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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  11/29/2014
MONDAY, AUG 25, 2014  |  401 comments
Michael Brown confessed Jesus as his Saviour in weeks before his death, pastor says
The family of Michael Brown have revealed that in the weeks before his death, the slain teenager had a premonition about his killing, and accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour.

Pastor Charles Ewing is Brown's uncle, and shared the intimate details with reporters on Tuesday.

Ewing told the Associated Press that his nephew accepted the Lord about two weeks before he was killed, and then had an eerie dream. Brown allegedly dreamt of a body covered by a white sheet, and told his family that the entire world would one day know his name. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 401 user comment(s)
News Item10/12/14 2:31 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
To add some relevant context to the reference to Ex 17:7 at Is 48:21....

Isa 11:11-12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the **second time** to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, **and from Egypt**, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, **and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.**

1948?

Context: Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

NT citation and fulfillment: Rom 15:7-12 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God. Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written [...] Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Choose you this day which author you will serve.

401

News Item10/12/14 1:31 AM
Lurker  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Lurker
James, shoot me an email from the mail icon above.

I was browsing the prophets earlier and thought I'd offer a comparison of the literal/historical hermeneutic to the scripture interprets scripture hermeneutic for anyone interested.

Isaiah 48:20 is a call to come out of Babylon, historically 516 BCE. The next verse references Exodus 17:7, circa 1491 BCE. 49:6 is quoted in part by Paul at Acts 13:47 indicating at least a partial fulfillment of the verse at the beginning of Paul's ministry, 45 AD. The literal hermeneutic demands the first part of 49:6 was fulfilled 1948 AD.

Is the HS that inept an author to scatter 8 verses over 3439 years?

Now, the time contracts to 2464 years if we recognize the Exodus text, while indisputably a historical event, also serves as a pattern for future events.

The time contracts even further to 561 years if we recognize that the raising of the tribes of Jacob took place during Paul's ministry. An honest read of 49:1-6 leaves no doubt that Isaiah wasn't speaking in his own voice but in Paul's. Further evidence is found at 49:8 cf 2 Cor 6:2 and 49:22.

Finally, the time contracts to zero if the Babylonian captivity serves as a pattern ending with Paul's calling on Damascus Road just like Ex 17:7 served as a pattern.

400

News Item10/11/14 6:20 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Brother Lurker,

Thank you for what you have provided here in the forum. I now do have a greater understanding of how to look at the historical due to this very exercise.
I had began seeing the story of redemption in the OT books in this very lens maybe 8-9 months ago and this just has begun to shed light on the NT Scriptures that I had never seen and is mostly ignored. I was just not utilizing that through this in the beginning....as you properly identified.(which is good)
I have not read through the OT as I am up to 1 kings 21 with this lens except during this time and I see that I have much to look forward to.
I understand and agree with the PM(just don't know how to do that) and going forward.
I do love the idea of bouncing thoughts as a test just to keep myself grounded in truth.

Blessings to you!

399

News Item10/11/14 4:09 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Brother James,

At this point I've gone about as far as I can comfortably go on a forum. My hope was to walk you through the basic timeline framework and to the best of my ability I believe I've done that. From here on its a matter of systematically infilling the timeline with relevant prophecies. So I would ask if there are any areas of my presentation which needs more attention so all is at least equally clear even though from your prospective all points are probably quite foggy, let me know. Maybe what I should ask is if any areas need more fog cleared out of the way, let me know.

Don't misunderstand that to mean I want to end our discussion but rather, if you want to go further we do it by PM.

No hurry. I know you want to give this careful consideration and that takes time. Blessings.

398

News Item10/11/14 12:59 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Interesting that our discussion has come full circle to were we began; Romans 13.

Let's revisit Daniel's 70 weeks. They commenced immediately after the Babylonian captivity and are broken down in 7, 62 and 70th. Obviously the last half of the captivity which preceded the 70 was a time of persecution of God's people.... a time of great tribulation. We see the same preceding the appearing of He who sits on the white horse as well as the persecution of the church preceding Paul's calling. Isn't it objectively reasonable to believe that the historical Babylonian captivity is a pattern for future tribulations especially in light of Jesus' allusion to the abomination of desolation (Matt 24:15)?

I propose the 7 weeks occupy the same timeline as the time from Paul's calling till the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch; from the time Christ appears on a white horse till Satan is bound; a day of the Lord.

