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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/23/2014
MONDAY, AUG 25, 2014  |  295 comments
Michael Brown confessed Jesus as his Saviour in weeks before his death, pastor says
The family of Michael Brown have revealed that in the weeks before his death, the slain teenager had a premonition about his killing, and accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour.

Pastor Charles Ewing is Brown's uncle, and shared the intimate details with reporters on Tuesday.

Ewing told the Associated Press that his nephew accepted the Lord about two weeks before he was killed, and then had an eerie dream. Brown allegedly dreamt of a body covered by a white sheet, and told his family that the entire world would one day know his name. ...


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News Item9/22/14 11:04 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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James Thomas wrote:
I would not say your hermeneutic is strange. [...] Using Scripture to interpret Scripture is what Scripture does itself. Why not follow it?
Question....why before Acts 8:1?
I agree, James.

Why before Acts 8:1? There are recurring cycles in the OT which constitute an age. The easiest one to interpret is Daniel's 70 weeks. The first 7 weeks constitute a day of the Lord (judgment) ending with the death of all God's enemies at that time and life to His remnant. The following 62 weeks constitute an acceptable time, a day of salvation when God's people are multiplied. The first half of the final week is tribulation when God withdraws His blessings and the final half is great tribulation which ends by the next day of the Lord. I would also point out that the Babylonian captivity serves as a pattern for the 70th week tribulation (see Acts 13:41 compare to Habakkuk 1:5-11).

Now, knowing a day of the Lord was in progress when Paul penned his letter to the Romans, when did it begin? Damascus Road... the same time great tribulation was brought to an end. If great tribulation was brought to an end then, when did tribulation begin? When the sheep were scattered from Jerusalem (Acts 8:1). A pre-trib/mil rapture must take place before then.

295

News Item9/22/14 7:54 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
• Posted 25 hours ago
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Lurker wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, James. When I get no feedback I wonder if I've made my case or if I've been talking past everyone. I know the hermeneutic I use is probably strange to many.....

the pre-trib, pre-mil rapture had to occur just prior to Acts 8:1 to fit into its proper timeline. Sound ridiculous? Yup.

Lurker,
I would not say your hermeneutic is strange. Actually it is refreshing to me. In comparison to hearing a preacher preach what the seminary taught him and just repeating it in the most entertaining way leaves me starving now. I was one of the lemmings thinking that's all there is.

Using the logic of man route to dictate understanding of The Holy Spirit drives one quickly to error as well. Once I recognized that idol of mine, the Scripture opened up to me like never before. This is not your Tom Clancy novel.

Using Scripture to interpret Scripture is what Scripture does itself. Why not follow it?

Question....why before Acts 8:1?

294

News Item9/21/14 11:09 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
• Posted 45 hours ago
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James Thomas wrote:
Lurker,
I think your case is made for Romans 13.
Thanks for your feedback, James. When I get no feedback I wonder if I've made my case or if I've been talking past everyone. I know the hermeneutic I use is probably strange to many but I've yet to have anyone show me its unbiblical.

While I'm at it, there was another point I wanted to make... Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

There is general agreement that the twofold prophecy at Gen 3:15 was fulfilled in part at Calvary. But when was the other part fulfilled? Is this not what Paul was speaking of... bruising Satan's head? The answer is when he was bound in chains of darkness (2 Peter 2:4) and cast into the bottomless pit (Is 24:21-23, Rev 20:1-3). "Shortly", Paul said.... when the darkness of the day of the Lord (Rom 13:12) had passed and the accepted time, the day of salvation had commenced (Isaiah 49:8 cf. 2 Cor 6:2) which day was in progress when Paul penned his letter to the Corinthians.

What's my point? When the timeline for the events of the letter to the Romans is established by the prophets; the pre-trib, pre-mil rapture had to occur just prior to Acts 8:1 to fit into its proper timeline. Sound ridiculous? Yup.

293

News Item9/21/14 6:52 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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Lurker,
I think your case is made for Romans 13.

Understanding sin and its nature reveals the truth in Scripture which opens the door to understanding other Scripture.

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Romans 6:16 ESV

The truth in this one verse reveals a necessary ingredient to be able to grasp what other Scriptures are presenting.

292

News Item9/17/14 11:54 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
• Posted 6 days ago
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Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

There are two swords in scripture 1) the sword of the Spirit which is sharper that any two edged sword and 2) the glittering sword which, when drawn from his sheath, is bathed in the blood of God's enemies (Is 34:5). Yet, the progeny of the Pharisees created a third, civil law, to kill so-called heretics without getting blood on their hands. Devils.

