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While stressing that the discussion between Calvinists and non-Calvinists in the Southern Baptist Convention is a family matter, speakers at the 2013 John 3:16 Conference outlined the differences between the two views and what they believe to be the issues hindering unity among Southern Baptists.
Frank Cox, pastor of North Metro Baptist Church in Lawrenceville, Ga., which hosted the conference on March 21-22, told attendees that the event would help them "engage in the conversation going on across the nation and the Southern Baptist Convention."
Jerry Vines, pastor emeritus of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Fla., opened the conference by saying it was not about anger or fighting anyone over these issues....
Lisa wrote: Stick to the bible- may I recommend reading it!
You won't find anyone here that doesn't agree to sticking to the Bible and reading it for the most part. (doubt "Pastor"Mike would agree)The problem with the comment is two-fold. As it has been pointed out, it comes across as condescending, and would make an appropriate response, stick to the Bible, may I recommend practicing it. Secondly, it gives off the attitude that the same Holy Spirit that helped men in the past write down their studies and thoughts, somehow opens to you truths that He could not have done for them. Did they not seek the help and aide of the Spirit of God and spend time in study and meditation like you do? We read commentaries and books to aide our understanding of the Scriptures, to say that the Holy Spirit somehow uniquely teaches us above what He has showed others borders on arrogance. Why the exhortation to preach and teach in the New Testament, simply stand up there and read the Bible. God gives us many aides to grow in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, sites like this with sermons and Christian literature in mp3 format are very profitable. Forums like this where iron sharpens iron are great. We are not an island unto ourselves.
John 14 Vs 26 but the comforter which is the holy ghost, whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said to you.
Not in a spirit of arrogance but in a spirit to challenge you- consider chucking all those other books in the bonfire and just read the bible. As a trial try relying on the holy spirit and nothing else. Thats all I was suggesting ;( sorry didn't mean to come over arrogant.
Alright - I shall post a little more ( have forgiven ya). I started by suggesting that Calvin and Luther were anti Semitic in nature. And that I would not support their writings because of this. I mentioned replacement theology - and was initially involved in a biblical discussion ( someone quoted a verse from Mathew- which was appropriate and interesting) and I gave the davidic covenant, and then some biblical verses from Romans 11 and a few other places. I was accused of being unlearned because I admitted that I now only read ( which is an almost truth, as I do and have in the past read other sources) and at present would not attend a local church because of the gross error preached in south Wales. No one wanted to debate ( in my opinion) the issues using just the bible- everyone was jumping in and dismissing my comments on the basis that I refuse to read others writings. And I also felt that there was a slight deliberate miss understanding to my biblical interpretation- there was a mocking bullying spirit. Maybe I wrongly put this down to Calvinistic bias ( I have debated with Calvinists before).
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: God chose the ethnic nation of Israel to be His people, and they remain the only nation He chose for Himself. Can He, or will He, abandon Israel because of their sin? God will not! It is not because they are worthy or superior in any way, but because of His Name and for His glory He will not fail to keep all His promises to them.
The Church has not replaced Israel. If God were to replace the nation of Israel with the Church He would violate His own covenant with them.
There are two aspects of God's election of Israel. One, His choosing of the nation to be the nation belonging to Him, and two, His choosing of individuals out of the nation to come to personal saving faith in Him through Jesus their Messiah. Not all in the nation will be saved, but His promises will be fulfilled through the remnant of individuals who will be saved.
Lisa wrote: I gave you good biblical evidence that god has not replaced israel with the church- that spiritual Israel is a joining of Jew and gentile through Christ to make one new man....
I've considered your comment for a while and must admit that I am confused.... probably because you are mixing biblical truth (spiritual Israel is a joining of Jew and gentile through Christ to make one new man) with doctrines of men (replaced israel with the church).
But the real problem goes back to a comment I made to Helps regarding the fuller meaning of Paul's citation of Isaiah 44:18 in Acts 28:23-27. You quoted a piece of my comment, out of the context of the discussion at that time, and immediately assumed that I held to replacement theology and was probably an antisemite. Wouldn't it have made more sense to ask what I believed regarding replacement theology rather than arguing against something I, or anyone else for that matter, didn't even assert?
Lisa wrote: I shall not post further.
That would be a shame, Lisa. You have as much right as anyone else to join in these discussions. There will always be disagreements between likeminded brothers and sisters so don't let a misunderstanding keep you away.
Lisa wrote: a forum for Calvinistic cyber bullying. I shall not post further. Blessings Lisa
I feel SA leans towards arminianistic cyber bullying, but thats beside the point. Lets face it you are cordial but you arent leaving because of that. You appear to be leaving because you failed to prove what Replacement Theology is.