The 62 weeks correspond to the reign of Josiah; the time Cyrus and the Branch built the place of God's rest; Christ's 1,000 year reign and begins when the accepted time, the day of salvation (Is 49:8, 2 Cor 6:2) began concurrent with God's people given a new name (Is 62:2).

The 70th week begins with the rise of Gog and ends at the great white throne judgment.

397

News Item10/10/14 10:44 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
James Thomas wrote:
1 Kings 19:18
Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”
1 Kings 20:15
Then he mustered the servants of the governors of the districts, and they were 232. And after them he mustered all the people of Israel, seven thousand.

Is all Israel defined here? All people of Israel = 7000. Now we know there were more than 7000 of the flesh...but only 7000 of the promise. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.

Need more light, James.

At Romans 11:2-5 Paul quotes Elijah (1 Kings 19:18) and identifies the 7,000 as the remnant of Israel (northern kingdom)which indeed were God's chosen people.

Now, does that mean the 7,000 mentioned in 1 Kings 20:15 was also the preserved remnant of I Kings 19:18? I don't know, James. If Paul identified the 7,000 as a remnant I guess there is no reason not to take that understanding back to the historical record as long as its in context, which it is.

And when we consider that the 7,000 prevailed in the ensuing battles, it is clear God was with them.

So, yes, you are probably right.

396

News Item10/10/14 9:55 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Lurker,
I am still tracking with you and looking forward to what you have to present.

I am still following up on previous postings with the verses.
I am catching the references and their implications.
the ten tribes of Israel, the ten horns

Still pondering on the other....reading required.

A side note:I happen to be in 1 Kings in my current read through the OT and came across this:

1 Kings 19:18
Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”

1 Kings 20:15
Then he mustered the servants of the governors of the districts, and they were 232. And after them he mustered all the people of Israel, seven thousand.

Is all Israel defined here? All people of Israel = 7000. Now we know there were more than 7000 of the flesh...but only 7000 of the promise.

For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.

395

News Item10/10/14 8:36 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
At this time, my job is to present an argument that a point in time in the Acts matches the same point in time in Rev 19:20. I'm going right to the answer then follow with scripture to bear on the answer.

The time Jesus appeared to Paul on Damascus Road is the exact same time the windows of heaven were opened and He who rode the white horse appeared.

That day marked the judgment of Mystery Babylon (when she came under the very same Law of Moses that she treacherously imposed the works thereof, the dregs of her cup, upon God's people) and the avenging of the blood (faith) of innocent souls she shed (Rev 19:2, 20:4 which fulfills the pleas of Rev 6:9-10).

This day is consistently named "the day of the Lord"; a day of darkness (Amos 5:20, Rom 13:12), when the wrath of God is reaveled from heaven (Rom 1:18, Rev 19:11); when the Lord wields His glittering sword (Deut 32:41) which is in the hand of the minister of God to execute wrath on evildoers (Rom 13:4) and all the sinners of His people (including Paul who was first) die by the sword (Amos 9:10 cf Rom 7:90).

In that day the tabernacle of David is raised and built (Amos 9:11:12, Acts 15:14-17) which came to pass when God confined the Jews in unbelief and had mercy on the Gentiles.

More to come....

394

News Item10/10/14 1:32 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
John UK wrote:
Lurker, I'm surprised you didn't put the scholars in inverted commas.
I remember those days, and it all seemed so plausible, the endtime prophecies all coming together. That is, until the member states started increasing to well over ten, and still increasing.
This is what happens when man made hermeneutics are applied to the bible. Not trying to stir up past strife again (I'm attacking the hermeneutic not those who hold it, for those who fail to see the difference) but when the bible is read with the preconceived assumption that it must be interpreted literally, historically, the only choice left to identify the ten horns is to look post 90AD. The possibility that God may have identified these horns in the form of a historical pattern is not only ruled out but not even thought of as a possibility and subjective reasoning is in... looking to extra-biblical, secular developments and figures for prophetic fulfillments.

Indeed, the kingdom of God which Paul preached is different.