Amos 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword. Paul died on Damascus Road and, at the same time, the Jews were confined in unbelief (Rom 11:32). By which sword? Deut 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. By the one which figures judgment aka the Law.

When relevant prophecies are brought to bear on the letter to the Romans, its clear the day of the Lord's vengeance was in progress. The wrath of God *is* revealed from heaven. Compare to Rev 19:11-16; note the sharp sword which goes out of His mouth is the glittering sword the minister of God bears.

Questions, comments?

291

News Item9/10/14 11:06 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
More on the day of the Lord....

Isa 13:9-11 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath [Rom 1:18] and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners [Amos 9:10] thereof out of it.
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. (Compare to Joel 2:31)
And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Oba 1:15-21 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Zep 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests [to the marriage supper of the Lamb] (Compare to Rev 19:7, 17-18).

Knowing a day of the Lord was in progress at the time Paul penned his letter to the Romans, can anyone believe Rom 13 ordains civil magistrates? Read about He who bears the sword in Rev 19.

290

News Item9/10/14 9:27 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

We can learn who the minister of God is by learning what was happening during the time Paul penned his letter.

Citation: Rom 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

Source: Deu 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

Sounds like judgment to me.

Text: Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand

Reference: Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Context: Amo 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword (cf. Rom 7:9, Eph 2:1). Next verse is cited Acts 15:15-17 confirming fulfillment following Paul's calling.

There are many more but how much evidence is necessary to see that *a* day of the Lord (judgment) had commenced when the wrath of God was revealed from heaven (Rom 1:18). I say *a* day of the Lord as one preceded ending at Pentecost (Acts 2:16-21) and another is to come.

289

News Item9/10/14 6:01 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
SteveR wrote:
Ye know not the Scriptures.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Even that Gospel event was under full divine authority. The Sanhedrien had authority from ABOVE and they sinned. They were vessels fitted for destruction so the LORD could make known HIS riches for HIS ELECT
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
2+2=8? Eh, brains?
288

News Item9/10/14 4:39 PM
Why do you think they were | concerned about defilement  Find all comments by Why do you think they were
SteveR wrote:
Ye know not the Scriptures.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Even that Gospel event was under full divine authority. The Sanhedrien had authority from ABOVE and they sinned. They were vessels fitted for destruction so the LORD could make known HIS riches for HIS ELECT
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
http://prayerlogue.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/the-six-illegal-trials-of-jesus-and-how-they-relate-to-us/
287

News Item9/10/14 1:07 PM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
Lurker wrote:
You're probably right, Steve. Why would I be swayed by the Sanhedrin since they are guilty of the same thing I have been arguing against.... in bed with the civil authorities for the purpose of shedding innocent blood.
Mar 15:1
Ye know not the Scriptures.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Even that Gospel event was under full divine authority. The Sanhedrien had authority from ABOVE and they sinned. They were vessels fitted for destruction so the LORD could make known HIS riches for HIS ELECT

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

286

News Item9/10/14 12:27 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
Lurker wrote:
You're probably right, Steve. Why would I be swayed by the Sanhedrin since they are guilty of the same thing I have been arguing against.... in bed with the civil authorities for the purpose of shedding innocent blood.
Mar 15:1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council [Sanhedrin], and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
Don't forget bro that they understood as much Scripture as SteveR does - IOW zippo.
285

News Item9/10/14 11:26 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
SteveR wrote:
So far Lurker has ignored Scripture, so rulings from the Sanhedrein are unlikely to sway him/her(imo)
You're probably right, Steve. Why would I be swayed by the Sanhedrin since they are guilty of the same thing I have been arguing against.... in bed with the civil authorities for the purpose of shedding innocent blood.

Mar 15:1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council [Sanhedrin], and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.

284

News Item9/9/14 4:12 PM
Observer  Find all comments by Observer
SteveR wrote:
So far Lurker has ignored Scripture, so rulings from the Sanhedrein are unlikely to sway him/her(imo)
How dumb can one individual be? Lurker has dealt with the Scriptures. This troll just can't refute him and therefore has to belittle him. Oh wait, he belittles everything that don't agree with the devilish doctrines of the Chimera camp viz. that worship of the true God is completely compatible with Baal worship. That God don't mind truth and devilish lies living side by side!
283

