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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/1/2014
MONDAY, AUG 25, 2014  |  325 comments
Michael Brown confessed Jesus as his Saviour in weeks before his death, pastor says
The family of Michael Brown have revealed that in the weeks before his death, the slain teenager had a premonition about his killing, and accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour.

Pastor Charles Ewing is Brown's uncle, and shared the intimate details with reporters on Tuesday.

Ewing told the Associated Press that his nephew accepted the Lord about two weeks before he was killed, and then had an eerie dream. Brown allegedly dreamt of a body covered by a white sheet, and told his family that the entire world would one day know his name. ...


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News Item10/1/14 12:09 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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James Thomas wrote:
verse 24-
Seventy sevens are decreed about your people and your holy city
He is answering Daniel about Verse 17 (make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate.)
Your people - Daniel's people he was praying about....All Israel.
your holy city - Jerusalem
These Daniel was praying for specifically.
Then God reveals His purpose for eternity on what He is going to do.
to finish the transgressin -
to put an end to sin -
and to atone for iniquity -
to bring in everlasting righteousness-
to seal both vision and profit -
and to anoint a most Holy one. -
Will continue tomorrow Lord willing.
Good so far. Continuing tomorrow will be fine although I may not be able to interact post at a time. But continue anyway, as time permits, and I'll catch up if need be.

I should mention that Ezekiel 37-39 is a concurrent prophecy with the 70 weeks. I don't know if you've considered it but if not you may want to review the text noting that there is a gathering of all Israel, a period of relative peace, another scattering of Israel into captivity and finally the destruction of Gog and everlasting peace.

Good night, James. It's been a pleasure.

325

News Item9/30/14 11:41 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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verse 24-
Seventy sevens are decreed about your people and your holy city
He is answering Daniel about Verse 17 (make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate.)
Your people - Daniel's people he was praying about....All Israel.
your holy city - Jerusalem
These Daniel was praying for specifically.

Then God reveals His purpose for eternity on what He is going to do.
to finish the transgressin -
to put an end to sin -
and to atone for iniquity -
to bring in everlasting righteousness-
to seal both vision and profit -
and to anoint a most Holy one. -

Will continue tomorrow Lord willing.

324

News Item9/30/14 11:34 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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James Thomas wrote:
This is not Daniel speaking here. We are in effect standing by Daniel listening too, as we read these words.
No real objections have appeared as of yet into what you have presented from what I can see.
....24-27 next.
Agreed. Still with you.
323

News Item9/30/14 11:18 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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Verse 23-
At the beginning of your pleas for mercy - Daniel's prayer

a word went out - God Spoke and gave it to Gabriel

and I have come to tell it to you - Gabriel the messenger from God.

for you are greatly loved - WOW!

Therefore - ( a word that discerns the effect of what has just been said.....meaning "the cause" preceeds) consider the word and understand the vision.
Consider The word and the vision - The Seventy sevens or the Seventy weeks in which Gabriel is the speaker and Daniel is a listener.
He asks Daniel to consider the word.....not to decide on if he believes but to meditate on the truth about to be revealed to you.

We have a spiritual being "Gabriel" presenting a Holy decree from The Holy God who is Spirit to a human being who's spirit has been quickened but yet it must be explained to Daniel. Hence the verse 22 "He made me understand."

This must be put into our thinking before going to 24-27. This is not Daniel speaking here. We are in effect standing by Daniel listening too, as we read these words.

No real objections have appeared as of yet into what you have presented from what I can see.

....24-27 next.

322

News Item9/30/14 11:05 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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You've summed up well God's mind through v23. And yes, Gabriel was sent to answer Daniel's prayers and more which he didn't appeal for.... a peak at what was in store for his people until the end of days.

Continue as time permits. I'm with you, brother.

321

News Item9/30/14 10:39 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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I have no problem being open minded...
Verse 3-19 Daniel goes to the Lord God in prayer and confession for the current situation that Israel is in. Daniel details the sin of Israel and the greatness of God and His righteous judgment.
Asks for mercy for The Lord God's own sake...not his own. Humbleness presented in a clear fashion.
Daniel is praying about what has happened and what is happening and why it has happened and simply asking for mercy.
This is a cresendo of humble prayer leading to the focal point of the object of what is the desire on his heart.
"Now therefore".....Daniels prayer being the presentation of facts of the current situation.....I will ask the following........."make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate."

Verse 20-23 The Lord God answers Daniel through Gabriel.
Therefore consider the word and understand the vision. So Daniel is provided with what He has asked about......
........."make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate."

....and possibly more? Can you hear God saying "You only asked for this much.....but im going to reveal to you what you did not ask......Like in the case of Solomon.
Please forgive the brevity on such a wonderful prayer that it in itself can be discussed at length.