The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21)

393

News Item10/10/14 10:57 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Mike, you surprise me. You said, "if it happens", not "when it happens".
But if you think about it bro, the Jews were well versed in scriptures of the OT, much more than we are, yet they could not interpret the prophecies concerning the first advent. Not even the Jews whom the Lord called and who followed him for three years and heard teaching from himself. Now that we have also the NT, it does not surprise me that the events concerning the second advent are also misread by many.
"If" has less chance of an antimill response. "When" invites it.

The religious Jews like the religious RC leadership, filtered Scripture to the common man. They could have interpreted well, but that would threaten their power and authority. Perhaps it is not that they could not interpret, but that they would not believe the prophets?

392

News Item10/10/14 8:27 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
If it happens, would you be disappointed? All that blurry not-millenialism out the window for a real earthly kingdom...
Mike, you surprise me. You said, "if it happens", not "when it happens".

But if you think about it bro, the Jews were well versed in scriptures of the OT, much more than we are, yet they could not interpret the prophecies concerning the first advent. Not even the Jews whom the Lord called and who followed him for three years and heard teaching from himself. Now that we have also the NT, it does not surprise me that the events concerning the second advent are also misread by many.

391

News Item10/10/14 8:16 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
I continued that in our day, it amazes me that some Christian churches are still expecting Jesus to be some sort of political authority and earthly king, when he comes again at the second advent. They say he will rule the world from Jerusalem.
Methinks his kingdom is different.
If it happens, would you be disappointed? All that blurry not-millenialism out the window for a real earthly kingdom...
390

News Item10/10/14 5:50 AM
John Glass  Find all comments by John Glass
John UK wrote:
Lurker, I'm surprised you didn't put the scholars in inverted commas.
I remember those days, and it all seemed so plausible, the endtime prophecies all coming together. That is, until the member states started increasing to well over ten, and still increasing.
At meeting last night, I mentioned that one of the reasons the disciples of Jesus all gave up after the crucifixion was because prophetically they were expecting the Messiah to be a Deliverer, one who would destroy the Roman occupation and give the land back to Israel so they could self rule again. They still had no clue about the reason for his death, nor did they expect his resurrection.
I continued that in our day, it amazes me that some Christian churches are still expecting Jesus to be some sort of political authority and earthly king, when he comes again at the second advent. They say he will rule the world from Jerusalem.
Methinks his kingdom is different.
If I recall correctly Hal Lindsey was one of those on the EU end times gravy train.

Did Jesus not say ' my kingdom is not of this world'. Difficult words for some to understand.

389

News Item10/10/14 4:52 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
As an aside, I recall when the European Union grew to 10 member states. A flood of anxiety spread amongst many churches when a few scholars declared the EU fulfilled the 10 horns of the beast the harlot sit on.
Lurker, I'm surprised you didn't put the scholars in inverted commas.

I remember those days, and it all seemed so plausible, the endtime prophecies all coming together. That is, until the member states started increasing to well over ten, and still increasing.

At meeting last night, I mentioned that one of the reasons the disciples of Jesus all gave up after the crucifixion was because prophetically they were expecting the Messiah to be a Deliverer, one who would destroy the Roman occupation and give the land back to Israel so they could self rule again. They still had no clue about the reason for his death, nor did they expect his resurrection.

I continued that in our day, it amazes me that some Christian churches are still expecting Jesus to be some sort of political authority and earthly king, when he comes again at the second advent. They say he will rule the world from Jerusalem.

Methinks his kingdom is different.

388

News Item10/10/14 1:16 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
I've already mentioned Ezekiel 38-39 and Daniel's 70 weeks are the only prophetic texts which project to the end of days and the second resurrection, the Revelation excepted of course. But there is one more very important slice of timeline which I've not discussed yet and that is the Acts. While it is obvious that the close of the Acts falls far short of the end of days in the timeline slice we've been discussing, that doesn't mean it doesn't occupy a small portion at the beginning of that timeline slice.

There are so many prophecies cited in Paul's writings indicating their fulfillment during his ministry that to fail to relate them to Paul's calling on Damascus Road would leave a huge hole in the patterns already placed on Rev 19-20. In fact it would be almost impossible to place them in the timeline slice if they are not first tied to Paul's ministry and his many prophetic citations. So in my next installment I'll try to make a case which links the time of Paul's calling to the same time in the several patterns projected onto its fulfillment... Rev 19-20.