News Item9/9/14 1:57 PM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
Litl Pasde wrote:
The Sanhedrin.
"In trials of capital offences it required a majority of at least two to condemn, and the verdict of guilty could only be delivered the day following the trial, to enable the Sanhedrin carefully to go over again the whole evidence. The Sanhedrin who found the verdict had to fast all day, and the criminal was executed the day after the sentence. This leniency, however, was not extended to one who gave himself out as the Messiah, or was proved to be a false prophet, or promulgated false doctrines. The trial of such an offender was generally reserved for the forthcoming festival, when all the Israelites came up to Jerusalem. The accused was then tied in the presence of the pilgrims; he was condemned and executed the same day on the festival (Deuteronomy 17:13). But even to such a criminal a stupefying beverage was mercifully administered before his execution, to deprive him of consciousness and lessen his pain. In latter days, however, the sentence of death passed by the Sanhedrin had to be confirmed by the Roman procurator."
http://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/ginsburg/the_sanhedrin_in_the_time_of_the_apostles.htm
So far Lurker has ignored Scripture, so rulings from the Sanhedrein are unlikely to sway him/her(imo)
282

News Item9/9/14 11:25 AM
Litl Pasde | Vnt  Find all comments by Litl Pasde
SteveR wrote:
ordinance?
The Sanhedrin.
"In trials of capital offences it required a majority of at least two to condemn, and the verdict of guilty could only be delivered the day following the trial, to enable the Sanhedrin carefully to go over again the whole evidence. The Sanhedrin who found the verdict had to fast all day, and the criminal was executed the day after the sentence. This leniency, however, was not extended to one who gave himself out as the Messiah, or was proved to be a false prophet, or promulgated false doctrines. The trial of such an offender was generally reserved for the forthcoming festival, when all the Israelites came up to Jerusalem. The accused was then tied in the presence of the pilgrims; he was condemned and executed the same day on the festival (Deuteronomy 17:13). But even to such a criminal a stupefying beverage was mercifully administered before his execution, to deprive him of consciousness and lessen his pain. In latter days, however, the sentence of death passed by the Sanhedrin had to be confirmed by the Roman procurator."
http://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/ginsburg/the_sanhedrin_in_the_time_of_the_apostles.htm
281

News Item9/8/14 6:18 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Mike wrote:
Absurdity has its defendants, does it not?
Mike NY
That is an excellent observation
280

News Item9/8/14 5:08 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Lurker wrote:
I don't believe so, John. This is instruction between Christ and His people. My point of contention is leagues made between church and state based on Romans 13 to justify the torture and murder of multitudes of church dissenters similar to what ISIS is doing right now.
For clarification; Christians have dual citizenship being strangers and pilgrims on earth knowing our eternal home is the heavenly city. Yes, we should render to Caesar his due. Yes, we should seek the peace of the land of our sojourning and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof we shall have peace (Jer 29:7). But I find no biblical justification for church hierarchy to crawl in bed with the state for the purpose of executing dissenters.
Thanks bro. What you say makes plenty of sense.

Bro Mike New York, I am surprised it has taken you so long to join the fray. Are your beliefs similar to what Bro Lurker has been putting forth? I know you're opposed to the usual Rom 13 interpretation, so I would be interested if you are willing to share your thoughts on this.

279

News Item9/8/14 12:19 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
James Thomas wrote:
Lurker,
Nothing in NT on unity of church-state
Romans 13
1 Peter 2:13-14
1 Timothy 2
Teaches the attitude of the individual believer to the state. Thats it.
WFC ...duty of magistrate
New testament? Only one? Matthew 2:4-5 Thats the proof verse?
OT
Israel was unique
Naturally born a jew, circumcised...a heritage.
Pretty flimsy material to build a doctrine on.... especially when that doctrine meant the death of so many dissenters of the ruling religious machinery.

Thanks brother.

. . .

Thanks Mike, I remember you weren't on board the Romans 13 bandwagon and glad to see you speak up.

Lord willing I may tackle who the "minister of God" actually is. Seems only right after expending so much energy disproving the idea that he figures civil government. But for now I don't have the energy.

278

News Item9/7/14 11:03 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
Lurker,

Nothing in NT on unity of church-state
Romans 13
1 Peter 2:13-14
1 Timothy 2

Teaches the attitude of the individual believer to the state. Thats it.

WFC ...duty of magistrate
New testament? Only one? Matthew 2:4-5 Thats the proof verse?
OT
Israel was unique
Naturally born a jew, circumcised...a heritage.
Not the same now according to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. Matthew 21:43

But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Matthew 20:25-28

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. Philippians 3:20-21

277

News Item9/7/14 8:17 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
It's as though all that is "legal" must be of God. Roman law? Nazi law? Communist law? Apparently anything may claim to be legal, which is why those who object to the criminal authorities are themselves held to be criminal. Absurdity has its defendants, does it not? What do they say when the powers that be are replaced by other powers that be? Will the new powers be ordained of God, or does that apply only to the first powers?
276
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