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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/22/2014
SATURDAY, JAN 12, 2013  |  157 comments
Most Evangelical Leaders Back Gun Control?

Evangelical Christian leaders in America have expressed their support for stricter gun regulations following December's tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., where 26 people were fatally shot.

In a poll conducted by the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), 73 percent of church leaders agreed that there needs to be stricter gun regulations, in hopes that tragedies, such as the ones that occurred in Newtown, can be prevented or minimized in the future.

"Evangelicals are pro-life and deeply grieve when any weapons are used to take innocent lives," said Leith Anderson, President of the NAE. "The evangelical leaders who responded to the NAE survey support the Second Amendment right to bear arms but also want our laws to prevent the slaughter of children." ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 157 user comment(s)
News Item1/20/13 10:31 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John Beechy wrote:
Excellent. It would be Newtown. Have you been by this strange area yet?
Never been there, never had reason to go.
157

News Item1/19/13 7:32 PM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
Mike wrote:
You didn't specify whether the Hurricane Sandy flooded area in New Jersey known as Sandy Hook, or the Sandy Hook school Newtown. But I would say 170+ miles
Excellent. It would be Newtown. Have you been by this strange area yet?
156

News Item1/19/13 4:17 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Christopher000 wrote:
Frank...thanks., and, no...I understand that. I guess I consider how it would just weigh on my mind personally. I guess that the only way I would be able to come to terms with it is to convince myself that his/her time was up and that God had used me for that purpose.
Yes, your thoughts were not stupid and I understood your point about shooting them in the leg. You and I probably agree on this issue, but just remember hitting someone in the leg is difficult especially in a stressful situation when your life or someone you love is in danger. Only kidding now. I would shoot them where I thought it would stop them completely and just hope they didn't die. But self defense is sanctioned by God as you already know.

Exodus 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, [there shall] no blood [be shed] for him.

155

News Item1/19/13 3:50 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Oh, I'm not too sure I would label my thoughts on this topic as stupid. I see it more as genuine concern for the lost and wanting the lost to have as much time as possible to come to their senses. Now, if I was actually in the moment, instead of just daydreaming here, who really knows what the outcome might be once my emotions take over and the adrenaline kicks in.
I'm sure you may have meant foolish which has a different meaning and impact to me.

Frank...thanks., and, no...I understand that. I guess I consider how it would just weigh on my mind personally. I guess that the only way I would be able to come to terms with it is to convince myself that his/her time was up and that God had used me for that purpose.

154

News Item1/19/13 3:16 PM
Bracewell  Find all comments by Bracewell
Mike wrote:
Yes the Constitution can be amended, but there are a couple points to consider.
Amendments 1-10 are the Bill of Rights, a codification of that which pre-exists civil law. They are not civil rights, i.e. rights granted by government.
The amendment process is quite involved, and though theoretically possible, it doesn't make any sense to say the Congress can repeal free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, etc. It's not within their realm to repeal, seeing as how these are not rights given by government in the first place. Naturally it would be political suicide for them to attempt to do so. They oft need be reminded that it is their duty to preserve these rights.
Which simply begs the question ...
153

News Item1/19/13 2:28 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Only the stupid would try to wound someone, Too often people miss even trained professionals, q.v., Ammo Dump. I would say some of these officers need to get more practice on their practice ranges. So no, when amateurs like us fire a gun it is shoot to kill--ah, remember pepper spray if you don't want to kill?

"... But Peter struck before they had an answer. We must see not only our cause good, but our call clear, before we draw the sword; we must show by what authority we do it, and who gave us that authority. [2.] He indiscreetly exposed himself and his fellow-disciples to the rage of the multitude; for what could they with two swords do against a band of men? ...."From Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary, q.v., Commentary on Matthew 26 and of course see, Matthew 26 (Verses 51&52)

Luke 22:49
(Geneva Bible Commentary)
Luke 22:49:

That zeal which carries us out of the bounds of our God-given position does not please Christ.

