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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  1/29/2015
WEDNESDAY, JUL 23, 2014  |  247 comments  |  1 commentary
Patheos: Calvinism = Wahhabism?

.Analogies between the European Reformation and contemporary Islamism are much closer than many Protestants would like to admit.

Noyes compares Calvin closely to Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi movement that so often features, unflatteringly, in our headlines. Al-Wahhab (1703-92) was also a near-exact contemporary of John Wesley (1703-91), a fact that cries out for a comparative dual biography!

Like Calvinism, Wahhabi Islam urged the destruction of everything that could be seen as a later accretion to the core of the religion, as well as all manifestations of paganism or idolatry. Since the 1920s, this version of the faith has been the official creed of Saudi Arabia, and variants of it are found among Islam’s violent and extreme movements. ...

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Page 1 | Page 10 ·  Found: 247 user comment(s)
News Item7/25/14 10:31 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
who is really in charge wrote:
When you go to the Word of God who guides you into all truth
Dear Really
Oh! I thought the way some tell it, I would have to channel the spirit of long dead Johnny of Geneva or maybe the experts of Dhort for the "god of One Eyed Predestinationism" to get all the glory (or is it gory?)

Is it possible to actually converse with an individual such as yourself? You speak of Divine ability and yet somehow fail to consider as a possibility that God who is indeed sovereign in all things, almighty in power, far above any man and all men put together

just might be able to speak to us in words we have the right to understand and believe, in words we are capable of hearing (if we are actually willing to listen _ the Pharisees certainly weren't) WITHOUT having to allegorize them way in the least

How about that dear "Calvinist" is your "one eyed god of predestinationism" able to do such a thing? Speak to men in words that actually say what He means and mean what He says? Words people can understand? Even hear of the 10 Commandments?

Well if He isn't he really isn't God is He

BTW it is so brave of you to hind behind a moniker, how about you pick just one and stick with it


News Item7/25/14 10:24 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Sorry if I just spoke a little heatedly, but I have a passion for the truth!

News Item7/25/14 10:23 AM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Yes, by all means, read the scriptures, read the verses I have listed, scrutinize them with the method I spoke of earlier! This method almost always shows if someone is taking a verse out of its true context. This is more than evil Calvanist or evil Armenians! This is about the Gospel, and if we are willing to use scripture as our guide then we will get far. I encourage you, by all means try to find the verses that say we control our own salvation, do everything the way we want it, and that God is just some big fuddy duddy in the clouds that says yeh, smart move there! And please don't just list the verses that say that God isn't responsible for sin, and we are. I've already listed these verses in my previous posts. Both statements are 100% true, and we can't understand everything God says, just as sheep can't understand everything the shepherd says! God's reason is above our ownfallen reason, and we can only follow the shepherd, not judge him for the words he says that we don't understand!

News Item7/25/14 10:14 AM
who is really in charge  Find all comments by who is really in charge
Michael Hranek wrote:
"If I want to know what God says about Himself and salvation, I go to His Word."
When you go to the Word of God who guides you into all truth - The Holy Spirit - Or Michael?

Divine ability?
Human ability?

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Cor 2:14

How does the mortal get out of this discernment problem?
Divine ability?
Human ability?

Why do you keep trying to rob God of His glory?


News Item7/25/14 10:01 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
John for JESUS wrote:
I wasn't making light of scripture. Don't confuse the WCF and TULIP with scripture! If I want to know what God says about Himself and salvation, I go to His Word. The whole idea that faith is imputed upon the unwilling is false and though you may argue, that is what Calvinist teaches.
John for Jesus
Although (if memory serves me) we have clashed on other matters in the past, I have to think you have hit a nail right smack on the head

and I appreciate your post

If it is alright with you, to take along with you the side of:

"If I want to know what God says about Himself and salvation, I go to His Word."

Allow me to say for the sake of those who would impose their version of Calvinism on others and for their prey, so they can escape and flee to Christ (John4 you said it first)

"Yeah, Calvinism pretty much sucks!"

Oops! I didn't say God "FORCED" me against my will to say that because He predestinated it

Sucks - involve, or even worse "force" (someone) in something without their choosing, especially against their conscience and right mind.
Sucks - as being something bad came from

BTW if your alls Calvinism istn't this way I'm not thinking of you, Peace


News Item7/25/14 9:35 AM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
P.S. emphasis mine!

News Item7/25/14 9:34 AM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
John for JESUS from Atl writes:

JayJay... I wasn't making light of scripture. Don't confuse the WCF and TULIP with scripture! If I want to know what God says about Himself and salvation, I go to His Word. The whole idea that faith is imputed upon the unwilling is false and though you may argue, that is what Calvinist teaches.

Only God gives us the grace to be willing, There are two full pages of verses here I can send to you, but I think these few will do:

Matthew 22:14 For many are called but few are CHOSEN.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.

Ephessians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I have many other verses lined up that I can post for you, so if you want to read them please holler!


