti-christs and if some want to believe that the Pope is one of the many anti-christs then they are free to believe that.
40

News Item7/24/11 4:32 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
"There will only be one Anti-Christ but there are many anti-christs. And no Pope has been the Anti-Christ." ---John Y.

John in that respect, I would agree with you, though I'm not sure some very famous protestants such as Luther and Calvin would, see The Pope and the Papacy for some of their excellent comments. Flidgard has given you some excellent verses. They can be applied to the Papacy that quite well.

39

News Item7/24/11 4:20 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Flidgard wrote:
Thats works based theology thinking Bibliophile.
2Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
Remember Bibliophile that "moral works" are also done by reprobates.
True. Bibliophile errs when he suggests the Pope cannot antichrist because of his doing good works. But neither can the Pope be determined to be antichrist because of doing good works. It is only works based theology if the works are held to be means to salvation. And as you know, per Ephesians 2:8, salvation is the gift of God.
38

News Item7/24/11 3:28 PM
Flidgard  Find all comments by Flidgard
Bibliophile wrote:
How can the Pope be the Antichrist when he's the most pro-life leader on the planet even protecting the embryo -- truly "the least of these"?
Thats works based theology thinking Bibliophile.

2Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

Remember Bibliophile that "moral works" are also done by reprobates.

37

News Item7/24/11 11:32 AM
post haste  Find all comments by post haste
Can anyone tell me when this great tribulation is supposed to happen? Seems to me the Church is under tribulation now more than at any other time. I mean,just look around the signs are everywhere.
There's an interesting story in the Bible about wise men seeking the Savior at his birth.They actually went to the religious leaders of their day(the experts), to find out where the Messiah would be born.
Does anyone wonder why after they told them,they themselves did not go to see? Perhaps then as now the religious leaders don't understand the time?
36

News Item7/24/11 11:10 AM
Joe the Protestant  Find all comments by Joe the Protestant
John Yurich USA wrote:
Why do you capitalise the A in anti-christ when referring to individuals who are not the Anti-Christ who will come onto the scene at the time of the Great Tribulation Period. There will only be one Anti-Christ but there are many anti-christs. And no Pope has been the Anti-Christ.
If you are quibbling over the capitalising of a word, to denote the introduction and definition of the term,then you have missed the point altogether. Read carefully again what I wrote, and you will find that I made the same distinction you are trying to make.

If you capitalised the word "The" in antichrist, maybee people would understand you meaning better.

I take it you did want an answer?

35

News Item7/24/11 10:13 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Joe the Protestant wrote:
I'm sure someone has already given this answer already. But here is the answer again: Anti, in Antichrist, can mean either; against, or, in place of. As in the case of a copycat. Of course it can mean both. So, if a man is an Antichrist, we would expect that he would exhibit many positive charachtaristics.
The Antichrist (the man of sin)will convince many that he is the True Christ. He could not do that by being outwardly immoral and evil.
As to your many posts of why you left the PCA to become catholic; I'm truly sorry for you. Todays PCA sadly is going into accomadationalism. However the WCF is a much closer representation of scripture than the church of Rome. But if you have a problem with the WCF, the 1689 confession, the Savoy, ect. Then why not just take the New Testament and read it several times, without running it through the grid of what you are being taught in catholisism, then compare It with you new found catholic experience.
Why do you capitalise the A in anti-christ when referring to individuals who are not the Anti-Christ who will come onto the scene at the time of the Great Tribulation Period. There will only be one Anti-Christ but there are many anti-christs. And no Pope has been the Anti-Christ.
34

News Item7/24/11 9:41 AM
Michael Visiting Jersey | Jersey Across from Philly  Find all comments by Michael Visiting Jersey
Bibliophile wrote:
How can the Pope be the Antichrist when he's the most pro-life leader on the planet even protecting the embryo -- truly "the least of these"?
For this reason alone one could convert to the Roman Catholic Church.
However, my family and I converted from the PCA (WCF 1646) for this reason and many more.
Catholic Bibliophile
How can a man, and the denomination behind him that calls him, 'Holy Father' sign his name to its Catechism and state Catholics and Muslims adore the same god?

For this reason Catholic people ought to forsake the Pope and his religion and read and listen to the Bible (which is the word of God) like their lives depend upon what God Himself says, because they do.

33

News Item7/24/11 9:07 AM
Joe the Protestant | 2525  Find all comments by Joe the Protestant
Bibliophile wrote:
How can the Pope be the Antichrist when he's the most pro-life leader on the planet even protecting the embryo -
I'm sure someone has already given this answer already. But here is the answer again: Anti, in Antichrist, can mean either; against, or, in place of. As in the case of a copycat. Of course it can mean both. So, if a man is an Antichrist, we would expect that he would exhibit many positive charachtaristics.
The Antichrist (the man of sin)will convince many that he is the True Christ. He could not do that by being outwardly immoral and evil.

As to your many posts of why you left the PCA to become catholic; I'm truly sorry for you. Todays PCA sadly is going into accomadationalism. However the WCF is a much closer representation of scripture than the church of Rome. But if you have a problem with the WCF, the 1689 confession, the Savoy, ect. Then why not just take the New Testament and read it several times, without running it through the grid of what you are being taught in catholisism, then compare It with you new found catholic experience.

Many of us are praying for your Spiritual conversion Nicodemus.

32

News Item7/24/11 9:00 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Bibliophile wrote:
How can the Pope be the Antichrist when he's the most pro-life leader on the planet even protecting the embryo -- truly "the least of these"?
For this reason alone one could convert to the Roman Catholic Church.
---
One's position on the unborn doesn't necessarily determine one's position with God. More important is, what is his position on Christ, as revealed in the written Word? Does he view himself as being in Christ's stead? As Vicar of Christ?
31

News Item7/24/11 8:09 AM
Bibliophile  Find all comments by Bibliophile
How can the Pope be the Antichrist when he's the most pro-life leader on the planet even protecting the embryo -- truly "the least of these"?

For this reason alone one could convert to the Roman Catholic Church.

However, my family and I converted from the PCA (WCF 1646) for this reason and many more.

30

News Item7/24/11 5:23 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Flidgard wrote:
Wrong again John!!
When Jesus was talking to Nicodemas HE also said;
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
Jesus also states;
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
So the unsaved can "pray" until the cows come home, But saving can only be done by divine hands not mortal.
And don't forget;
4 According as *HE* HATH CHOSEN us in him *BEFORE* THE FOUNDATION of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having *PREDESTINATED* us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
Predestinated chosen (elect) Christians are saved BY CHRIST not by human action or requests!
AND they do not follow the papal antichrist!
Well according to Baptist and Pentecostal teaching salvation comes by praying to Jesus and asking Him to become ones Personal Lord and Savior. And I do not follow the Pope. In fact I do not care one iota what the Pope states about anything.
29
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