152

News Item1/19/13 2:01 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Christopher000 wrote:
...The reason I entertain these thoughts is because, as I've said before, I know that I would probably be sending that person to Hell on that day and I don't wish eternal condemnation upon anyone. This is silly, but even when I'm engrossed in a movie, and the good guys revenge is at hand, I always think, "don't kill him...shoot him in the leg to give him more time to repent".
I understand your post, but let's not forget that mankind can send no one to hell. That is the sole responsibility of our Lord and Savior. Like you, I would shoot someone just to stop them, but it probably wouldn't be a leg shot.

Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

151

News Item1/19/13 11:22 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John Beechy wrote:
Hey Mike, how close to Sandy Hook are you?
You didn't specify whether the Hurricane Sandy flooded area in New Jersey known as Sandy Hook, or the Sandy Hook school Newtown. But I would say 170+ miles

Bracewell wrote:
Mike,
HINT: keyword = AMENDMENT
Yes the Constitution can be amended, but there are a couple points to consider.

Amendments 1-10 are the Bill of Rights, a codification of that which pre-exists civil law. They are not civil rights, i.e. rights granted by government.

The amendment process is quite involved, and though theoretically possible, it doesn't make any sense to say the Congress can repeal free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, etc. It's not within their realm to repeal, seeing as how these are not rights given by government in the first place. Naturally it would be political suicide for them to attempt to do so. They oft need be reminded that it is their duty to preserve these rights.

150

News Item1/19/13 9:26 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
...The reason I entertain these thoughts is because, as I've said before, I know that I would probably be sending that person to Hell on that day and I don't wish eternal condemnation upon anyone. This is silly, but even when I'm engrossed in a movie, and the good guys revenge is at hand, I always think, "don't kill him...shoot him in the leg to give him more time to repent".
149

News Item1/19/13 9:25 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Somebody, from a few posts earlier, needs to stop listening to Coast to Coast...ha-ha, oh boy.

I'm all for defending oneself, and I believe that we are expected to, just as we are expected to maintain ourselves in every other way. Jesus is the great Physician, but we are still expected to get medical treatment when needed. I believe that's why He provided us with medical knowledge. God is our protector but he also gave mankind free will to do as he chooses which is no good thing these days. I believe that we are expected to protect ourselves, and guard our lives by any means necessary. Jesus Christ is alive and well but so is Satan and his hoards who seek to destroy us by using his human components to do his dirty work.

The issue that I always fight with, as I've mentioned before, is the death of another. Whether it be in self defense or capital punishment, I would never want to be responsible, even in part, for the ending of a life. I've always imagined different scenarios where I would have to defend my life or anothers. In my imaginations, I always rehearse shooting, etc, the attacker in the leg or wherever, if possible, to immobilize them as opposed to more life threatening areas. The reason I entertain these thoughts is because, as I've said before, I know tha

148

News Item1/19/13 3:45 AM
Bracewell  Find all comments by Bracewell
Mike,

HINT: keyword = AMENDMENT

Mike wrote:
The government is subject to the supreme law of the land, and must abide it. It cannot legally make laws overriding it. Since the citizenry is also subject to that supreme law, and their legal rights codified in it, no law contradicting it can be abided.
As you said the instituted law must be obeyed, but with the qualification that no law may be instituted which contradicts the highest law.
147

News Item1/19/13 3:05 AM
John Beechy  Find all comments by John Beechy
Hey Mike, how close to Sandy Hook are you?

Mike wrote:
The government is subject to the supreme law of the land, and must abide it. It cannot legally make laws overriding it. Since the citizenry is also subject to that supreme law, and their legal rights codified in it, no law contradicting it can be abided.
As you said the instituted law must be obeyed, but with the qualification that no law may be instituted which contradicts the highest law.
146

News Item1/19/13 1:11 AM
Banks  Find all comments by Banks
thintinman wrote:
do you think my actions be right or wrong?
I think your fearful imagination is unhealthy and wrong.
145

News Item1/18/13 9:43 PM
jpw  Find all comments by jpw
ah, now its a lack of faith for a man to save his neighbor's life. struck again by political correctness...... used to be that was called chivalry. (and according to some posts would make God mad unless a consensus among the institutions said it was good to do!)
144

News Item1/18/13 7:25 PM
A True Blue Jew  Find all comments by A True Blue Jew
[Removed by Moderator Alpha]
143

News Item1/18/13 7:14 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Great story, John UK, thanks for sharing it. Safety is of the Lord and He alone causes us to dwell in safety. However, for instance, that doesn't mean I drive like a lunatic down the road because God is watching out for me. I still drive defensively and leave appropriate space between me and the car in front. Fine line between faith and presumption. (not saying you were being presumptive)
Ah US, you caught me just before turning in.

