Leaders representing the Roman Catholic Church and some American Protestant denominations have signed an agreement in Texas to recognize each other's baptisms.
After about six years of dialogue, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Reformed Church in America, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the Christian Reformed Church in North America, and the United Church of Christ signed a document recognizing each other's liturgical rites of baptism.
The five denominations signed the "Common Agreement on Mutual Recognition of Baptism," affirming the baptism agreement on Tuesday evening at a prayer service held at St. Mary's Cathedral in Austin....
SteveR wrote: In their understanding, Justification is a process that requires Sanctification. In our understanding, Sanctification is a process that does not take place until after Justification. The new birth means different things because of different doctrines Like I stated earlier, just as babies do not understand the biological process of their new birth, the same is true for many in their spiritual birth
Sound the trumpet!! The enemy is within the camp!!
SteveR wrote: John UK If thats your view, lets consider it case closed
Steve, the first point is not my view, but Catholic doctrine. Baptismal regeneration, which tripe the Anglican Church also propagates.
The second point is not my view either. Since being born again, I accept whatever God says, in his word.
The third point is my view, and it ought to concern you, as it is the view of others here on the thread. One even thinks you are a Jesuit troll. I am amazed that you are not more forthcoming. However, if you are a young believer, I would expect you to have a load of things incorrect, and time will sort them out, if you have the Spirit to teach you.
However, if you are bent on affecting in a bad way any young believers on these threads, teaching things contrary to what this website is all about, it will not bode well with you. Pretense is very much like the devil, along with subtlety and deception, half-truths and vagueness.
It is a shame you want to close the case, as we are getting somewhere with it, and you may yet be helped out of the quagmire into which you have obviously fallen.
When I was Born Again and left the religion of anti-Christ,I knew that a great change had taken place.no if ands or buts. Romans 8:14,15,&16. says it all!
John UK wrote: On the contrary, they do indeed believe and teach regeneration by water and the Spirit. So yes, they do indeed teach error concerning this. And it is a false teaching that can damn a man to hell. Secondly, it is NOT presumptuous to take God at his word, when he gives FULL assurance of faith by grace, and the gift of eternal life. The Catholic is being short-changed by their tutors, and the blind leading the blind means they both go in the ditch. Steve, either you do not have friends in the communities with whom you converse, or you are Catholic yourself, which several folks on this thread are convinced of. Your flag just isn't flying right, and it is very noticeable.
SteveR wrote: There is error in RCC teachings, they do not understand their faith as 'born again.' While they enjoy the Fruits of the Spirit, they are afraid to be presumptuous & consider themselves born again.
On the contrary, they do indeed believe and teach regeneration by water and the Spirit. So yes, they do indeed teach error concerning this. And it is a false teaching that can damn a man to hell.
Secondly, it is NOT presumptuous to take God at his word, when he gives FULL assurance of faith by grace, and the gift of eternal life. The Catholic is being short-changed by their tutors, and the blind leading the blind means they both go in the ditch.
Steve, either you do not have friends in the communities with whom you converse, or you are Catholic yourself, which several folks on this thread are convinced of. Your flag just isn't flying right, and it is very noticeable.
John UK wrote: Steve, I am not talking about justification nor sanctification. I am asking you about the new birth. Without being born again, a man cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. It is therefore CRUCIAL to get this right. A vast number of folks are deluded about this. Now do you have conversations with these folks in the Franciscan and Benedictine communities? Or are you just speculating? Are they deceived about the new birth?
There is error in RCC teachings, they do not understand their faith as 'born again.' While they enjoy the Fruits of the Spirit, they are afraid to be presumptuous & consider themselves born again.
SteveR wrote: From their point of view, one must be sanctified before one can attain justification. They do not promise themselves Glorification as some hypocritical Protestants do
Steve, I am not talking about justification nor sanctification.
I am asking you about the new birth.
Without being born again, a man cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. It is therefore CRUCIAL to get this right. A vast number of folks are deluded about this.
Now do you have conversations with these folks in the Franciscan and Benedictine communities? Or are you just speculating?
John UK wrote: Have another try, Steve. Why do these friends of yours imagine they are born again?
From their point of view, one must be sanctified before one can attain justification. They do not promise themselves Glorification as some hypocritical Protestants do
SteveR wrote: In their understanding, Justification is a process that requires Sanctification. In our understanding, Sanctification is a process that does not take place until after Justification. The new birth means different things because of different doctrines Like I stated earlier, just as babies do not understand the biological process of their new birth, the same is true for many in their spiritual birth
Have another try, Steve. Why do these friends of yours imagine they are born again?
John UK wrote: Have another go, Steve. Although I'm getting a bit bored waiting for an answer.
In their understanding, Justification is a process that requires Sanctification. In our understanding, Sanctification is a process that does not take place until after Justification. The new birth means different things because of different doctrines
Like I stated earlier, just as babies do not understand the biological process of their new birth, the same is true for many in their spiritual birth
SteveR wrote: I have been blessed to know many that I would characterize as 'born again' among the various branches in the RCC, notably in the orders of St Francis and St Benedict
SteveR
Really? I sure hope you aren't one of them stumbling block types that hinders genuine born again believers from fleeing the false religion of the RCC like the plague
or giving lost desperately in need of Biblical Repentance and Faith sincere devote RC people a false assurance they are right with God when to continue on in that religion they are not.
Frank wrote: SteveR's arguments are so fallacious that it reminds of the fact that our enemy is really Satan working through fellows like him. Anway, good for you, and US and others for taking up this battle. Way back when I accused him of being part of the emergent church movement and he didn't argue against that. [
Emergent church? Frank, I dont know what inner demons you have festering inside you to repeat such a false accusation yet again
Unprofitable Servant wrote: I would suggest you read (or listen via SermonAudio mp3 files) to Foxes book of Martyrs if you want to know how the Catholic Church was used in the early church.
Yes, they killed 100s of thousands who simply wanted to follow Christ and have the word in their own language. Had the RCC not done that, then there would have been millions condemning that false movement and the RCC and Satan were well aware of that. So, Christianity was in fact alive and well during those times, unlike many teach, but they were simply killed in large numbers.
John for JESUS wrote: When Jesus assembled the apostles, He grouped together people with various beliefs about God that did not mesh. If Catholics are not Christian then why did God use the Catholic Church so heavily in early Christianity? If Catholics are not Christian then there are large parts of the world that have never heard the gospel.
I would suggest you read (or listen via SermonAudio mp3 files) to Foxes book of Martyrs if you want to know how the Catholic Church was used in the early church.
John UK wrote: Steve, how many genuinely born again people do you personally know who are in attendance at the RCC?
SteveR's arguments are so fallacious that it reminds of the fact that our enemy is really Satan working through fellows like him. Anway, good for you, and US and others for taking up this battle. Way back when I accused him of being part of the emergent church movement and he didn't argue against that.
[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]. [13] For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2Cr 11:3-4, 13-14 KJV)
SteveR wrote: I have been blessed to know many that I would characterize as 'born again' among the various branches in the RCC, notably in the orders of St Francis and St Benedict
And how would these claim to have been born again, Steve? Have you spoken to them?
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