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FRONT PAGE  |  7/27/2017
MONDAY, JUL 17, 2017  |  186 comments  |  1 commentary
'Bapti-costal' Churches Turn to Club Music

The Crossing, a non-denominational church in Tampa with a weekly attendance of roughly 3,500 people, is one of many congregations now incorporating electronic dance music (EDM) into its regular worship repertoire. It’s not a full-on rave, and you’ll see more “traditional” instruments like drums, electric guitars, and keyboards. But infused with more familiar modern worship stylings are characteristics of the EDM aesthetic: layers of computer-programmed electronic backing tracks, quarter-note bass thumps, and cycles of musical “builds” and “drops,” much of it set to a tempo around 130 beats per minute.

EDM, once the underpinning of the all-night rave scene, has now become one of the most popular mainstream musical styles, and it is influencing both studio-recorded Christian worship music and live congregational performances. ...


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News Item7/26/17 8:09 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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John UK wrote:
1... of necessity must encompass all the examples of the NT, or there were false baptisms in the NT performed by men who hadn't ought to have been doing that.
2. For example, Philip was no head of any church, not even a spiritual overseer:
Acts 8
1. Please, we are not deducting any thing remote to what you infer above

All baptisms were performed by male leaders in the NT church
Saying that, we do not claim that baptism has to be implemented by a particular person to be valid. What we were talking about is a matter of order/headship in a regular setting, not a rule or regulation

2. Philip was not a nobody either. He was one of the seven (Acts 6) living at Caesarea
" .. and the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy ..
... Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."

186

News Item7/26/17 6:36 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
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John UK wrote:
Today's quiz
Who is authorized by Jesus Christ to administer the ordinances?
The ordinances, as they are called, are given to the NT church, there is no qualifications given as to whom can administer them, just qualifications as to whom can receive them and how they are to be administered. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
185

News Item7/26/17 5:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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B. McCausland wrote:
So in all matters of church order as with baptism we expect to honour our 'heads', say those that rule over us as circumstances allow feasibly.
Sister B, whatever the answer is, it of necessity must encompass all the examples of the NT, or there were false baptisms in the NT performed by men who hadn't ought to have been doing that. For example, Philip was no head of any church, not even a spiritual overseer:

Acts 8:38 (KJV)
38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

184

News Item7/26/17 4:20 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Sister BMcCausland, thank you for your thoughts in this and your previoius post.
Good to hear from you.
Every blessing in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ to you, brother
Take care
183

News Item7/26/17 4:13 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
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B. McCausland wrote:
US
Good to hear you enjoy substantial preaching
However, not wishing to enter into polemic, and respecting your personal take about church order, this consideration should be worth while thinking about,
1. The abuses corrected in the Epistles are of generic value
Say the directives given in Corinthians about incest, believers engaging the courts, immorality, disorder, head covering, Lord's supper, partidist spirit, marriage, etc.. are universal to NT practice
See
"I praise you .. that ye remember ... and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you .. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God ...
.. so ordain I in all churches" (ICo.11:2&16, 7:17)
Saying that these only apply to that circumstantial church setting, is totally dangerous
2. ICo14:1 defines prophesy
"he that prophesies speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort"
Regards
Sister BMcCausland, thank you for your thoughts in this and your previoius post.
182

News Item7/26/17 3:55 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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John, we believe in the universal priesthood of all believers

As pertaining to the office of a priest, Christ "took" the bread and the cup and gave/ passed them to those with him, inviting them to partake of the same

Comparing the Lord's supper with its antecedent, the Passover, where the head of a household took normally the charge of leading the feast, so in a church setting we should expect mature leaders to take the charge as the shepherds/heads of the flock.
Say, in any decent/regular setting it would be inappropriate for a child, a novice, or for a woman to take it, as the order of headship is vigen in worship
So in all matters of church order as with baptism we expect to honour our 'heads', say those that rule over us as circumstances allow feasibly. 1Cor11:3

This take harmonises with the spirit of these verses in Hebrews 13

"Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Obey them that have the rule over you, and *submit* yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints."