News Item7/25/14 9:22 AM
BibleSays...  Find all comments by BibleSays...
The difference however between the Mormon and Catholic Confession of faithbis the fact that they have to take verses out of their context. If you read over these verses they are not taken out of context. One test I recommend is reading the whole chapter around the verses in question. Then look at the original greek or hebrew it was written in. What does it say? Does it line up? Then consult a number of commentaries on the verse. I know not everyone has the kind of time to do this, but anymore you can use your tablet, computer, or smartphone to do this much quicker!

News Item7/25/14 12:57 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
I wasn't making light of scripture. Don't confuse the WCF and TULIP with scripture! If I want to know what God says about Himself and salvation, I go to His Word. The whole idea that faith is imputed upon the unwilling is false and though you may argue, that is what Calvinist teaches.

News Item7/24/14 10:52 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
P.o.t. my apologies, hope we can continue this tomorrow, God willing.

Bible says, thanks for you admonition to stay humble and contrite. I have no desire to come across as arrogant. Btw, check out a Catholic doctrine website, or a Mormon one, you know what you will find, a doctrinal statement, followed by Bible verses they say backs up their statement just like any other confession of faith.

I appreciate P.o.t. not using the WCF to respond to my comments. The Bible says we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, not the WCF. I am sure that many scholarly men drew up the document. They did, however, come to the table with theological presuppositions of their day and training. Some of those do not match up with Scripture. This is not a discussion I wish to delve into as it has had life in many previous threads and just seems to alienate those who wish genuine fellowship and have yet to see anyone change their position. It is a flawed document made by flawed men. It has many good things in it, but it does not deserve the elevation to the level equal to Scripture that some have given it here.

My goal is to bring glory to God and to edify the brothers and sisters here.


News Item7/24/14 8:42 PM
JayJay  Find all comments by JayJay
John for JESUS from Atl writes:

Yeah, Calvinism pretty much sucks! God made me say that, lol.

This is not a laughing matter. To make light of scripture in such a way is not reverant, and i'd suggest you chech yourself.


News Item7/24/14 8:33 PM
John for JESUS | ATL  Find all comments by John for JESUS
PursuitofTruth wrote:
What do you mean not necessarily his earlier post John for JESUS? Shouldn't you know whether you were referring to it or not?
I wasn't directly referring to that person, but not having read their earlier comment it may have applied. I don't necessarily know.

News Item7/24/14 8:09 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
BibleSays... writes:

Part 2: The Scripture.

Here are the verses that support these statements:

God ordained whatsoever comes to pass:

Ephesians 1:11, Hebrews 6:17, Romans 9:15, and Jeremiah 10:23

God is not the author of sin:

James 1:13, 17, and 1 John 1:5

Contingencies of second causes are established:

Acts 2:23, Matthew 17:12, Acts 4:27, 28, John 19:11, Proverbs 16:33


News Item7/24/14 8:08 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
BibleSays... writes:

Part 1: The Statement.

Here's how WCF 3/1 reads:

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."


News Item7/24/14 8:06 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Dear UPS,

I'd highly recomend that you read BibleSays...'s posts. I will repost them for your benefit.


News Item7/24/14 7:54 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
My last post is directed towards UPS! Sorry I forgot to put your name at the top!

News Item7/24/14 7:52 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Let me use an example for just a moment. Supposes you were born on the 17th of February in 1987 (I'm not the NSA, hones!). God didn't only know that you were going to be born on that day, he made it happen! He decided that you beeing in this world now would further his glory. He controls everything, he holds everything in his hands, and this is beared out by the scriptures I cited. He didn't say in Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord I know that you know the way of man that's in himself, but rather it says O LORD I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. This verse makes it very clear that no man directs his own steps.

News Item7/24/14 7:36 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
PursuitofTruth wrote:
None of these verses are quotes from The Westminster Confetion of Faith. Now why don't we see if you can answer with something from scripture that supports the contrary: that God doesn't reign soveriegn over all of His creation. I'd love to see you try to do it.
Hey, P.O.T., thanks for your response, even though I did not ask you a question. If you look at my response to Tel G one of the first things I established was God's sovereignty and quoted the verse in Daniel, not sure if you noticed that. So, I never said that God does not reign sovereign over all His creation. It is in Him we live and move and have our being and as Daniel said to Belshazzer it is in His hand our breath is.

God is omniscient so He knows everything that is going to happen before it happens. There is a difference between that and stating that He makes everything happen the way it happens. Lord willing will reply more later, thanks.

Also, thanks for not quoting the WCF in your response.


News Item7/24/14 7:33 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
P.S. Not like the book of mormon! It's just a handy tool like any commentary, and we do not raise it to the level of Gospel as mormons do the BOM. It's a useful tool for finding verses on varying topics though!

News Item7/24/14 7:30 PM
PursuitofTruth  Find all comments by PursuitofTruth
Dear General,

The WCF (Westminster Confession of Faith), is a book written in 1643 by a number of clergy to explain their beliefs using purely scripture as their foundation. When UPS (wonder if my package is coming soon? Ha ha!) attacks the WCF, he also attacks the scriptures it's based on!

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