Yes indeed, you have raised a crucial point concerning mans' responsibility, which must run alongside God's sovereignty. I would think that every saint is at times guilty of presumptive sin (and I hold up my own hand). Those who say, "Let go, and let God" are not showing much wisdom.

This is why I always without fail argue against the hypermen who are so convinced of God's sovereign power to save God's elect, that they will not even call upon men to repent and believe the gospel.

And even when I say that I believe the sovereign God will indeed save all his elect, by his appointed means of preaching the word, through which he brings men to new birth, faith and repentance, they will argue even that, and say "not so".

G'night all.

142

News Item1/18/13 6:50 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Great story, John UK, thanks for sharing it. Safety is of the Lord and He alone causes us to dwell in safety. However, for instance, that doesn't mean I drive like a lunatic down the road because God is watching out for me. I still drive defensively and leave appropriate space between me and the car in front. Fine line between faith and presumption. (not saying you were being presumptive)
141

News Item1/18/13 6:40 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
thintinman wrote:
I would pray that the Lord would help David defeat Goliath and if my own actions saved many and slayed a violent murderer, do you think my actions be right or wrong?
It would be very easy to say "right", and in most instances I think it would be right. However, we must keep coming back to enforcible laws in an individual country, and the USA is vastly different to the UK on this.

To quote Frenchy again, whom I believe to be correct:

"We must also beware of repelling our enemies by force or violence, even when they unjustly provoke us, except so far as the institutions and laws of the community admit; for whoever goes beyond the limits of his calling, though he should gain the applause of the whole world, will never obtain for his conduct the approbation of God."

It is in the words, "...except so far as the institutions and laws of the community admit."

140

News Item1/18/13 6:28 PM
thintinman  Find all comments by thintinman
Sir William Dobbie Glorifies God Defending Malta

In a time of world war 2 there were a number of Christians in high positions in the British Army, including Sir William Dobbie of the brethren. Peter Masters has a chapter in a book about his heroics, but I give another link with brief detail.

The army and the police force are necessary for law and order and the protection of society and God's instrument to protect families and individuals. Sometimes force is necessary and justified.

Let us suppose a terrorist is caught and has information that will stop the deaths of thousands. Is torture justified to save the many, or do we turn the other cheek? Should the police gun his friend down who is ready to detonate a bomb?

A big man is stabbing women and children in a shopping mall. He has just stabbed a policeman, the only man in the mall, except me. I have in my possession a snow shovel. I could hit him over the head from behind and possibly kill him, or walk on by and go home to clear the snow.

I would pray that the Lord would help David defeat Goliath and if my own actions saved many and slayed a violent murderer, do you think my actions be right or wrong?

139

News Item1/18/13 6:03 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Rufus wrote:
1. That is a beautiful testimony and perfectly played and this is the rightly dividing of this issue in my opinion. When we are labouring for the Lord and preaching the gospel, when we are being directly persecuted for the cause of Christ, then we endure and suffer the persecution.
2. Now, take this same thug and let's say he breaks into a house, school, church, restaurant whatever and begins to attempt to take the lives of innocent people. Is it the duty of a Christian man to A. Hide behind a tree (in which case innocent people die) B. Call 911 (in which case innocent people die) or C. Intervene using all means necessary to neutralize the threat (in which case there is the potential of saving innocent life). I believe there is a time to be martyred and there is a time to kill (Ecc 3:3). May God grant us the wisdom to rightly discern the right time for each.
1. Thank you Rufus. I hope that was a blessing to you and to all, as it proves God is active in the world and stands with his servants. (no bodyguards required - charismatics please note.)

2. No problem - it is C. I refer you to a post earlier when a naked man with a sabre burst into a Catholic Church to kill and was knocked out with one of the organ pipes!

138
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