181

News Item7/26/17 3:15 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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B. McCausland wrote:
We make our selves a disservice by believing these are totally new NT offices. In reality we often suffer misconceptions due to artificial disconnection between the OT and NT.
Interesting point! And most relevant to today's quiz.

Let me rephrase:

Who is authorized by Jesus Christ to baptise converts and minister the bread and wine?

Nobody know?

Rodney: "Nehemiah 8 seems to describe the typical church service today as anything else I have read."

180

News Item7/26/17 2:50 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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John UK wrote:
Today's quiz
Who is authorized by Jesus Christ to administer the ordinances?
John, a little of humour here.
See, any of the early seventeenth century Puritans being alive today would frown at the sound of the word 'administer' in this context, as a unwanted relic from "the dung hill of popery"

In the NT sense, ordinances are performed, participated of, rather than administered, they would object

Just a detail

179

News Item7/26/17 2:48 PM
Rodney K. | Tennessee  Contact via emailFind all comments by Rodney K.
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In Jeremiah 23 & Ezekiel 34, the Lord is rebuking the pastors (shepherds/feeders) of that day for their neglect of the flock. I believe that when the apostles spoke of pastors, they weren't reinventing the word. So, yes, we can gain insight from the OT.

Nehemiah 8 seems to describe the typical church service today as anything else I have read. (Well... not the duration or the continual standing )

This was not temple worship. It was surely the closest thing we see in the OT to synagogue worship.

(Nehemiah 8:4) And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and...

(Nehemiah 8:8) So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Expositional preaching

178

News Item7/26/17 2:06 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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John UK wrote:
1. 1Co14:29 "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge"
This would have been unheard of in the OT age, when prophets were infallible and were to be obeyed implicitly.

2. These words in the NT, minister, pastor, elder, prophet - I have a sneaky feeling they have been all misunderstood, probably because of tradition or what we are brought up with or the films we watch.

1. This verse makes perfect sense against the definition of prophesying of 1Cor.14:1
Let's be aware that there were true and false prophets in OT, this is nothing new of today
E.g. see Is.30:10 or Jer. 14:14 and many other.

2. If we think thoroughly we find the office of 'minister, pastor, elder, prophet' in the OT.
Say Moses, Joshua, Samuel and the priests ministered /served in the tabernacle, God spoke of pastors in Jeremiah 6 times, and of shepeherds in Ezekiel, 5 times, the children of Israel had elders, and God had his spoke men called prophets, Moses being the type of Christ
"The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet like unto me ... Deu.18:15

We make our selves a disservice by believing these are totally new NT offices. In reality we often suffer misconceptions due to artificial disconnection between the OT and NT.

177

News Item7/26/17 1:51 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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Today's quiz

Who is authorized by Jesus Christ to administer the ordinances?

176

News Item7/26/17 9:08 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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B. McCausland wrote:
.....
The passage of Joel describes what we know as the Gospel age, which in Scripture is called 'the last days'
Hence, the hyperbolic language about moon, sun, fire, etc.. is figurative speech
So, we are in that age right now, and the prophecy has come to pass, and is coming to pass in our day, and will come to pass until the very last day.

I suppose the difficulty with many is the simple word "prophet". We conjure up in our mind what a "prophet" is (say, like Elijah, Ezekiel etc.) and say that the day of the prophets ended at the close of the revealed canon of scripture.

But then we would have to grapple with the instruction to the church to weigh what the prophets in the church were saying to them.

1Cor 14:29 (KJV)
29) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

This would have been unheard of in the OT age, when prophets were infallible and were to be obeyed implicitly.

These words in the NT, minister, pastor, elder, prophet - I have a sneaky feeling they have been all misunderstood, probably because of tradition or what we are brought up with or the films we watch.