Replacement Theology sounds more like what heresy you are promoting. The heresy that takes Spiritual promises and grants them to people without faith...Now thats what I call Replacement Theology
Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
thanks wrote: Look forward to more 'helps' as the Lord wills, God bless you and thank you for your excellent contributions
Thank you "Thanks".
Brother Alexander also has audios on SA, if you are interested to hear his voice. Just search for his name under speaker names.
I only got to know of him through Stuart Olyott's book on Romans, which I read many years ago, and have searched high and low for anything by him since. What I have found to date is priceless.
I sincerely hope that others will begin to appreciate his ministry again.
I am definitely going back to lurk mode now. I will post occasionally, but I find the engagement here too time consuming.
A blessed Lord's day to you all.
Just saw yours before leaving. You seem incapable of engaging, and appear very arrogant with comments like "Stick to the bible- may I recommend reading it!". I have been studying (not merely reading) my bible now for well over 40 years and so snide comments like that are insulting but not engaging. If this is how you interact, then you will get a reaction which no doubt you will label cyber bullying! A little humility would go a long way.
Helps - please read over your posting. I am confirmed in my previous opinion regarding Calvinists.thankyou for reminding me! I was attempting to show you bible passages ( I could recommend books but that only mirrors the opinion of the writer) I am only interested in the opinion of god so why would I go to another source to have someone's opinions ( probably a Calvinist whom I have only ever found to have a bullying spirit laden with anti semitism).
I gave you good biblical evidence that god has not replaced israel with the church- that spiritual Israel is a joining of Jew and gentile through Christ to make one new man and I get personal attack. Be not high minded but fear.
I have seen enough of your character - and the spirits displayed here to know that this is not a place for civilised Christian discussion amongst brethren- but a forum for Calvinistic cyber bullying. I shall not post further. Blessings Lisa
Lisa wrote: Stick to the bible- may I recommend reading it!
Excellent advise, Lisa. It's essential to have the infallible teachings of the bible settled in one's mind in order to determine if the fallible teachings of men are biblical or not.
May I ask, how did you become aware of the term "Replacement Theology"? It's not in the bible.
Helps wrote: Lurker, I highly recommend all the writings of Charles D Alexander because I find that he compares Scripture to Scripture and tries never to impose his own understanding on any issue. Thankfully that website has most of his known writings which are otherwise very difficult to come by. Do check them out.
thanks wrote: Ah, the first written link led to an Errol Hulse book, though it was copied from the correct Alexander link, but you just beat me John, as I realised what Dorcas needed THANKS! I remember W H Molland used to have a lot of Alexander's material in his 'Link' booklets which were always most helpful.
Most helpful "Link" indeed. Brother Molland now in Beulah Land, praising the Lord, his life's work accomplished. _________
Helps wrote: Obviously you don't need teachers... Reading your posts is painful and the spirit you display is not becoming of a Christian lady. Tell me are you here to engage or to teach?
Helps, I find your posts straight to the point and Biblically spot-on. Lisa has no church but her own where she is the sole teacher and the only member. She reads no books but the Bible yet appears ignorant of the plain teachings of Holy Writ. Your post 4/14/13 12:55 AM re: ROMANS ELEVEN AND THE TWO ISRAELS
Charles D. Alexander
proved to be a personal blessing which brought further blessing in reading THE SIX DAY WAR AND THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL
Lisa wrote: Stick to the bible- may I recommend reading it!
Obviously you don't need teachers because you have already arrived and we can all witness the wealth of wisdom you possess. If only the Lord had known about you before he decided to bestow teachers in His church he might have changed his mind.
You arrogance is quite unbelievable!
If you are so knowledgeable on the Bible why is it that you seem incapable of making a case? Those who make assertions, backed only by proof-texts and don't engage any more than that show that they know nothing. So stop standing on the sideline jeering at things you personally can't agree with. No one cares for your personal opinions!
Reading your posts is painful and the spirit you display is not becoming of a Christian lady.
Lurker wrote: Thanks for that link, Helps. I read the article and found it to be rich in relevant prophetic references shedding greater light than the usual immediate context expositions which can easily be massaged to suit one's presuppositions. Great article on the mark. Thanks.
Lurker, I highly recommend all the writings of Charles D Alexander because I find that he compares Scripture to Scripture and tries never to impose his own understanding on any issue.
Thankfully that website has most of his known writings which are otherwise very difficult to come by. Do check them out.
Luke 12:51-53 KJV 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
The covenant of grace is individual not genealogical.