320

News Item9/30/14 10:13 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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James Thomas wrote:
Lurker,
I have followed your words and read the texts and have seen how the pattern fits. I can see the flaw of having simply a historical view of Scripture as well. In short, I see your view and would say it is one I could agree with.
Perfect, James. All I hope for is an open mind.
James Thomas wrote:
But please allow me to express some possible questions by going through Daniel 9.
So in trying to understand the verses in Daniel 9:24-27..im going to start at 9:1 with a focus on identifying what "we know" then work to what we don't. Please call me out on anything that you see differently.
Verse 1-2 Daniel speaks on reading Jeremiah and perceiving a time defined as seventy years before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem.
The subject being the end of the desolations. The time being 70 years. It happened with the end of captivity so this was not "The end" to desolations in all of eternity but in the current one.
So far so good?
verse 3-19 in next post.
Good so far. The desolations was specific to Jerusalem during the captivity and would end when captivity was led captive.
319

News Item9/30/14 9:55 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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Brothers,
I appreciate all of the comments the past few days. I really am thankful to you brothers for having the gifts that you all have and I have benefited greatly from reading your posts.
Lurker, when you said,
"Not everyone has the same convictions..." You summed it up well.

Lurker,
I have followed your words and read the texts and have seen how the pattern fits. I can see the flaw of having simply a historical view of Scripture as well. In short, I see your view and would say it is one I could agree with.

But please allow me to express some possible questions by going through Daniel 9.
So in trying to understand the verses in Daniel 9:24-27..im going to start at 9:1 with a focus on identifying what "we know" then work to what we don't. Please call me out on anything that you see differently.
Verse 1-2 Daniel speaks on reading Jeremiah and perceiving a time defined as seventy years before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem.
The subject being the end of the desolations. The time being 70 years. It happened with the end of captivity so this was not "The end" to desolations in all of eternity but in the current one.
So far so good?

verse 3-19 in next post.

318

News Item9/28/14 10:33 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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Rodney K. wrote:
Unless you are still alive at our LORD's return. "Even so..."
Thank you all for this discussion. I haven't followed very closely because I have been waiting until yall were finished. God bless.
Thanks, Rodney. Welcome to the SA board.
317

News Item9/28/14 8:02 PM
Rodney K. | Tennessee  Contact via emailFind all comments by Rodney K.
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Lurker wrote:
...I suppose I'll go to my grave without ever fully quenching my thirst but God knows what He's doing.
God bless.
Unless you are still alive at our LORD's return. "Even so..."

Thank you all for this discussion. I haven't followed very closely because I have been waiting until yall were finished. God bless.

316

News Item9/28/14 7:03 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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John UK wrote:
Bro, and fellow pilgrim,
I may not be able to take part in this discussion through lack of knowledge, but know that I read the interaction and hope to gain some edification from it. I just wanted to let you know that, lest you felt it was fruitless, and I guess some others will feel the same.
I appreciate you saying that, bro, and I understand. Not everyone has the same convictions in their service to God and I believe He ordained it to be so. Just like building a house requires many different disciplines, so does building God's house require many different passions and abilities.

It's interesting when God first set it my heart to read the bible, I started at the beginning like reading a book. After a while I became intrigued by the creation account phrase "evening and the morning" and did a phrase search which led me to....

Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the "evening and the morning" which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

From that moment on I was hooked. I had to understand the prophets and how they interlace with the Revelation and NT citations and events. I suppose I'll go to my grave without ever fully quenching my thirst but God knows what He's doing.

God bless.

315

News Item9/28/14 5:24 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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Lurker wrote:
Thanks John.
Bro, and fellow pilgrim,

I may not be able to take part in this discussion through lack of knowledge, but know that I read the interaction and hope to gain some edification from it. I just wanted to let you know that, lest you felt it was fruitless, and I guess some others will feel the same.

314

News Item9/28/14 2:41 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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James Thomas wrote:
Lurker
On a little vacation now so my time is short for the next few days. Thank you for your response and I would see our Lord working through a design, not haphazardly. I desire to read the scriptures and think on what you have presented in the next few days.
Blessings to you
Enjoy your time off, James. I've set a lot on your plate to consider and it will take some time to absorb and no doubt you'll have questions, objections or criticisms. Let me know, I'll be here.

. . .

Thanks John.

313

News Item9/28/14 9:30 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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James Thomas wrote:
Lurker
On a little vacation now so my time is short for the next few days. Thank you for your response and I would see our Lord working through a design, not haphazardly. I desire to read the scriptures and think on what you have presented in the next few days.
Blessings to you
Thanks to both brothers for your exchange!

Have a nice break, James.

312

News Item9/28/14 12:11 AM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
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Lurker

On a little vacation now so my time is short for the next few days. Thank you for your response and I would see our Lord working through a design, not haphazardly. I desire to read the scriptures and think on what you have presented in the next few days.
Blessings to you

311

News Item9/27/14 1:40 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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Let's test the idea the Babylonian captivity is a pattern.