175

News Item7/26/17 7:24 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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John UK wrote:
Do you think this ties in with Joel 2:28 & Acts 21:9?
John, this is the way the apostles understood it:

"But Peter, standing up with the eleven,
lifted up his voice, and said unto them,
Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem,
be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, ...
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass *in the last days*, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

The passage of Joel describes what we know as the Gospel age, which in Scripture is called 'the last days'
Hence, the hyperbolic language about moon, sun, fire, etc.. is figurative speech

174

News Item7/26/17 6:58 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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B. McCausland wrote:
2. ICo14:1 defines prophesy
"he that prophesies speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort"
Regards
Do you think this ties in with Joel 2:28 & Acts 21:9?
173

News Item7/26/17 5:49 AM
Ignominious Emirakan | moosic  Find all comments by Ignominious Emirakan
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CCM- Baal in the Church

tinysa.com/sermon/723171419367

Brother Faust had a snake show up at his
country church building in the message before this -
songbirds singing outside provide an
example of " non-instrumental praise"
With the cattle providing low notes.

172

News Item7/26/17 5:36 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
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Unprofitable Servant wrote:
1. still don't see that as a pattern for all churches in N.T. worship ..
.. You are extrapolating what Paul said about the congregation at Corinth to all New Testament assemblies but we do not see that in the writings of other letters to other churches
2. .. gift of prophecy ... no longer existent
US
Good to hear you enjoy substantial preaching
However, not wishing to enter into polemic, and respecting your personal take about church order, this consideration should be worth while thinking about,

1. The abuses corrected in the Epistles are of generic value

Say the directives given in Corinthians about incest, believers engaging the courts, immorality, disorder, head covering, Lord's supper, partidist spirit, marriage, etc.. are universal to NT practice
See
"I praise you .. that ye remember ... and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you .. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God ...
.. so ordain I in all churches" (ICo.11:2&16, 7:17)
Saying that these only apply to that circumstantial church setting, is totally dangerous

2. ICo14:1 defines prophesy
"he that prophesies speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort"

Regards

171

News Item7/25/17 4:10 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
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when I consider the OT prophets, that they were watchmen on the wall who prophecied of the corruption of the day and God's judgment to come, like a sword, as we say the Word of God is like a sword, with that kind of precision...

and then I compare it to the ignorance displayed today whereas cultural Marxism is accepted by the churches...

then I would say we are in drastic need of the prophetic voice now.

and that there has been a lot of edifying but little accountability for our idolatry to the world..

hence the problems we find our churches in today.

where they know to love thy neighbor, but they don't really know what it means to love thy neighbor.

dispensationalism has reduced the animal down to its bones.

and the meal leaves those who come unnourished.

our nation is the biggest exporter of chemical reproductive medicine in the world, you could call us the greatest distributor, under Obama we made other nations deal with us on the basis of them accepting gay rights and marriage.

where are the prophetic voices of pastors to condemn these evils and speak of its implications on us? --

this is the job of the pastor.

the church should be evangelizing too.

and caring for one another.

these are all requirements of a Body.

170

News Item7/25/17 2:43 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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Okay
169

News Item7/25/17 2:40 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
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John UK wrote:
1Cor 14:26 (KJV)
26) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
still don't see that as a pattern for all churches in N.T. worship, and you seem to ignore the commands to church pastors to preach and teach to the churches over which God gave them oversight. Give you the last word brother.
168

News Item7/25/17 1:38 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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Unprofitable Servant wrote:
The church at Corinth abused their spiritual gifts.
Brother, we can thank God that we know that because Paul the apostle wrote about it in his letter. Did he tell them to continue in that or did he give them apostolic teaching of how to remedy it?

Your point about letters to churches not being relevant to other churches, even today's churches, seems to me most odd.

Your point about prophesy meaning forthtelling as in the OT prophet? I'm not sure you have that right, or Paul would not have told the assembled church to ponder any prophecy and discern whether it was right or not. The OT prophet was infallible.

Your desire for members to be able to share what they have learned this week from scripture, and give testimony of how God has been working? Well, that is great, bro. Should happen. But I am only focussing on the assembly, when God's people separate themselves to break bread, and seek to follow the leading of the Spirit in worship, thereby making Christ the Head of the church.

1Cor 14:26 (KJV)
26) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

167
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