As an aside, I recall when the European Union grew to 10 member states. A flood of anxiety spread amongst many churches when a few scholars declared the EU fulfilled the 10 horns of the beast the harlot sit on.

387

News Item10/9/14 11:45 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
James Thomas wrote:
1) So with that I have been reading the verses you have presented for the first time through these hermeneutical glasses....and enjoying the newness of what is revealed each time.
2) Hosea 2:16.
So glad to hear it, brother. You're just beginning to hear the words of the bible as narrated by its Author. Isn't it interesting that you now know who Josiah prefigures without me saying a word? And if you know that, you'll also know that not only Josiah but also Cyrus and the Branch prefigure He who sits atop the white horse. You'll be able to answer which house they were called to build for God which Stephen spoke of which was yet to come:

Act 7:47-50 But Solomon built him an house. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things?

Why would Stephen quote Isaiah 66:1 if God's house (Ps 132:13-18) was already in progress from Pentecost? All these and much more will become clear in due time without subjective reasoning.

2) Close. Hosea speaks of Aholah, the ten tribes of Israel, the ten horns who shall hate Aholibah (Rev 17:16).

386

News Item10/9/14 5:14 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
James Thomas wrote:
Its as if God is telling the same story over and over with different names but yet all connected in a way in which only God could have done. And the different circumstances just serve to reveal Himself to us and who He is. His attributes. Its no longer a study of historical events (which it is) but a list of all that our Father in heaven has been doing...
Amen and Amen! It is the drawing close of the Heavenly Father.
385

News Item10/9/14 4:48 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Lurker wrote:
Does it shed more light on the 70 weeks?
Short answer.....yes.

Thank you for the analogy.

This hermeneutic that you are presenting is precisely the one that "not by choice", but "by default" I have been reading the OT.
Its as if God is telling the same story over and over with different names but yet all connected in a way in which only God could have done. And the different circumstances just serve to reveal Himself to us and who He is. His attributes. Its no longer a study of historical events (which it is) but a list of all that our Father in heaven has been doing with His creation and learning who He is by how He has interacted with those in the past. And He does not change so who He was is who He is and who He will always be.
So with that I have been reading the verses you have presented for the first time through these hermeneutical glasses....and enjoying the newness of what is revealed each time.

Permit me some time to read more on these specifics.

"Yet she was not cast into the lake of fire. I'll let you ponder what happened to her."
What happened to her was ......Hosea 2:16.
If my pondering is off please correct me.

When refreshed, continue on..
Will pray for your need.

384

News Item10/9/14 2:25 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Just a quick addition.

What I've set forth so far is a lot of information to consume and retain. The goal is to permit the info of each pattern to infill what most likely will be absent or unclear in another pattern. The result will be a much clearer picture or storyline. In a sense its like putting a 3D puzzle together.

An analogy which helped me was that of an overhead projector, screen and transparencies. Think of the screen as the storyline and the transparencies as the patterns. Each successive transparency overlay adds detail to the storyline and when all are overlain each other the storyline for that particular slice of timeline is fully revealed. There is much, much more to bring to bear in this slice of timeline like Ezekiel 38-39 and all the prophecies which come to pass, all of it adding more detail to the storyline but this is enough for now.

Blessings.

383

News Item10/8/14 11:07 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
OK, James. Appreciate that.

For now I'm going to pass over the ten horns. They're important but peripheral at this time. At the proper time you'll be able to tell me who they figure.

The point of discussing the vision of Daniel 7 was to establish that it never was God's intent that we interpret it in its historical timeline. Therefore, even though it resembles historical events, its divine purpose is to serve as a pattern for a future event. The cross references give us reason to believe the pattern's fulfillment is meant to be overlaid on the first 7 weeks of 70 and both immediately preceding Christ's temporal reign of Rev 20.

As an aside, its interesting to note that the beast Mystery Babylon sits on as well as the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire. Wasn't the Rev 19 judgment of the great whore (Rev 17:1)? Yet she was not cast into the lake of fire. I'll let you ponder what happened to her.

Moving on. The pattern of Josiah, his four sons and grandson (false prophet) overlay the pattern of Daniel's vision in Chapter 8, the 62 weeks of 70 and all overlay Rev 20:4-10.

I've had insomnia issues the past several days seriously draining my mental energy. I'd ask for your thoughts on what I've presented. Does it shed more light on the 70 weeks?

382
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