Let's assume the pattern began at Acts 8:1 and ends when Jesus appeared to Paul on Damascus Road when the day of the Lord began (I've already shown that a day of the Lord was in progress during the time Paul penned the Romans letter). The day of the Lord ends when the accepted time, the day of salvation begins when the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.

Next, take the pattern and the Acts text beginning with Paul's calling on Damascus Road and overlay it on Revelation 19:11 thru 20:6. Was the appearing of He who sits atop the white horse preceded by a Babylonian captivity? Was a day of the Lord (judgment) in progress? Was Satan bruised under His feet shortly as Paul wrote in Romans 16:20? Yes, yes and yes.

Now, lets apply the seventy weeks. The first seven (day of the Lord) began on Damascus Road and ended when the disciples were first called by a new name (Is 62:2). Also, when He appears on a white horse until His temporal reign begins. Hence, Messiah appeared at the end of the 7th week which is what the text actually says. The 62 weeks correspond to the reign of Christ and the 70th with the reign of Gog which ends with the great white throne judgment and the resurrection at Daniel 12:1-3.

310

News Item9/26/14 11:33 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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No presuppositions is the best way to let God be your teacher. After all, He is the only infallible teacher. I make no claim to be a teacher but I am more than happy to share what I believe God has taught me. Whether it makes sense or not, you can decide.

Getting to it. What does every interpretation of Daniel's 70 weeks have in common? They all begin somewhere between 516BCE and 445BCE. They are all locked into the historical hermeneutic. But let me demonstrate again that the historic Babylonian captivity was also given as a pattern of future tribulations. Look up these verses. Acts 13:40-41. Now the source: Habakkuk 1:5. Now read on to the end of the chapter for context. Did Luke or Paul mess up? Is the HS a proof-texter? I don't believe so.

One more point; read the Song of Moses at Deut 32. It begins at Israel's entering their inheritance and ends when God cast off the Jews and turned to the Gentiles established by Paul quoting v43 at Rom 15:10 indicating it was fulfilled in his day. Also, the provoking of the Jews to jealousy (32:21) is clearly seen at Acts 13:45, Rom 11:11.

Strange that God skipped over more than 600 years from the time He hid His face from the Jews (32:20) until Paul's calling? Yes, if interpreted historically. But if given as a pattern, no.

309

News Item9/26/14 9:03 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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I appreciate the time you are giving to this as I know the time necessary to provide the feedback you are providing is not brief.

I even hate to use the term "view" on this topic. I seem to be better at seeing what it cannot be clearer than what it is.
What I am presenting is what I have been able to perceive. And I see that defining some of the variables are necessary to be able to attach yourself to a "position".
I'm just glad the preaching I had been exposed to in the past sounded like the teacher from Charlie Brown at times on this topic so I really come into this with no honest presuppositions.

308

News Item9/26/14 8:14 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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James Thomas wrote:
Cant the 70 weeks be complete? With understanding of desolation as I have presented?
Thank you, James. You've been very patient in helping me understand your view.

In answer to your last question; no.... because the 2nd resurrection (Dan 12:1), the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:15) and the great white throne judgment (Rev 20:11) are what brings the 70th week to an end and begins the final day of the Lord's vengeance. This is clear in 12:11-12 in that from the abomination of desolation (midst of the 70th week) there is 1290 figurative days to the end of the tribulation yet another 45 figurative days (duration of the day of the Lord) till God pours His Spirit out on all flesh (quickens our mortal bodies) after the pattern of Pentecost. This eliminates any possibility of a 2000+ year gap after the abomination of desolation.

In summary, you see Messiah confirming the covenant at 9:27, no gap during the 70th week, the resurrection at 12:1 concurrent with the 7th trumpet and the great white throne judgment. If I've got any of this wrong, please let me know. But if this is right, I trust you see that there are some issues to overcome. I said there was a solution to these issues and I'll elaborate in my next post.

307

News Item9/26/14 1:36 PM
James Thomas | Florida  Find all comments by James Thomas
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cont.
So I ask; if not the book of life, what?
The Gospel itself.
Gentiles are now in....Jews are now out.
The gospel concealed to them but open to the Gentiles(remember the Gentiles are all other nations not just a people group but all others).

Now can a Jew be saved during this time?
Yes
Can we say that The Jews are still as a whole out? Yes

Wasn't confining the Jews in unbelief when God turned to the Gentiles effectively the same as sealing the "vision and prophecy" to Daniel's people?
Exactly! And we are still there, correct?

When? until the last day.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:44
John 6:54 LAST DAY
THE LAST DAY! (Sorry little off our current direction but...secret rapture?Looks like Jesus said the last day..3 times here in John.)

In which He(God)opens the book of the truth to the Jews.
Rom 11:32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Cant the 70 weeks be complete? With understanding of desolation as I have presented?

306
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